Dual motor is interesting but too heavy! Do you use 1 throttle for 2 controllers?Alan B wrote: ↑Apr 07, 2018 10:47 pmOne way to use the limits in the controller is to set the maximum values that you would ever want to use with the battery and motor you have. For example the battery might have a 30 amp limit in the BMS that you don't really want to exceed, or perhaps it has a 50 amp peak rating so you might be willing to set battery current limiting to something in the range of 30 to 50 amps. For the motor current you might want to figure out how much current makes sense to force through the motor at low speeds. Above a point the extra current is mostly making heat (I squared R) and not making much more torque due to saturation. Choose something the motor wiring can actually handle without getting too hot. If that's not enough thrust then consider a smaller wheel, a bigger motor, or second motor, putting more current into the motor above the safe value will mostly just cause it to burn faster... Anyway the idea here is to use the controller for the maximum values you ever want to use, and then use the Cycle Analyst to regulate your actual values down from there. Then you won't accidentally adjust the CA and go higher than you decided was appropriate when you were programming the controller, and hopefully thinking clearly and choosing carefully.
I have a bike with a 9C motor in a 26" wheel, and that just wasn't enough torque for the steeper stuff. Nearly melted it that one day in Marin where we climbed the big hill for the ES gathering. Going from a 12 FET to a PhaseRunner didn't fix that, but the second BMC in the front wheel (in new steel forks) with a second PhaseRunner really did fix that. Now it out accelerates a Cromotor in various real tests that we did, which wasn't really my goal, but it climbs steep stuff without getting hot or bogging down, which was my goal. Two modest hubmotors equals pretty amazing performance. A single PhaseRunner would not be enough to feed the CroMotor (which can handle well over 96A), but using two motors and two PhaseRunners we get a similar amount of performance. If you really want high performance from a single motor then perhaps the PhaseRunner, a 6 FET design, is a bit on the low side. It has a bigger brother that might be a better choice.
Hi ZrO and thanks for the feedback. Hopefully you found that there is a help menu with all the parameter info But this:
Is an absolutely great suggestion. I've never been too happy with the tooltip popup behavior that we have available inside QT and a tip that stays persistent after you click on an info icon with an 'x' box to close it would be much better than hovering the mouse over a certain text and waiting.Alternatively, you could make a little icon next to each setting that you can click on to view the popup content and it stays visible until you click away or close it.
Is very well and clearly stated. To the question "what should I set my Phaserunner limits to", above is the answer!Alan B wrote: ↑Apr 07, 2018 10:47 pmOne way to use the limits in the controller is to set the maximum values that you would ever want to use with the battery and motor you have. For example the battery might have a 30 amp limit in the BMS that you don't really want to exceed, or perhaps it has a 50 amp peak rating so you might be willing to set battery current limiting to something in the range of 30 to 50 amps. For the motor current you might want to figure out how much current makes sense to force through the motor at low speeds. Above a point the extra current is mostly making heat (I squared R) and not making much more torque due to saturation. Choose something the motor wiring can actually handle without getting too hot.
... Anyway the idea here is to use the controller for the maximum values you ever want to use, and then use the Cycle Analyst to regulate your actual values down from there. Then you won't accidentally adjust the CA and go higher than you decided was appropriate when you were programming the controller,
Wow, I feel dumb. I totally missed the help menu. It does indeed have everything there. Sorry for not being more thorough in my inspection of the software before I made that criticism.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018 2:46 amHi ZrO and thanks for the feedback. Hopefully you found that there is a help menu with all the parameter info Help.jpg
That's awesome! I look forward to seeing what you come up with.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018 2:46 amWe're working on a trial implementation of this and if it works as well as it seems it should then that will be part of the next release. And we'll also be flushing out the help menu with more detail and including in the software download the user manual .pdf with a link to that from within the program.
I personally haven't had much (or any) issues with the connection between the Phaserunner and the Mac. The first time I used it I noticed after hitting "save" that the status would briefly show the controller disconnected. But now that I understand more, I assume that this is the controller rebooting with the new parameters so it's normal that it would momentarily disconnect. A little note in the manual or help saying "Hey, when you save settings, you'll see the controller disconnect as it reboots, but don't sweat it unless it doesn't reconnect" would help people using this for the first time with no prior experience in writing parameters to flash memory like that.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018 2:46 amIn the meantime we've got an updated download for the MacOS build that now bundles in the necessary FTDI driver and will prompt the user to install them if it detects that the USB->TTL cable is using the wrong one. It turns out that the majority of the issues we've been having recently with Mac users having communication problems during autotune have been related to MacOS updates that are replacing the previously installed FTDI driver with a default driver that doesn't work so well. I'd love to hear if people can try this who'd been having issues getting the MacBook to run autotune. The Mac 1.0.1 is release available here:
www.ebikes.ca/downloads/PhaseRunner_Sof ... v1.0.1.zip
The biggest catch22 here is that autotune can fail with an instantaneous phase error if the PLL and Current bandwidth are too low. SO I don't see how you could rely on autotune to set them unless you have a script that says: if auto-tune fails with this error, bump up the settings, and try again automatically.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 19, 2018 2:46 amRegarding the PLL and Current Regulator bandwidth parameters, what we're really hoping is to get a bit more clarity from ASI and then find a way of having the software provide a suggested set of values for these after the static autotune. At that point, the phaserunner knows the motor winding, inductance, and effective operating eRPM (from the best guess KV value and pole pairs) and should be able to more smartly infer sensible values here.
If we can do that and get it right then it would effectively eliminate the need for most people to touch these values for an operational setup. But if not then I agree that this should warrant a more dedicated help section.
No worries, I suppose that's a sign that it's not super obvious there either.
Exactly that is the hope and I'll be looking forwards to having something in development here. The only other parameters that could then cause the autotune to fail would be the sensorless self startup behavior. That can be trickier for parameter prediction since the controller has no way to know the potential inertia present on the motor, but I've found that the default settings at least for unloaded motors work quite well. A lot of tweaking is needed to have it start sensorless from a standstill on an actual bike through.EDIT: I didn't catch the static test part of that comment. If that could work it would be awesome! In all my trials and tuning, the static test always worked. It was when I tried to run the spinning test that I'd get the error. So if it could offer proposed setting for the PLL and bandwidth that would be super cool.
I'm happy to hear that! There is one more major thing we are working on now to finalized the full production standard Phaserunner device, and once that's done we're hoping to then have the resources to expand into a smaller/cheaper lower power version, and then a larger 12 fet model, so that we can better accomodate the broad range of motor power levels used in ebikes.Overall I am super super happy with the Phaserunner. I don't think I'll ever be able to use a different controller on any of my bikes again.
Hey District9 and sorry for overlooking this post earlier. This is a pretty unexpected behavior that we wouldn't mind understanding better. Is it possible for you to email us this .xml settings that you created with bacdoor software but which causes the Phaserunner suite to crash?district9prawn wrote: ↑Apr 04, 2018 11:36 pmI recently changed a few sensorless start settings and slightly adjusted current PI loops in Bacdoor. All is well but I've noticed that trying to connect to the phase runner suite running on windows (I tried 0.992 and 1.b3) results in immediate crash. Even with no controller connected, simply importing the xml also crashes. My previous configuration loads up fine but I can't seem to pin down what might have caused this.
Thanks for sending this over. The issue is related to the fast undervoltage fault setting (address 148) and indeed it causes our Phaserunner program to get stuck in a loop. Thanks for finding this bug, and we should have it fixed in the next release build.justin_le wrote: ↑Apr 21, 2018 1:17 pm
Hey District9 and sorry for overlooking this post earlier. This is a pretty unexpected behavior that we wouldn't mind understanding better. Is it possible for you to email us this .xml settings that you created with bacdoor software but which causes the Phaserunner suite to crash?
I also really like the Higo, but find nothing for the DIY fella, and availability and pricing of pigtails is disappointing. Still I like kits with them integrated for ease of build.
Ah sorry I should have clarified, not motor inertia but the overall total vehicle inertia. At least the way that ASI has written their sensorless self start firmware it runs open loop at a steadily increasing RPM before switching over to closed loop control. So if it tries initially to ramp up the speed faster than the motor torque can actually accelerate the vehicle mass, then it will tend to shudder.
Proof will be in the pudding within the coming month. We've still been having a challenging time trying to keep up with demand manufacturing the Phaserunner assemblies in house from the raw PCBA's provided from ASI. Over the last 6-8 months we've worked hard to transition things so that a majority of the sub assemblies and QC testing on the next batch is done by ASI's contract manufacturing partners. We've shipped them all the mechanical parts we make here and the first samples from that are due to be sent for our verification very soon, like next week!?. I'm excited.
Sorry to hear that. Fortunately there are many more market segments within the ebike world than the hobby / RC world, and support expectations are a lot higher too. That's a pretty large barrier to the less savory business models actually having long term success.