Vector Storm e-bike Frame 299€ / Parts WORLDWIDE

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Jul 19 2014 11:08am

nieles wrote:hi arthur,

first off, very nice bike design! i like it a lot.

could you comment on the weather/water proofness of the battery compartment?

i live in the rainy part of europe, so if i use the bike as a commuter it will be used in the rain.
will the batteries stay dry?
Thank you Nieles,

we can make the side covers without ventilation holes so the bike can ride under heavy rain ) The option with ventilation holes on a side cpvers is fine for light rains, just few drops can go through, nothing bad will happend with a bike ass all inside components and connentions are sealed in they own cases or heat shrink!
Enpro wrote:So how much does it weigh?
The frame is around 9kg, the rest is up to you. Heviest component I believe is a bettery. The more kilometers you want to go the more batteries you will need. One Lipo 4S (14.8V) 5Ah is around 0.5 kg.

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Jul 23 2014 3:40am

Maby you guys have some more wishes or ideas how to make this frame of bike even better? :roll:

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Captain Andrew » Jul 29 2014 5:26pm

Do you equip your bikes with rear derailleur to be able to comfortably pedaling when I don't want to use electric power? Rear derailleur is present on some photos, on others - not. If yes, will the chain jiggle on the knolls? Have you solved this widespread issue in some way?

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Jul 29 2014 6:34pm

Captain Andrew wrote:Do you equip your bikes with rear derailleur to be able to comfortably pedaling when I don't want to use electric power? Rear derailleur is present on some photos, on others - not. If yes, will the chain jiggle on the knolls? Have you solved this widespread issue in some way?

as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by 2old » Jul 29 2014 11:10pm

Killer price for a frame of that quality and from my limited experience with ebikes and fairly substantial investment of time in pedal-only mountain bikes, your prices are exemplary.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Captain Andrew » Jul 30 2014 11:53am

Artur wrote: as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)
Hm, do you believe that all experienced users are like you? I have 6 kW config and I spend 3000-6000$. I'm pedaling very often when riding in the parks, also with my friends, who don't have electric bikes, and even when I don't want to capture the attention of surrounding people, summary 15-20% of time.
It's a bit strange to ask about "some more wishes or ideas how to make this frame of bike even better?", and in second post try to persuade that option what will make you bikes better is not needed..
But returning back to your reply, I'm very happy that you have this option also with strong springs that prevents chain to jiggle even during jumps. Believe me, it's very important for many users. Wish you every success with your project!

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by RLT » Jul 30 2014 2:50pm

NICE!!!

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Jul 31 2014 6:21pm

Captain Andrew wrote:
Artur wrote: as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)
Hm, do you believe that all experienced users are like you? I have 6 kW config and I spend 3000-6000$. I'm pedaling very often when riding in the parks, also with my friends, who don't have electric bikes, and even when I don't want to capture the attention of surrounding people, summary 15-20% of time.
It's a bit strange to ask about "some more wishes or ideas how to make this frame of bike even better?", and in second post try to persuade that option what will make you bikes better is not needed..
But returning back to your reply, I'm very happy that you have this option also with strong springs that prevents chain to jiggle even during jumps. Believe me, it's very important for many users. Wish you every success with your project!
Andrew, I just assumed that people who buy this bike will by it not to pedal :) at least a lot. I mean I don't really enjoy pedaling ebike with all this extra weight plus drag force from magnets on a hub motor. For example I have ultra light road bike, and all mount mtb, and my electric bike. So when I go for a ride with my friends who don't have ebike I just take one of my not electric bike, and pedal it absolutely the same as everyone. But if I ride to work or shop or cinema, I don't wanna pedal at all to not get sweat :)) So for me personally it kind of "all or nothing" )) But I had couple of times when I have to pedal on my ebike to save some kwh on a steep hills or my battery was totally out of charge, or when I pretend pedaling on a speed 25-30 mph riding next to cop's car )) That's very funny )) Few times I was stopped by cops but I just switch the bike into 20% of it max speed and they were out of they mind how could I pedal so fast on my own ))

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Jul 31 2014 6:36pm

RLT wrote:NICE!!!


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proper159   1 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by proper159 » Aug 02 2014 8:06pm

Artur wrote:
Captain Andrew wrote:Do you equip your bikes with rear derailleur to be able to comfortably pedaling when I don't want to use electric power? Rear derailleur is present on some photos, on others - not. If yes, will the chain jiggle on the knolls? Have you solved this widespread issue in some way?

as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)

Some Color combinations:
Image
This is where you haven't done your research. Pedalling on an ebike like this is crucial for longer distances. I pedal all of the time on my Stealth and for 70 km trips I have to really think about how much wattage I'm reducing by being in the right gear and pedalling the right amount of cadence. At different gears I'm able to play with my torque and acceleration in incredible ways especially to beat out cars chasing me down. This is not a Stealth killer. ..you are going after a different market.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Archer » Aug 02 2014 9:40pm

Improve this e-bike by improving some of the weaker areas of the Stealth.

1.Use Jagwire brake and shift cable.Ripcord or better Jagwire.
2.Use the Speakon charge connector.Much better!
3.Make sure the seat post frame area is stout enough.
4.Offer This Battery:Like Allex at Stealth forum is using.Icing on the cake!!
84v, 35Ah, 3000Wh, 12.5Kg
5.Improve water/rain penetration resistance.
6.Offer a manual with step by step/pics/instructions etc for everything that will require maintenance.

Good luck! Tim

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Rodney64 » Aug 02 2014 10:50pm

Nice looking frame Arthur. Good to see more DYI frames coming along.

I've built up a couple of bikes. Do the side panels add to the frame integrity? Can the bike be ridden without side panels.

Yes I agree with snelman that it's important to have shock adjustment to run a full range of wheels to get ground clearance. Current setup on the Phasor only gives 12 inches under the BB. I'm currently running 17 inch motor cycle wheels laced into a cromotor. Only disappointment here is it's a single speed freewheel. Dropouts look good too.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Rix » Aug 03 2014 9:56am

Enpro wrote:So how much does it weigh?
Came over from your invitation on the Stealth thread, Really like this bike. Looks neat, seems functional. In addition to what Enpro asked about the weight, I would like to know how much the Vector weighs, what the shock to travel ratio is, how wide the frame is, swingarm width, height from the bottom bracket to the top of the seat post, and seat post to head tube. With those numbers I can gauged how this bike would feel if I was sitting on it and what my motor options are. I know the BB moves a little from the single suspension pivot location, so understand that measurement would be approximate. Hyena, Snellman, and Rodney all touched on the dual shock set up. If the leverage ratio is higher than say 3.3 to 1, on a single pivot frame all, but the biggest freeride downhill shocks, would be too light for guys my size, 110kg (250 Pounds) so instead of a dual shock option, may consider a motorcycle rear shock such as KTMS PDS system. The price is on par with a high end MTB shock and spring from Fox Racing. Or save a couple of hundred bucks and go with Works racing MC shock. BTW, why the two piece dropouts? A single piece that wide would be indestructible for the derailieur hangar as it wouldn't ever brake and give you more room to fit a larger bolt for more axle clamping force.

///Edit/// I see the frame is 9kg.
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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Aug 03 2014 3:00pm

proper159 wrote:
Artur wrote:
Captain Andrew wrote:Do you equip your bikes with rear derailleur to be able to comfortably pedaling when I don't want to use electric power? Rear derailleur is present on some photos, on others - not. If yes, will the chain jiggle on the knolls? Have you solved this widespread issue in some way?

as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)

Some Color combinations:
Image
This is where you haven't done your research. Pedalling on an ebike like this is crucial for longer distances. I pedal all of the time on my Stealth and for 70 km trips I have to really think about how much wattage I'm reducing by being in the right gear and pedalling the right amount of cadence. At different gears I'm able to play with my torque and acceleration in incredible ways especially to beat out cars chasing me down. This is not a Stealth killer. ..you are going after a different market.
Thank you for comment!
The Vector range is more then 100km, so with 70 km trips you dont have to worry about reducing wattage consumption :) with rear derailleur you will have up to 9 gears if you need them, and you can set max speed and wattage as you want. I guess I'm too lazy pedaling on e-bike. In pedaling only if I'm out of battery, or want to warm up )

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Aug 03 2014 3:16pm

Archer wrote:Improve this e-bike by improving some of the weaker areas of the Stealth.

1.Use Jagwire brake and shift cable.Ripcord or better Jagwire.
2.Use the Speakon charge connector.Much better!
3.Make sure the seat post frame area is stout enough.
4.Offer This Battery:Like Allex at Stealth forum is using.Icing on the cake!!
84v, 35Ah, 3000Wh, 12.5Kg
5.Improve water/rain penetration resistance.
6.Offer a manual with step by step/pics/instructions etc for everything that will require maintenance.

Good luck! Tim

Thank you for comment!

1. Is it mechanical brakes? We are using 4 piston caliper Magura or Shimano brakes with 203mm rotor at the moment, works perfect with huge stopping power!
2. We have ordered special charger connector with cover. Is there something special with your charger port?
3. We made FEM simulations, everything was good even for 250 kg rider ) In real world we made tests on frame too, everything good so far :)
4. We want to build 84V,30Ah from LiFe A123 elements. In our testing frames we using LiPo, and 18650 elements :)
5. Working on this, but it hard to find compromise between air cooling and water resistance :) But I think we will find the good solution.
6. Good idea! I think it would be helpful :)

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Aug 03 2014 3:28pm

Rodney64 wrote:Nice looking frame Arthur. Good to see more DYI frames coming along.

I've built up a couple of bikes. Do the side panels add to the frame integrity? Can the bike be ridden without side panels.

Yes I agree with snelman that it's important to have shock adjustment to run a full range of wheels to get ground clearance. Current setup on the Phasor only gives 12 inches under the BB. I'm currently running 17 inch motor cycle wheels laced into a cromotor. Only disappointment here is it's a single speed freewheel. Dropouts look good too.
Bike panels are changeable, so if user will brake them he can order new covers. Or you can ride without covers. Also bike owner can change panels to another one with another color.
The rear shock adjustment allowed to use shocks from 190 to 240mm of travel.
I dont think single speed freewheel is disappointment if you have cromotor ;)))
Here is a video of bike climbing with cromotor:
As you see no pedaling required ;)

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proper159   1 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by proper159 » Aug 03 2014 10:24pm

Artur wrote:
proper159 wrote:
Artur wrote:
Captain Andrew wrote:Do you equip your bikes with rear derailleur to be able to comfortably pedaling when I don't want to use electric power? Rear derailleur is present on some photos, on others - not. If yes, will the chain jiggle on the knolls? Have you solved this widespread issue in some way?

as experienced users I have to say with electrical motor 99% of time you would not pedal ) not because laziness but because ebike weight.. pedals are here to make it as a bike ) Can you imagine yourself pedaling on 30-40 mph speed? :)) pedals here are more in case if you are out of battery ;) I dont think somebody will spend 3000-6000$ for a powerful e bike to pedal it :)
But returning back to your question: rear derailleur is optional. For fixed gear we are using chain tighter with pretty strong springs, so the chain don't jiggle even during jumps :)

Some Color combinations:
Image
This is where you haven't done your research. Pedalling on an ebike like this is crucial for longer distances. I pedal all of the time on my Stealth and for 70 km trips I have to really think about how much wattage I'm reducing by being in the right gear and pedalling the right amount of cadence. At different gears I'm able to play with my torque and acceleration in incredible ways especially to beat out cars chasing me down. This is not a Stealth killer. ..you are going after a different market.
Thank you for comment!
The Vector range is more then 100km, so with 70 km trips you dont have to worry about reducing wattage consumption :) with rear derailleur you will have up to 9 gears if you need them, and you can set max speed and wattage as you want. I guess I'm too lazy pedaling on e-bike. In pedaling only if I'm out of battery, or want to warm up )
How big is the battery on that version? 30 ah? I would rather not have a derailleur. If you could use sVoxx and put a motorcycle rim in the back with Shinko tires plus 30 ah... then you may have a winner for 4-6 k.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Allex » Aug 04 2014 2:19am

Yeah except that vBoxx cost around 2000USD so the bike will end up at 8k


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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Aug 04 2014 4:45am

Allex wrote:Yeah except that vBoxx cost around 2000USD so the bike will end up at 8k
Agree with you Allex, it is nice peace of engineering, but we wanted to make bike as affordable as only possible. We want to make cheapest of 3 model under 3000 $ price.
Plus we can save some weight, I dont know how heavy vBoxx is :roll:

proper159 wrote:How big is the battery on that version? 30 ah? I would rather not have a derailleur. If you could use sVoxx and put a motorcycle rim in the back with Shinko tires plus 30 ah... then you may have a winner for 4-6 k.
On my prototype I use 20S 20Ah LiPo, but there is space inside for additional 5Ah and with modified side covers even 15Ah more. We want to make for final version 84V 28Ah from A123.
Concerning motorcycle rim, they can be easly be mounted on a bike :) But me personally happy with my DH rims 40mm wide with Nokian tires 3.0 :)
made_in_the_alps_legacy wrote:too nice not to suscribe 8)
Thanks :)

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Dropouts can handle 350Hm :)
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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by bigsi » Aug 06 2014 3:07pm

Following. Looks good
specialized s-works enduro carbon running 18FET Lyen. crystalyte 5304v3 running 105v 15ah....
I build quick release custom batteries to any size and shape. Including custom installs.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by chriss » Aug 12 2014 3:01pm

Have you considered a mid drive motor setup as opposed to the hub motor?

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by chriss » Aug 12 2014 3:58pm

Artur, you say the Vector is also designed for city-use. But how do you get it street-legal? I would surely get caught by the police on the very first day of riding the Vector as a bike because neither does it look like a bike (attention grabbing) nor do the specs qualify it as a bike. To be safe in the city, I would need turning lights front and back, a proper back light, a horn, a license plate and registration. All of which would limit the benefits as a bike and make it much easier and cheaper to convert a Moped to EV.
New to the ebike world, so I may be missing something here, but $6000 for an offroad only ebike? How is that economical? Anyway, it does look very good.

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by bikerloosey » Aug 12 2014 5:02pm

I would think he has a restriction in place which is common practice for all ebikes. Similar to governor on a moto bike.

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Artur   100 kW

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Re: Vector. New 5.4 kW ebike from scratch.

Post by Artur » Aug 13 2014 7:04am

chriss wrote:Artur, you say the Vector is also designed for city-use. But how do you get it street-legal? I would surely get caught by the police on the very first day of riding the Vector as a bike because neither does it look like a bike (attention grabbing) nor do the specs qualify it as a bike. To be safe in the city, I would need turning lights front and back, a proper back light, a horn, a license plate and registration. All of which would limit the benefits as a bike and make it much easier and cheaper to convert a Moped to EV.
New to the ebike world, so I may be missing something here, but $6000 for an offroad only ebike? How is that economical? Anyway, it does look very good.
Very good question! We were thinking about it before creating a Vector.

1. Vector has very bright front and rear light. Rider can install any additional equipment (horn...)

2. Licence plate and registration are necessary in different country and states under different bike power and speed parameters. Here in EU you dont need any registration for ebike under 250W (750W for USA), or you can register it as powerful e bike and ride as moped up to 45 km/h(you will need motor driving license), or register it as a motorcycle with no speed limitation. In vector you have possibilities to set up 3 different speed and power limit for 3 speed switch. So as an example you can make your first speed limited to your local ebike legal power and speed law, and ride a bike in a places where you can be stopped by a police. I am riding my bike for more then a year in a big city and had only one ticket for 10 euro for riding on a pedestrian zone :) I believe the main rule here - ride safe and you will not get any trouble with law.
$.

3. 6000$ it is the price for e bike with best available offroad components which are expensive, but still it is 4000$ less than stealth bomber that has less power and with some cheap bike parts. City version of Vector will be with small travel front fork and less expensive shock and motor, so the final price will be around 3000$.
chriss wrote:Have you considered a mid drive motor setup as opposed to the hub motor?
Mid drive motor stole free space from frame needed for battery, bms, controller and other electronics, plus hub motor is more reliable and is well air cooled on a back wheel.

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