Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

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davideserin   10 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by davideserin » Oct 17 2018 3:29am

Hey everyone, I'm hoping someone might have some experience with the Phaserunner and smaller motors like the Bafang SWXH (aka G02 i think) and the Xinogda YTW06. I've modified one of each with a temp sensor and ATF oil bath and I want to experiment with how far i can take them. I'm running a 21S3P Sanyo GA pack charged to 86v, so within the 90v max of the controller. I'm also using a Cycle Analyst, but I've put the throttle to bypass, so it's not limiting anything for now while i try to get the motor running smoothly.

I'm starting with the SWXH while i build the YTW06 into a wheel and the issues i'm having are stalling from a standstill and juddering at all speeds. I've read up on this forum and read the unofficial manual, but I can't seem to find a sweet spot with the settings. The most success i have is with the torque ramping, but the advice in the Phaserunner app is to set this as low as possible and let the Cycle Analyst look after the ramping, but then i get into power oscillations.

I've adjust the PLL Bandwidth between 0.5 and 15, the Current Regulator Bandwidth between 0 and 5000 and it doesn't quite do the job. I tried manually adjusting the Ki and Kp settings too, but no real luck.

The motor spins perfectly in the Autotune. And i've used this Phaserunner successfully with a Direct Drive Motor and a Bafang CST with perfect results.

I've been able to get an improved acceleration by increasing the torque ramp, but this makes it a bit sluggish and what i find is the motor won't start every time. I'll pull the throttle and it makes an electrical noise, but doesn't engaged the motor sporadically. I'm not getting any overcurrent warning of any sort with the stalling or juddering.

I was also unsure of the pole count, but think it's correct. The instructions say to multiply the magnets by the ratio. I counted the magnets and it has 20 and the gear ratio is 1:5. I multiplied by 5, but think this is wrong. In the manual the CST is listed as 40 and it has 16 magnets inside, so it seems that 1:5 is x2.5. I did this for the SWXH and have used 50 as the pole count.

My goal is to use the Cycle Analyst V3 with the Phaserunner and let the CA3 manage all of the ramping, etc. I've made some assumptions that i'm not sure should be true.

1. With the DD motor, if i twist the throttle, i have uninterrupted torque from a standstill, but with the SWXH, it feels like it needs a rolling start before it will engage. It keeps stalling and giving up. Is it correct to assume, that i should expect the same experience with a geared motor in terms of starting from a standstill, or is this stalling inherent, even if only at a very small level.

It would be amazing if anyone has any XML files that they have used with success, for both the CA3 and Phaserunner!

Oh and the final quirk i'd like to solve, even though it doesn't seem to be causing any issue is the blinking light for VdcHighFLDBK. I've read that it could be two values set the same, but i looked through 500 settings on the Dev screen and couldn't find the right ones to change, any suggestions?

Also.. sorry for so many questions, but I loaded up some old settings from a a couple of years for the Phaserunner and SWXH (i was using it at 60v and less power then), and i got errors importing the XML. I tested repeatedly with lots of different setting files, but needed to initialise values with Level 3 setting to get it to behave again after. Interestingly, the Phaserunner no longer had the VdcHighFLDBK fault, but instead the cold battery with the old XML file, so clearly there's a setting being changed that resolves this blinking. When i put back the initial value XML that i got from the Grin website recently, i get the VdcHighFLDBK fault again.

I've spent nearly 10 hours working on just these settings and keep starting from a default initial values and reset devices, then try changing one thing at a time carefully, so i'm a bit lost. Too many variables for me! Hope someone can help!

Marc S.   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Marc S. » Oct 17 2018 3:53pm

The Bafang SWXH has a gear ratio of 1:4.3
The Bafang BPM and CST have a 1:5 gear ratio.

davideserin   10 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by davideserin » Oct 18 2018 4:44pm

Marc S. wrote:
Oct 17 2018 3:53pm
The Bafang SWXH has a gear ratio of 1:4.3
The Bafang BPM and CST have a 1:5 gear ratio.
Thanks, i've found it now: https://www.bafang-e.com/en/components/ ... 0250d.html

Front version on Grin: http://www.ebikes.ca/mg01-fst.html#

It says 1:4.2 and 44 poles. I'll try that, thanks for your help.

davideserin   10 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by davideserin » Oct 18 2018 5:01pm

I've solved my voltage error by copying the XML from another Phaserunner 1. The problem can be re-introduced by uploading the Default Parameter File from here: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/phase ... meter-file

I'm getting this on the Phaserunner 2.

Are parameter files interchangeable between versions of the software and hardware?

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arthurtuxedo   10 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by arthurtuxedo » Oct 18 2018 11:40pm

Just a quick review of the Phaserunner: I had mine up and running quickly with my eZee 250 rpm with blown hall sensors. It configured a lot more quickly than I expected, and the 36V battery now tops out at about 26 MPH with up to 9 amps field weakening, which is a bit higher than I was expecting as the previous was only 19 MPH. The previous Infineon sensorless controller's terrible stuttering and cutting out at low speeds has been solved, and the increases in acceleration and speed are enormous. I can tell that it would be a little quicker and smoother off the line if the halls still worked, but the sensorless mode is quite good and might improve by tweaking the settings. These controllers may not be cheap, but they are worth every penny!

Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by Dumsterdave » Oct 19 2018 1:16am

arthurtuxedo wrote:
Oct 18 2018 11:40pm
Just a quick review of the Phaserunner: I had mine up and running quickly with my eZee 250 rpm with blown hall sensors. It configured a lot more quickly than I expected, and the 36V battery now tops out at about 26 MPH with up to 9 amps field weakening, which is a bit higher than I was expecting as the previous was only 19 MPH. The previous Infineon sensorless controller's terrible stuttering and cutting out at low speeds has been solved, and the increases in acceleration and speed are enormous. I can tell that it would be a little quicker and smoother off the line if the halls still worked, but the sensorless mode is quite good and might improve by tweaking the settings. These controllers may not be cheap, but they are worth every penny!
It must be my settings, but I switched from an infineon to the pr and my acceleration has dropped a ton! Also I'm running a battery capable of pushing 60A cont., And no matey weekday I set the CA to, I can only reach 35A. It definitely is smoother and quieter though and I can reach a higher speed, bit I'm really stumped as to why my acceleration and amp draw are so low. I've tried to run the throttle directly to the PR and I get no noticeable increase in acceleration so I'm thinking it's the PR settings, not the CA settings. Any idea what I need to do?

davideserin   10 mW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by davideserin » Oct 19 2018 1:25pm

My error message came back, it had only gone because the battery voltage went below 84v. The error message is a result of the battery voltage being higher than the Regen voltage start/end range, regardless of whether you're using it or not.

Warnings[8]: VdcHighFLDBK

I also resolved my issue with the G01 (SWXH)) motor. I had mistaken it for another model on Bafang's spec sheets. So with the correct pole count of 44, it tests fine.

It worked fine with the basic settings. I've set it to 40 phase amps and 15 battery amps.

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by district9prawn » Oct 22 2018 1:50am

davideserin wrote:
Oct 18 2018 5:01pm
I've solved my voltage error by copying the XML from another Phaserunner 1. The problem can be re-introduced by uploading the Default Parameter File from here: http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/phase ... meter-file

I'm getting this on the Phaserunner 2.

Are parameter files interchangeable between versions of the software and hardware?
I'm also having problems with an OG Phaserunner and the default parameter file on the website. Loading up the default file with level 3 access enabled, I get all sorts of faults which don't clear. Faults are instantaneous phase over current, another phase over current (forgot), as well as cold battery foldback like david. I ended up just doing a restore to a previous xml file.

Reason I wanted to restore defaults in the first place is that I'm having trouble setting up regen. I am using two throttles, one for drive and one for regen. I pulled apart the throttle connector to separate the green throttle wire and the blue brake 2 wire. When I mapped the throttle voltage the software read the 0.8-4.2v output as 0.25 - 1.0v with periodic blips to around 4.8-4.9v. Simply setting the throttle range to 0.25- 1.0v worked but I'd like to know whats going on. The throttle works fine according to multimeter and a different control. The brake wire mapped fine and I got smooth braking after setting "analog brake enable" to 1.

I forgot to save parameters to flash so this working config was gone after unplugging the battery to charge. When I tried to replicate the working config, the drive throttle worked but was basically WOT/off without modulation. The regen throttle also provided WOT/off
forward torque if the motor was spinning. Turning the regen lever while the motor is stationary does not result in any power to the motor. In Bacdoor, I can see the torque set point increasing and positive while turning the throttle and increasing negative while turning the regen lever. So i have no idea why it is going accelerating rather than braking.

Since something seems wrong with the throttle input, is it possible to short the regen and throttle signals and wire them to the brake 2 (blue) wire? Similar to how the PR is wired from grin but connected to brake instead of throttle.Then set the "throttle source" parameter to brake 2 instead of throttle.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by district9prawn » Oct 22 2018 3:08am

Oh crap I figured it out I've been barking up the wrong tree. Went over the settings carefully and control mode was set to speed, not torque. Not exactly sure why brake becomes throttle in speed mode but that and the weird throttle values threw me. :?: I'll admit that took me way longer to figure out than it should have :oops: .

Could the ADC gain for the throttle input have become messed up? The lower and upper voltages are about 4x less than the actual throttle voltages.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

cwah   10 GW

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Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

Post by cwah » Oct 27 2018 12:53pm

Stopped working after rain happened.

I thought it was something with my wiring and made sure the throttle and regen wire didnt touch each other. I also noticed by twigling the wire the on / off switch were cut so I resoldered it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlb4a989l7fxs ... 2.jpg?dl=0

Then now, when I use the throttle it says something like overvoltage:
https://youtu.be/_KB5tZFy0Nc

I changed all my throttle to check if it was a problem with the throttle but I had the same problem.

When I twist the throttle gently enough to avoid the error message, the motor still doesn't spin but no error are indicated!!

Any idea what's wrong?

Thanks
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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