Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

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Andrewol   1 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Andrewol » Aug 04 2018 9:34am

Seems like it doesn't work under Apple platform.

Does anybody know why such a tiny board with few components is so expensive? Is it possible to make it as diy?

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by amberwolf » Aug 04 2018 2:02pm

If you want a DIY controller with similar capabilities, you can read up on all the various Lebowski controller build threads around the forum.

It may not actually cost less though, by the time you're done blowing up parts perfecting your powerstage. ;)

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Alan B » Aug 04 2018 8:36pm

The PhaseRunner has several boards very compactly arranged with quite a few parts packed in, a powerful processor and sophisticated control algorithms.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Aug 12 2018 12:34am

What sort of on/off switch can I use for the phaserunner? I'm only running a 14s pack with 40A peak

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Aug 12 2018 3:48am

Hi,

I building fast e-bikes with the Bafang ultra engine. The problem with this engine it's poor controller, and Bafang don't want it change it. So I am searching to the best replacement for that controller. I can also change some parts of the Bafang controller, but that is not so good solution. An external controller is better so the heat of the controller stay's out of the engine. (63V x 50A) 3000W

The phaserunner look very good to change with. The ultra motor deliver torque sens, shall this work with the compact field oriented controller?

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Aug 17 2018 8:01pm

:mrgreen:
Last edited by Dumsterdave on Aug 24 2018 2:13pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Aug 24 2018 2:13pm

I've been running an infineon CAv3 combo from em3ev and it's been loud, but runs great. I recently bought a phaserunner and swapped out the controller, went through the setup and now my bike accelerates painfully slow (but amazingly quiet). I'm only running 52v 40A on a 1500w leaf motor. What should my phaserunner settings be at to add a bit more torque? Or is it the CA that needs adjustment. If I lift the wheel of the ground and apply throttle, it accelerates very fast, but if I put it on the ground... Slow :(
I'm not doing regen (yet), have a grin slim half twist and running the latest firmware on the CA

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Sep 05 2018 4:42pm

As my phaserunner was always getting hot, I decided to add a heatsink to it.

I've decided to use copper because it has greater heat transfer than aluminium:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pg9eddwytk5kp ... 7.jpg?dl=0

Then I covered the whole controller with copper bar:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj9ysypbkk5p9 ... 4.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xh56a9bullubk ... 3.jpg?dl=0

I drilled few additional holes in case the copper bar are not enough and would add aluminium heatsink on top.

Will report later!
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 3:38am

How much power your motor use?

I also want to cool the phaserunner, for that I use the frame, alu and tita are good heat conductors. But there must be good contact between the phaserunner and the frame. That is why I would remove the paint from the frame. And then use a good heat conductor between the phaserunner and the frame. Heat fransfer pasta that they use for computer processor seems to me an idea. Maybe it washes away through water, so this has to be tested. Perhaps a copper plate can be used first, which ensures that the paste does not wash away. The notches with 6 deeper nuts are the heat source and filling them with pasta is better. The frame is the best cooling source. :idea:

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 6:52am

I want to connect the Phaserunner to the Bafang Ultra, the phasewires are ok, but the controlling cables not.
20180907_133723 (Groot).jpg

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 7:05am

These connector have the same connections and almost the same color, only the last is white/blue
20180907_135837 (Groot).jpg

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Sep 07 2018 7:18pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 3:38am
How much power your motor use?

I also want to cool the phaserunner, for that I use the frame, alu and tita are good heat conductors. But there must be good contact between the phaserunner and the frame. That is why I would remove the paint from the frame. And then use a good heat conductor between the phaserunner and the frame. Heat fransfer pasta that they use for computer processor seems to me an idea. Maybe it washes away through water, so this has to be tested. Perhaps a copper plate can be used first, which ensures that the paste does not wash away. The notches with 6 deeper nuts are the heat source and filling them with pasta is better. The frame is the best cooling source. :idea:
Yes using the frame is the plan as well. That's why there is a copper plate between the frame and the phaserunner.

I use max power. I put limit to 9999W :lol:
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Sep 10 2018 6:43am

What would be an optimal setting for field weakening on a 1500w 4T leaf motor running a 14s battery at 40A? I have my phase amps set to 90A now. I'd like to get a higher top speed without really murdering my efficiency.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 10 2018 8:53am

Test it.
Try 3,5,10,15,20 A

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Sep 11 2018 7:34am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 8:53am
Test it.
Try 3,5,10,15,20 A
Thanks

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Sep 15 2018 4:44pm

I maximised all contact area with the phaserunner heatsink and changed to aluminium bolt and rivet for maximum heat transfer to the bike frame:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ngtm2b1q273n ... 2.jpg?dl=0

The compression bolt between the 2 copper plates have also been changed to zinc as it has better heat transfer coefficient:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/56peik3b0kqiq ... 2.jpg?dl=0

So far I'm really impressed. I keep using the phaserunner on full power and it doesn't get hot. It does barely get warm... I was thinking to sand the copper plates and apply thermal paste but from these initial result it seems it won't be needed 8)
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Andrewol » Sep 29 2018 7:18am

amberwolf wrote:
Aug 04 2018 2:02pm
If you want a DIY controller with similar capabilities, you can read up on all the various Lebowski controller build threads around the forum.

It may not actually cost less though, by the time you're done blowing up parts perfecting your powerstage. ;)
I want similar controller for a reasonable price. The manufacturing cost for this, if made in bulk, I think should be not more than 10-15$. If you count how many people could potentially buy a replacement controller you could get much more profit if you sell it for affordable price. For current price nobody wants or can't afford to buy it and it's only remain a YouTube teaser for huge majority of riders.
Last edited by Andrewol on Sep 29 2018 6:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cycborg » Sep 29 2018 1:17pm

Andrewol wrote:
Sep 29 2018 7:18am
The manufacturing cost for this, if made in bulk, I think not more than 10-15$. If you count how many people could potentially buy a replacement controller you could get much more profit if you sell for affordable price.
I don’t understand why you’re wasting your time complaining on message boards when you could be executing this brilliant business plan and claiming the profits for yourself!

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Andrewol » Sep 29 2018 6:51pm

I'm not familiar with this. But If you could give me a schematic, layout and other stuff required for diy I could try.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cycborg » Sep 29 2018 10:01pm

Andrewol wrote:
Sep 29 2018 6:51pm
I'm not familiar with this. But If you could give me a schematic, layout and other stuff required for diy I could try.
In amberwolf's post that you just quoted, he encourages you to read up on the Lebowski controller, which provides exactly what you're asking for. He posted this nearly two months ago. What have you learned about the Lebowski controller during that time?

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Andrewol » Sep 30 2018 9:39am

Diy isn't the point here, but cheaper cost via diy.
Amberwolf wrote Lebowski controller may not cost less, than why bother with it?
Seems like there is no way to get such controller cheaper.
Btw, electric motors as well so expensive. This is the main reason why not many people wish to shift from internal combustion engines by now.
Pity that Tesla produces cars only).
Thanks for your advises.
Cheers.

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robbie   100 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by robbie » Oct 03 2018 12:36pm

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to let you all know that the Mac OS version of the PR software was (finally) fixed last night. Please go ahead and download the latest version of the software here;

http://www.ebikes.ca/downloads/?file=Ph ... ftware_Mac

You'll still have to manually allow your computer to run the software through System Preferences -> Security & Privacy and allow the .app to run. As we get more software written we'll get registered with apple..

I tested the SW this morning on Mojave, and it works there too. If you have any specific issues, please send an email to info AT ebikes.ca.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Sunder » Oct 03 2018 8:04pm

Andrewol wrote:
Sep 29 2018 7:18am
I want similar controller for a reasonable price. The manufacturing cost for this, if made in bulk, I think should be not more than 10-15$. If you count how many people could potentially buy a replacement controller you could get much more profit if you sell it for affordable price. For current price nobody wants or can't afford to buy it and it's only remain a YouTube teaser for huge majority of riders.
Everyone wants a free lunch.

In my first job 20 years ago, I provided technical support to one of the first virus scanning firewalls.

The circuit board including all components was about 80c. (All figures in USD).
Once it was inside a pretty case, it was $5
Printing a box and a manual made it about $35 cost to our company.
The device was sold to retailers for $100-$120 depending on volume, agreement and willingness to do in-store support
The RRP was $199.

The company claimed after all costs such as paying me to support users were included, the margin was about 10%. So about $10-12 profit per unit sold.

Even the retailer doesn't just make $99 to $79. They have rent, staff, inventory management, logistics etc.

If you think you can do better (without breaking the law by duplicating a copyrighted design), then you should go ahead with it. But I think you might find that you too want a healthy return on your efforts and risking of capital (What if you ordered a thousand units from China, and found that they were harder to sell than you thought?) and your price might not be much better.

The product has been around for a while. There are also viable alternatives for similar, higher and lower price. This is not a monopoly. The market is doing its job. If Justin thought he could make more profit by selling at a lower price, I'm sure he would.
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Oct 03 2018 8:43pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
Sep 10 2018 6:43am
What would be an optimal setting for field weakening on a 1500w 4T leaf motor running a 14s battery at 40A? I have my phase amps set to 90A now. I'd like to get a higher top speed without really murdering my efficiency.
Hey Dave, unfortunately it's not easy to predict what given amount of field weakening current is needed to achieve a certain boost to the top speed since it will be different for different motors. However, it's easy to just do it by increasing the amount in trial and error until you get the desired speed that you want while keeping an eye on the no-load current draw. So long as the no-load current at full throttle is less than 3-4 amps then the efficiency penalty won't be too bad, but if you see like 10 amps unloaded, then it's a sign that your wasting quite a bit of power (500 watts in this case) when you're at rpm which requires max field weakening.

Did you get a chance to try the values that jpc suggested to see what effect each one had?
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Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by neptronix » Oct 08 2018 10:07am

Dumsterdave wrote:
Sep 10 2018 6:43am
What would be an optimal setting for field weakening on a 1500w 4T leaf motor running a 14s battery at 40A? I have my phase amps set to 90A now. I'd like to get a higher top speed without really murdering my efficiency.
You need higher phase amps and battery amps for this motor than the controller can provide.
The 4T Leaf is a very very fast per volt winding. It makes power mostly with amps, not volts.

If you had a 5T, it'd be a different story because 72v / 40A would produce enough torque to hit the top speed without running tons of flux weakening or other trickery. On a 4T, 72v would normally hit 60mph/100km/h which is just too fast for the motor.
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