Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by rberger » Mar 25 2018 6:49pm

Excellent! I will try the MacOS version as soon as you release it. I was about to redo my auto-tuning anyway. Love seeing progress!
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by zro-1 » Mar 26 2018 7:09pm

This is exciting! Those are all very nice updates and features. I'll also be anxiously waiting for the Mac version. Thanks Justin!
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2018 3:31am

Here you go guys:

V1.0B4 Phaserunner Suite for MacOS: /s/x4jl2bosmqhnqzz/PhaseRunner_Software_Mac_v1.b4.zip?dl=0
EDIT Try https://www.ebikes.ca/downloads/PhaseRu ... b3.dmg.zip

V1.0B4 Phaserunner Suite for Linux: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dou1hs652go22 ... ar.gz?dl=0


The MacOS build hasn't been tested internally on any modern Mac devices, just on our old and slow dev computer. We'll get to that tomorrow but odds are that it should be fine so I've posted so we can get feedback from other users on other machines too.
Last edited by justin_le on Apr 01 2018 1:35am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated DL link
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Mar 27 2018 3:53am

Hello when it rains the controller stops working!!!

It just do 1 or 2 acceleration then I need to reset it but cutting the power off then on.

Any idea how to stop that? Why does it do that????


Thanks
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by district9prawn » Mar 27 2018 5:44am

I've been playing around a bit with the speed limiting mode to try and reduce drivetrain crunch on a mid drive. I've set the controller to torque AND speed limit mode (not one or the other) and have introduced a ramp time of about 350ms from 0 rpm to max motor rpm. Even in low gear acceleration is nowhere near that fast so it has negligible impact on throttle response but is enough to help reduce drivetrain slamming when the freewheels suddenly engage.
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Alan B » Mar 27 2018 9:23am

cwah wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:53am
Hello when it rains the controller stops working!!!

It just do 1 or 2 acceleration then I need to reset it but cutting the power off then on.

Any idea how to stop that? Why does it do that????


Thanks
The controller is pretty well sealed (potted). Perhaps water is getting into the throttle wiring, or the hall wiring?

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Marc S. » Mar 27 2018 1:19pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:31am
Here you go guys:

V1.0B4 Phaserunner Suite for MacOS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4jl2bosmqhnq ... 4.zip?dl=0

V1.0B4 Phaserunner Suite for Linux: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dou1hs652go22 ... ar.gz?dl=0


The MacOS build hasn't been tested internally on any modern Mac devices, just on our old and slow dev computer. We'll get to that tomorrow but odds are that it should be fine so I've posted so we can get feedback from other users on other machines too.
The Mac version crashes at launch on my 13" MBP from 2009 with MacOS 10.12.6 Sierra.

Update:
It crashes at launch on MacOS 10.8.5 Mountain Lion, as well (same 13" MBP).
Last edited by Marc S. on Mar 28 2018 1:57pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by rberger » Mar 27 2018 1:40pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:31am
V1.0B4 Phaserunner Suite for MacOS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4jl2bosmqhnq ... 4.zip?dl=0
I just tried running it (without a Phaserunner connected) on my iMac Retina running macOS High Sierra 10.13.3

And got the error message:
PhaseRunnerSuite cannot be opened because of a problem.
Check with the developer to make sure PhaseRunnerSuite works with this version of macOS. You may need to reinstall the application. Be sure to install any available updates for the application and macOS.

Click Report to see more detailed information and send a report to Apple.
Here's the crash report:

Code: Select all

Process:               PhaseRunnerSuite [71160]
Path:                  /Volumes/VOLUME/*/PhaseRunnerSuite.app/Contents/MacOS/PhaseRunnerSuite
Identifier:            grin.PhaseRunnerSuite
Version:               ???
Code Type:             X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:        ??? [1]
Responsible:           PhaseRunnerSuite [71160]
User ID:               501

Date/Time:             2018-03-27 11:36:25.704 -0700
OS Version:            Mac OS X 10.13.3 (17D102)
Report Version:        12
Anonymous UUID:        C88AA401-F140-CA3D-90C5-8DDF46E52F94


Time Awake Since Boot: 230000 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Notes:                 Translocated Process

Crashed Thread:        0

Exception Type:        EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes:       0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note:        EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Reason:    DYLD, [0x1] Library missing

Application Specific Information:
dyld: launch, loading dependent libraries

Dyld Error Message:
  Library not loaded: @rpath/QtPrintSupport.framework/Versions/5/QtPrintSupport
  Referenced from: /Volumes/VOLUME/*/PhaseRunnerSuite.app/Contents/MacOS/PhaseRunnerSuite
  Reason: image not found

Binary Images:
       0x108595000 -        0x10871fff7 +grin.PhaseRunnerSuite (???) <7E330AD0-850A-3194-ACBF-1B12E210668D> /var/folders/*/PhaseRunnerSuite.app/Contents/MacOS/PhaseRunnerSuite
       0x10a4f7000 -        0x10a54198f  dyld (519.2.2) <6695F30B-4E88-3C0B-9867-7D738C44A3E6> /usr/lib/dyld
    0x7fff3abc6000 -     0x7fff3b066fe7  com.apple.CoreFoundation (6.9 - 1451) <7AFE9C8F-A562-3AFC-8402-117AA02F57E9> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation
    0x7fff3d3d6000 -     0x7fff3d471fff  com.apple.framework.IOKit (2.0.2 - 1445.40.1) <9CFA07B9-BA6E-31E4-AD4F-C47071A8C522> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Mar 27 2018 1:48pm

Doesn't work on my macbook either. It's the 12-inch, 2017
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by zro-1 » Mar 27 2018 4:23pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:31am
The MacOS build hasn't been tested internally on any modern Mac devices, just on our old and slow dev computer. We'll get to that tomorrow but odds are that it should be fine so I've posted so we can get feedback from other users on other machines too.
Software downloaded!

I have a current-version Mac running the latest OS. I'm a half to one day away from being ready to program the Phaserunner to work with my new YTW-06 motor, so I'll be sure to post here how it all goes.

EDIT:

The Mac version doesn't run for me either. Here's the relevant part from the crash report:

Code: Select all

Exception Type:        EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes:       0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note:        EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

Termination Reason:    DYLD, [0x1] Library missing

Application Specific Information:
dyld: launch, loading dependent libraries

Dyld Error Message:
  Library not loaded: @rpath/QtPrintSupport.framework/Versions/5/QtPrintSupport
  Referenced from: /Applications/PhaseRunnerSuite.app/Contents/MacOS/PhaseRunnerSuite
  Reason: image not found
I have a 2017 MacBook running macOS 10.13.3
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Mar 31 2018 5:05am

justin_le wrote:
Mar 27 2018 3:31am
The MacOS build hasn't been tested internally on any modern Mac devices, just on our old and slow dev computer. We'll get to that tomorrow but odds are that it should be fine.
Apparently I did not play those odds very well! Thanks guys for posting the detailed error reports, clearly there was something left out of the build package and I'll post as soon as we have an updated MacOS release that has been properly tested internally here. :oops:
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Mar 31 2018 3:47pm

hello,

i keep having this issue saying "error 7: post static gating test".
- It appears for no reasons from time to time
- the only way to get the controller working again is to restart it by removing the power ans putting it back on

I changed throttle and I still have the same issue.

any idea what's wrong???
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by rberger » Mar 31 2018 3:52pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 31 2018 5:05am
Apparently I did not play those odds very well! Thanks guys for posting the detailed error reports, clearly there was something left out of the build package and I'll post as soon as we have an updated MacOS release that has been properly tested internally here. :oops:
Appreciate the early release and invitation to test. Glad to help out.

Rob
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Apr 01 2018 1:39am

rberger wrote:
Mar 31 2018 3:52pm
Appreciate the early release and invitation to test. Glad to help out.
OK, here is an updated download for MacOS users to try.
https://www.ebikes.ca/downloads/PhaseRu ... b3.dmg.zip

Word from the dev:
It's the same binary build inside, but I repackaged as a .dmg to force macdeployqt to include the library that's causing the prev 1b4 package to crash for E-S users.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by zro-1 » Apr 01 2018 12:07pm

I just downloaded the new version. I'm happy to report that it didn't crash on launch. I'll try hooking my controller up and see how it does interfacing with it.

Thanks Justin!
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by zro-1 » Apr 01 2018 2:46pm

I hooked up to my Phaserunner and ran the unit through autotune. Everything worked great. I went to the dashboard and watched the hall indicators blink on and off as I spun the wheel backwards (super handy feature). So I'd say that tweak fixed the issue.
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by district9prawn » Apr 04 2018 11:36pm

I recently changed a few sensorless start settings and slightly adjusted current PI loops in Bacdoor. All is well but I've noticed that trying to connect to the phase runner suite running on windows (I tried 0.992 and 1.b3) results in immediate crash. Even with no controller connected, simply importing the xml also crashes. My previous configuration loads up fine but I can't seem to pin down what might have caused this.
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by rberger » Apr 05 2018 12:17am

justin_le wrote:
Apr 01 2018 1:39am

OK, here is an updated download for MacOS users to try.
https://www.ebikes.ca/downloads/PhaseRu ... b3.dmg.zip
Worked perfectly on macOS High Sierra 10.13.14 2015 15" MacBook Pro. Autotuned the Crystalyte 3540 with no problems.
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by evolutiongts » Apr 06 2018 10:34am

Can I use the Phase Runner Software with the BAC2000 controller?
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Jon-London » Apr 06 2018 4:27pm

I am just starting to replace the controller on an Ultramotor A2B Metro (Gen 2.1 with an external Euro controller to the hub) with a Phaserunner 1.0 and would appreciate any advice on the motor and battery settings for the Phaserunner.
From the manual the motor is listed as 500W continuous, 800W peak, 50nM Torque with a 36v battery.
The Euro Ultramotor speed controller has a firmware limit to the speed of ~15.5mph or 260RPM of the 20" wheel. The phase wires are 14AWG. I can't see a Kv rating or any other data.
From other forum members posts and the rebuilds of Gen 1 motors with the controller inside I see: - 18 coils in the hub (is this 9 pole pairs?) - the motor has been used up to 72v with Crystallite 40A controller - its a TDCM motor also used on a 48V Strommer - the windings are 2 x 31 in delta with 20G wire.
To set up initially I have the 36V rear battery (with 30A discharge according to the manual) and a 36V 10A internal pack I built a while back from a couple of Zippy 50C lipos with a 50A BMS.

I'd appreciate any advice on the settings I can try to get started/get the max from this battery / motor / controller without burning anything out.
(I have a CA3 on order but not yet in my hands and was wondering if I should hold off until this arrives before starting testing?)

A second related query is a better battery to suit this controller/motor combination (and the settings) - once I have the controller running I was aiming to replace the battery with something like a 52V triangle or rear pack around 20Ah e.g. eV3 / Unitpack power. I'm looking for a good commuting range able to keep up with the traffic and any comments on battery voltage/ capacity / format etc. and the Phaserunner setup changes before I hit the buy button would be helpful.

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Apr 07 2018 1:38pm

Jon-London wrote:
Apr 06 2018 4:27pm
I can't see a Kv rating or any other data.
Yeah, this is typical of motor rating. They don't give real data like KV, and winding resistance, but they do give fluffy data like power or torque values from which you can sortof infer stuff.
From other forum members posts and the rebuilds of Gen 1 motors with the controller inside I see: - 18 coils in the hub (is this 9 pole pairs?)
No, the number of pole pairs is based on the magnet count, not the coils. If you can look at the picture again count the magnets. If the motor has hall sensors, then you can find this trivially by plugging it a computer with the latest phaserunner software suite and using the dashboard view to watch a simulated hall LED and count how many times it toggles when you turn the wheel one revolution.

Most likely you have 8 pole pairs.
I'd appreciate any advice on the settings I can try to get started/get the max from this battery / motor / controller without burning anything out.
The autotune process will figure out the motor KV so use an initial guess of like 8 rpm/V and you'll be fine. It takes a fair bit of effort to burn up a hub motor, I wouldn't worry about that, just set it up to a reasonable ~25A battery current limit or so. To really get the maximum power window you would want a thermistor in the motor and have the CA3 do thermal rollback if the motor overheats, but there's no need for that if you just want a power level to keep up with traffic.
A second related query is a better battery to suit this controller/motor combination (and the settings) - once I have the controller running I was aiming to replace the battery with something like a 52V triangle or rear pack around 20Ah e.g. eV3 / Unitpack power. I'm looking for a good commuting range able to keep up with the traffic and any comments on battery voltage/ capacity / format etc. and the Phaserunner setup changes before I hit the buy button would be helpful.
The battery conversation doesn't really belong on this thread, but all the basic principles apply. Once you know the motor KV from autotune then you can easily tell the minimum voltage needed to hit a given speed. We have the TDCM motor used on the Stromer, AtoB etc. on our simulator ( http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... otor=MTDCM ) and you can use the KV adjust slider to match the specific winding that you have, and get a sense of the real world speeds for a given pack voltage and vehicle loading. Then size the amp-hour capacity of the pack for the range that you need.

With the Phaserunner controller, it doesn't matter if you have a higher voltage battery than needed, as you can easily set phase current and motor power limits to keep the actual power flow to the hub in a reasonable range.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 07 2018 4:07pm

Nice ,

Does that mean you set the amp limit to say 25/30/35 amp max, and then set the Watts Max ? .... On/With the Cycle Analyst ?

If not how ?

Will this work and will the Phaserunner work with the C.A. V 2.3/2.4 ?
( I already have one on hand )





justin_le wrote:
Apr 07 2018 1:38pm

With the Phaserunner controller, it doesn't matter if you have a higher voltage battery than needed, as you can easily set phase current and motor power limits to keep the actual power flow to the hub in a reasonable range.
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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Apr 07 2018 4:51pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Apr 07 2018 4:07pm
Nice ,
Does that mean you set the amp limit to say 25/30/35 amp max, and then set the Watts Max ? .... On/With the Cycle Analyst ?
If not how ?
The Both the CA and the Phaserunner have the ability to limit battery amps and battery watts into the motor. But only the Phaserunner can limit the actual phase amps which is ultimately what causes overheating.

My usual suggestion is that if you have a CA, leave the phasunner's battery limits high and use the CA to scale those down since then you have the ability to adjust this on the fly without reprogramming the controller. But if you don't have a CA, then yes you should program in a battery current limit and/or motor power limit into the phaserunner that is suitable for your battery/motor combo.

Max watts and max battery amps are more or less the same thing if you are running with the same voltage battery, so you only need to choose one of them as your active limiting parameter.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Apr 07 2018 6:02pm

What's the max power I can use safely with the phaserunner? Can I use 3000w as max? Can I put 5000w?

I'd like a better acceleration from stand point. Can I put battery power at 96A?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by justin_le » Apr 07 2018 7:51pm

cwah wrote:
Apr 07 2018 6:02pm
What's the max power I can use safely with the phaserunner? Can I use 3000w as max? Can I put 5000w?
Controllers should not be talked about in terms of max power, that's the wrong way to look at them. The controller has thermal limitations to the continuous phase current that it can handle through the fets. In the case of a Phaserunner that's about 50 amps with no external heatsink, and about 70 amps when bolted to a large heat spreader. The word "safely" doesn't have much meaning since the if you exceed this limit for long enough and the controller gets hot, it will go into thermal rollback and reduce power appropriately.
I'd like a better acceleration from stand point. Can I put battery power at 96A?
You can set it to that that for sure but you'll never see it off the line because you are motor phase current limited. Off the line you'll have 96 amps of motor phase current, and that could be just 10, 20, 30 amps of battery current, depending on the motor motor winding resistance. As you speed up the battery current will continue to increase for the same phase current.

I tried to explain this in section 4.3 of the user manual, it might be worth reading that again.
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Phaserun ... Rev2.0.pdf
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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