CHEAP NEW ORIGINAL 18650 BATTERY CELLS AND PACKS

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
Post Reply
miuan   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 990
Joined: Nov 26 2009 4:16am
Location: Slovakia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by miuan » Jan 23 2015 9:40am

mlt34 wrote:
miuan wrote:I received 200 samsung 29E cells from tumich. The shipment arrived quickly and the processing of my order was equally as quick. All of the 5 packs were exceptionally well packed and charged to exactly 36V. The cells were all correctly terminated. I must say I am very happy with my purchase, just need to find a 20S 35A BMS with effective current limiting. Any ideas where to look? A cheap option would be this. Any experience?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shi ... 12978.html
people seem to be happy with that one. I haven't used it, but it looks similar to my BesTechPower D131 BMS from my picture posted above,which is an awesome bulletproof BMS, albeit twice the price of that aliexpress one.
cool, so I will try it out. guess it will come with no instructions, so maybe you can tell me which is the correct order of connections. first B+ and B-, then balance plugs?

User avatar
mlt34   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1244
Joined: Jan 19 2011 12:23pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by mlt34 » Jan 23 2015 2:36pm

That's how I did it, but I'm not sure if that's a requirement. Dnmun is the best one to ask. He knows those BMS's like the back of his hand.
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3228
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by Allex » Jan 23 2015 7:49pm

4.25 V+-0.025 on that BMS
So you can have 4.275V in worst case when fully charged
Nice to know that it will slowly destroy the cells :(
Or can they reprogram it for lower values like 4.15?

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 24 2015 7:03am

You would have to order a lot of bms's to get a custom hvc and balane point. But it's not that bad, it still balances to 4.2 so cell shouldn't be too high for a longer time.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

cwah   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4214
Joined: Jul 24 2011 5:42am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by cwah » Jan 24 2015 9:10am

Do you sell enclosure and NCR18650BE cells?

Also, what's the shipping cost for 200 cells in the uk? Do I have to pay customs?

Thanks
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

User avatar
tumich   100 W

100 W
Posts: 209
Joined: May 28 2014 3:28am
Location: EU

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by tumich » Jan 24 2015 9:48am

cwah wrote:Do you sell enclosure and NCR18650BE cells?

Also, what's the shipping cost for 200 cells in the uk? Do I have to pay customs?

Thanks
From Panasonic's only NCR18650PF. More on priw.
My ebikes:
1. Sur ron

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

miuan   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 990
Joined: Nov 26 2009 4:16am
Location: Slovakia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by miuan » Jan 26 2015 4:09am

Allex wrote:4.25 V+-0.025 on that BMS
So you can have 4.275V in worst case when fully charged
Nice to know that it will slowly destroy the cells :(
Or can they reprogram it for lower values like 4.15?
I will have the BMS programmed to 4.225V.
You can still charge the battery to a lower voltage if you want.

The Mighty Volt   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2209
Joined: Oct 17 2009 9:35am
Location: Republic of Ireland.

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by The Mighty Volt » Jan 26 2015 5:08am

Hi Tumich, what do you have in stock right now and how much are you asking for it, thank you.

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3228
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by Allex » Jan 26 2015 5:22am

Just ordered 80 cells NCR18650PF for a new build.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9168
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 26 2015 9:44pm

Allex does that mean 72v 11ah pack to be use at 22amps. ?

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by dnmun » Jan 26 2015 10:56pm

miuan wrote:
Allex wrote:4.25 V+-0.025 on that BMS
So you can have 4.275V in worst case when fully charged
Nice to know that it will slowly destroy the cells :(
Or can they reprogram it for lower values like 4.15?
I will have the BMS programmed to 4.225V.
You can still charge the battery to a lower voltage if you want.
you should not have your BMS you order from Bestechpower set with a balance voltage of 4.225V whcih i don't think they offer in any case.

there is no problem having the HVC set to 4.25V since it is unusual for a cell to reach it when it has been balanced already and has not been damaged or have one cell short out a lot of charge.

most people have no clue how the BMS functions so they select some obscure rational for saying why that is proof of why a BMS is not useful.

if the cell reaches the HVC of 4.25v then it cuts off the charging and you have to discharge the battery back down to 4.05V in order to reset the charging.

the only time a cell will reach the HVC is when you initially balance the pack and the cells are all so far out of balance.

once the pack has been balanced and has several cycles to bring them all to the same state of charge then the only time it would hit the HVC after that is if there is a problem during the charge.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9168
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 26 2015 11:15pm

Dmnun please explain your charging practice after riding and why ?

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3228
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by Allex » Jan 27 2015 3:51am

999zip999 wrote:Allex does that mean 72v 11ah pack to be use at 22amps. ?
14s4p
I will try them to cope with 25A peak, about 2C per cell. If they don't hold up I will add one more P, rest will probably go to a "Neato Botvac".
dnmun, did not get your post. Should we buy from best or not?
There is always cell drift during a charge, some of them will always charge up faster. So if I understand it right, the BMS starts to discharge a cell only when it hits 4.25+- This could be a little harsch on them.

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 27 2015 4:39am

No, allex, it doesn't work that way. It has separate trip point's for balancing, and for HVC.

You see, when the cell gets to 4.2 V, it will start bleeding, but the charging won't turn of, because the bleeding would stop immediately, and this process would go on and on. But if that cell that first got to the 4.2 V and started bleeding was very far from the rest of the cells, it would get to 4.25 V , and then the charging would stop, because the cells are out of balance and you should do something. But in normal conditions, cells would bleed until they are the same, and if there is a little difference, maybe some cell would start to bleed first, but would only reach like 4.21 or something like that, but after some time, all cells will be balanced equally.

And panasonic PF is rated at 10A, so for a 4p pack you can draw 40A, but you will see a voltage drop. 2C is not a problem for those cells.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

miuan   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 990
Joined: Nov 26 2009 4:16am
Location: Slovakia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC FROM 2,69$ ea

Post by miuan » Jan 27 2015 4:45am

dnmun wrote:
miuan wrote:
Allex wrote:4.25 V+-0.025 on that BMS
So you can have 4.275V in worst case when fully charged
Nice to know that it will slowly destroy the cells :(
Or can they reprogram it for lower values like 4.15?
I will have the BMS programmed to 4.225V.
You can still charge the battery to a lower voltage if you want.
you should not have your BMS you order from Bestechpower set with a balance voltage of 4.225V whcih i don't think they offer in any case.
there is no problem having the HVC set to 4.25V since it is unusual for a cell to reach it when it has been balanced already and has not been damaged or have one cell short out a lot of charge.
I don't order from Bestechpower. The seller is Leo@Greentime who offers to adjust both discharge current and HVC at customer's request.
4.25V is useless for me since there are 8 cells paralleled and I charge at mere 4A. I am manually balancing the cells upon arrival.
Are you sure the cells start bleeding at 4.2V? It would be more practical if the bleeding started a bit sooner.

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 27 2015 5:00am

Yes, cells start bleeding at 4.2, and hvc must be set higher than that, but 4.225 for HVC would probably work if your cells stay in balance well.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3228
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by Allex » Jan 27 2015 5:35am

My guess that at 10Amps they will be pretty hot and you will get around 2500Mah of 2900. But perhaps tumich know better, if he tried to discharge at 10A, what they can deliver.
Riba, yes this is what I ment in the first post. Some of the cells will always go beyond 4,2 and hit HVC at 4,25 during a charge. Charger usually works faster than the BMS can drain down cell row, or?

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 27 2015 6:00am

It does, but if the cells are at the same level, they will all charge equally, and they will all reach 4.2 V at the same time, and that is the max voltage that the charger inputs. So once they are balanced, no cell can be over 4.2 V, because the charger is set at 4.2V x number of cells in series.

Here is the graph with Panasonic PF (and lg mh1 and panasonic BE) at 10A:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/highamps/537-at%2010A.png

These cells actually deliver more mah at high rate than at 1C, because they get warm and drop their IR, so you get more capacity on 5A than on 3A. But Wh are probably the same or less at higher rate.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by dnmun » Jan 27 2015 9:55am

no, the charger does not push more current than the BMS can balance. i have my charger set so that the charger pushes the 175mA of balancing current at the final full charge voltage. as i said most don't understand how they work to balance a pack. few understand how the balancing chargers work either.

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 27 2015 10:36am

dnmun wrote:no, the charger does not push more current than the BMS can balance. i have my charger set so that the charger pushes the 175mA of balancing current at the final full charge voltage. as i said most don't understand how they work to balance a pack. few understand how the balancing chargers work either.
That's not true in case that one cell is at higher SOC, and for that cell balancing will happen before the final phase of charging when current drops enough. So than one cell will be balanced at 175ma, but the charger will be pushing full current since the CV phase hasn't been reached, and the voltage on that cell will rise until hvc event occurs and bms shuts down charging.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9168
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by 999zip999 » Jan 27 2015 12:15pm

Dnmun please explain your charging method after a ride.

User avatar
tumich   100 W

100 W
Posts: 209
Joined: May 28 2014 3:28am
Location: EU

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by tumich » Jan 27 2015 12:32pm

I recommend charging cells to 4,10-4,15V and cut when ~3,1V then life cycles of charge will be similar like producer declare ;)
My ebikes:
1. Sur ron

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by dnmun » Jan 27 2015 3:06pm

riba2233 wrote:
dnmun wrote:no, the charger does not push more current than the BMS can balance. i have my charger set so that the charger pushes the 175mA of balancing current at the final full charge voltage. as i said most don't understand how they work to balance a pack. few understand how the balancing chargers work either.
That's not true in case that one cell is at higher SOC, and for that cell balancing will happen before the final phase of charging when current drops enough. So than one cell will be balanced at 175ma, but the charger will be pushing full current since the CV phase hasn't been reached, and the voltage on that cell will rise until hvc event occurs and bms shuts down charging.
no, again this is misinformation. once the battery pack has been balanced initially all of the cells remain almost identical in SOC.

when charging all of the cells climb in voltage up to the same identical point. there is not one cell that somehow goes and overcharges while the others are charging.

the reason the HVC is there is to prevent the cells from overcharging in the event of cell failures where some are shorted and lose charge and force the other cells to reach HVC early. so the BMS in this case is fulfilling it's primary task to prevent damage when the pack has lost one cell or somehow has been damaged.

in normal operation, when charged, the pack will never have a cell reach or get close to the HVC. the highest any of my cells ever reach when i charge the 21S pack up is only 4.218/4.22V and i have 350mA of balancing current from 2 BMS balance boards to prevent it climbing higher.

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1847
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by riba2233 » Jan 27 2015 3:29pm

Thats what Ive said, in normal conditions hvc event is never going to occur, its there for fault etc.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

xenodius   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 488
Joined: Sep 03 2012 6:55pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: BRAND NEW CELLS 18650 LG/SAMSUNG/PANASONIC 11Ah/36V - 10

Post by xenodius » Jan 30 2015 1:01pm

Just bought 440 Samsung 29e cells. :mrgreen: Communication was great.

Post Reply