Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by eleven6 » Feb 16 2015 10:33pm

haha no like 10 minutes away from Bellevue!

I really dig the wheel + tire combo, would have totally gone that route had I not already went with the 24" bike rims. I'll probably end up with 'em sooner or later though when I blow up the H4040 motor and will be in need of an MXUS upgrade :)

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by madin88 » Feb 17 2015 4:11am

looks awesome teslanv. great work!

i will also soon have my MXUS 3T running. looking forward how it performs and compares to cromotor. did you upgrade the phase wires?
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by mlt34 » Feb 17 2015 8:16am

teslanv wrote:Image
Perfect, so these are all the places you ship to?

:wink:
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 8:52am

madin88 wrote:looks awesome teslanv. great work!

i will also soon have my MXUS 3T running. looking forward how it performs and compares to cromotor. did you upgrade the phase wires?
Phase wire upgrade is still on the short list of things to do. But surprisingly, my 50 mph speed runs was accomplished on the stock ~13awg phase wires. :shock:
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by madin88 » Feb 17 2015 9:54am

what kind of aluminum is the frame made of? does it feel solid at 50+mph?
i can't believe the genesis v2100 is only about 130$. and on top of that its a complete bike :shock:
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 10:55am

The frame is surprisingly solid, even at 50 MPH.

The Whole bike is $130, the parts of which I assign the following Values:

Main Frame & Swing Arm: $125
Everything else: $5
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by windtrader » Feb 17 2015 11:27am

One of the big draws about this project is offering a path to a.high speed ebike for very little money and time. We know going in the parts are wally and the bike is designed to go 15 mph not 50. What parts of the stock bike really need an immediate upgrade to keep riders safe. Nobody wants to read someone built one then some component failure sent them to the hospital.

Something as obvious as the brakes. Are they strong enough to slow the bike safely from any high speed?

I think it would be a good idea to group different build configurations like car updrades. Stage 1, 2, etc. And assign some safe operating parameters to help set safe expectations.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2015 11:44am

Clean build.
Farfle's swing arm was a great idea - it's great that you are bringing it back.

It looks like you've assembled a good bunch of components as products for your business - well done.

On a related note: limiting the build to a bit under 4kW keeps it street legal in my state - so your title is saved by a few LiPo bricks :D.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by drew12345 » Feb 17 2015 11:52am

When I first learned that it was a Walmart bike, i was like no way I'm using that. With the stress of weight and torque I thought it would break. But I haven't heard any issues. So I'm a bit surprised. I might get one in future.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2015 12:24pm

Although the Wally bike thing might seem a little unnerving at first blush, it might be useful to consider that this is not a new idea - Farfle was making these swingarms back in 2011 for the express purpose of handling powerful motors (Farfle's Race Bike). There are quite a few of these bikes out there with nary a reported frame failure. This isn't a convincing engineering argument, but the idea that that the frame is demonstrably under-built doesn't hold water either.
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 17 2015 6:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 12:33pm

windtrader wrote:One of the big draws about this project is offering a path to a.high speed ebike for very little money and time. We know going in the parts are wally and the bike is designed to go 15 mph not 50. What parts of the stock bike really need an immediate upgrade to keep riders safe. Nobody wants to read someone built one then some component failure sent them to the hospital.

Something as obvious as the brakes. Are they strong enough to slow the bike safely from any high speed?

I think it would be a good idea to group different build configurations like car updrades. Stage 1, 2, etc. And assign some safe operating parameters to help set safe expectations.
I am not kidding when I say that the only thing on the Genesis V2100 bike worth using is the frame, rocker arms & rear upper wishbone frame.

That being said, if you are really hurting on budget, and want to replace parts slowly over time, here is what I would recommend you replace in order of priority:

1. Rear Lower Swing Arm. - Get a Farfle. Either the Original if you can find one, or mine. Unless you want a tail dragger...
2. Front Suspension Forks. – The stock ones are a total joke. Even old steel forks like the Rockshox Dart 1 would be an improvement.
3. Brakes: No rear disc brake, so you would need a Farfle Swing Arm to mount them up, or some kind of disc brake adapter. Front disc brake is very cheap quality. How fast do you want to stop, and how much noise do you want your brakes to make? And how much do you trust your regen brake NOT to fail? I think this is not something you want to leave to chance on a powered bike of any speed... Get the Avid BB7 calipers or Hydro, if you like, and have a little peace of mind.
4. Rear Shock – Again – just a cheap spring. A heavier spring is better. An air shock, like the fox float, is going to give you a surprisingly great ride.
5. Headset - If you are replacing the front forks, might as well make this upgrade. The FSA "The Pig" is a decent choice for about $25.
6. Wheels - Obviously the motor wheel will be new. The front wheel is not a quick lock. Nor is it anything special. And certainly not meant for speeds above 20 mph.
7 . Tires & Tubes. - Use them if you want, until they wear out. Although for speeds above 20 mph, ride quality will suffer greatly.
8. Shifters & Derailleurs - The shifters and deraileurs are as cheap as they come. If you plan on pedaling and shifting much, you will appreciate the upgrade. Or do as I am doing, and go with a single speed system, and forget shifting altogether.
9. Cranks, Pedals, Bottom Bracket & Chainring. - These will suffice for a while. Especially if they are just glorified foot holders, and you don't pedal much. On the original Farfle, they won't clear the swing arm, but on my V2 Swing arm, they will.
10. Seat Post & Seat. - Again, this is nothing special, but other than some butt-hurt on long rides, it works as it should.
11. Handle Bar Riser, Handle Bars - Another item that works OK on the street. Hard riding offroad will likely stress these beyond their limit.
12. Brake Levers - Brake levers will likely be replaced when you add your motor kit.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by macribs » Feb 17 2015 1:04pm

Can''t see anything yet on your website. Guess I will check back tomorrow.
Seems you have done great choices for components too. I must say if the prices are right this might be a nice kit for a wide customer base.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 1:10pm

Web site is still not live. We decided to wait until the motors are in our possession, and inspected for damage. - Don't want to sell you guys something we haven't vetted properly.

Motors should be here sometime this week. Hang tight.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by cwah » Feb 17 2015 1:44pm

How much does the whole bike cost you in time and money?
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by windtrader » Feb 17 2015 1:48pm

teslanv wrote:
windtrader wrote:One of the big draws about this project is offering a path to a.high speed ebike for very little money and time. We know going in the parts are wally and the bike is designed to go 15 mph not 50. What parts of the stock bike really need an immediate upgrade to keep riders safe. Nobody wants to read someone built one then some component failure sent them to the hospital.

Something as obvious as the brakes. Are they strong enough to slow the bike safely from any high speed?

I think it would be a good idea to group different build configurations like car updrades. Stage 1, 2, etc. And assign some safe operating parameters to help set safe expectations.
I am not kidding when I say that the only thing on the Genesis V2100 bike worth using is the frame, rocker arms & rear upper wishbone frame.

That being said, if you are really hurting on budget, and want to replace parts slowly over time, here is what I would recommend you replace in order of priority:

1. Rear Lower Swing Arm. - Get a Farfle. Either the Original if you can find one, or mine. Unless you want a tail dragger...
2. Front Suspension Forks. – The stock ones are a total joke. Even old steel forks like the Rockshox Dart 1 would be an improvement.
3. Brakes: No rear disc brake, so you would need a Farfle Swing Arm to mount them up, or some kind of disc brake adapter. Front disc brake is very cheap quality. How fast do you want to stop, and how much noise do you want your brakes to make? And how much do you trust your regen brake NOT to fail? I think this is not something you want to leave to chance on a powered bike of any speed... Get the Avid BB7 calipers or Hydro, if you like, and have a little peace of mind.
4. Rear Shock – Again – just a cheap spring. A heavier spring is better. An air shock, like the fox float, is going to give you a surprisingly great ride.
5. Headset - If you are replacing the front forks, might as well make this upgrade. The FSA "The Pig" is a decent choice for about $25.
6. Wheels - Obviously the motor wheel will be new. The front wheel is not a quick lock. Nor is it anything special. And certainly not meant for speeds above 20 mph.
7 . Tires & Tubes. - Use them if you want, until they wear out. Although for speeds above 20 mph, ride quality will suffer greatly.
8. Shifters & Derailleurs - The shifters and deraileurs are as cheap as they come. If you plan on pedaling and shifting much, you will appreciate the upgrade. Or do as I am doing, and go with a single speed system, and forget shifting altogether.
9. Cranks, Pedals, Bottom Bracket & Chainring. - These will suffice for a while. Especially if they are just glorified foot holders, and you don't pedal much. On the original Farfle, they won't clear the swing arm, but on my V2 Swing arm, they will.
10. Seat Post & Seat. - Again, this is nothing special, but other than some butt-hurt on long rides, it works as it should.
11. Handle Bar Riser, Handle Bars - Another item that works OK on the street. Hard riding offroad will likely stress these beyond their limit.
12. Brake Levers - Brake levers will likely be replaced when you add your motor kit.
I see you weren't making that statement in jest at all. One thing worth mention is there an "upgraded" Genesis that is supposed to have better components. That might be a better starting place for any one who would like to get going as quickly as possible with the least additional effort or added expense. All coming along nicely, bits here and there. Should be easy to harvest the key nuggets to make up a nice guide/FAQ

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 3:00pm

cwah wrote:How much does the whole bike cost you in time and money?
You can build this bike with similar components, if reasonably shopped around for $2500-$3000.

The Cost of the Components from Kinaye would include:

Motor in 17" or 19" MMP Rim: $500 Shipped
Controller, throttle & ebrakes: $125 Shipped
Farfle Swing Arm V2: $220 Shipped
Battery Bag: $80 Shipped
CA V2.3: $130 Shipped
Total: $1055 Shipped

Then add a battery, some wiring and a few key standard bike component upgrades and you are set.

If you can put a bike together from components and have some skill at soldering wires & connectors, it is a very feasible project. If you have gathered all of the necessary parts (and don't find yourself in need of some special part or connector that is only available online), then this build can be accomplished in a weekend fairly easily.
Last edited by teslanv on Feb 17 2015 3:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by windtrader » Feb 17 2015 3:09pm

Thanks for posting that as it puts the overall project into perspective, especially to establish reasonable expectations to what one is getting into with respect to budget. I think many may think, "Holy cow! A Wally bike and some parts and a battery and I'm just a blur down the road." When you state up front, even though a wally frame holds things together, this is not a joke project but a serious high performance ebike with a pretty serious budget, the air will go out of some who think this is some easy and cheap way to HP ebiking.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 3:46pm

This is not a "First build" kind of project. But it is an excellent project nonetheless, once you can appreciate what it takes to make a decently performing ebike. Perhaps some with a realistic budget will attempt this build on a first try, though.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by teslanv » Feb 17 2015 4:01pm

Similar frames to the Genesis V2100:

http://www.kent.bike/32672/26-gmc-topkick-----------

http://www.amazon.com/Topkick-Dual-Susp ... B00J2LW2DG

Same exact frame as the Genesis V2100. but slightly better components.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Feb 17 2015 4:16pm

Nice weapon you got there, teslanv!

Guess now you could say in all honesty, "Assault & Battery got me 50..."

:twisted: :lol:
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by 100volts+ » Feb 17 2015 4:59pm

imilar frames to the Genesis V2100:

http://www.kent.bike/32672/26-gmc-topkick-----------

http://www.amazon.com/Topkick-Dual-Susp ... B00J2LW2DG

Same exact frame as the Genesis V2100. but slightly better components.

I would go with the Genesis v2100 because Amazon is selling the Topkick for 368.00 and sooner or later everything but the frame, pivot arm, and pivot are going in the trash. Here is a list of average to good parts I used.

Farfle custom cromoly swingarm
RockShox Monarch RT3 Rear Air Shock (7.25x1.75-Inch/Medium Compression Tune)
RockShox Rear Shock Mounting Hardware-3-Piece Set (1/2X1/2-Inch 50.0x8-mm)
RockShox High-Pressure Shock Pump (300 psi max)
Zoom 25.4mm Adjustable Stem Headset
Dnm USD-8 dual crown inverted fork 200mm travel
20mm through axle front hub
Prowheel Gen 3 19"x1.4 motocross rims front and back
Shinko 19"x 2.75" SR241 tires front and back
Bicycle Kickstand Double Leg Button Adjust Blk
Home made wiring harnesses made with Anderson Power poles
Custom modifed Zombiess 24 fet 150v controller
V3 Cromotor
6 Zippy Flight Max 5s 8AH lipo in series for 30s (125.3v hot)
home made aluminum panniers
2 2000 lumen headlights run through CA aux power jack
2 ac to dc converters 9v 2a
Version 3 Cycle Analyst
generic brake levers with electrical inhibit
Avid BB7 Mountain Disc Brake 203mm front, 185mm rear
Portland Design Works Danger Zone Tail Light
iCharger 4010 Duo
meanwell power 1000w power supply
Sunlite Alloy Single Speed Crankset - 152mm x 32T, Silver
three speed switch
Crytalyle half twist throttle
sapim 12 gauge spokes
extended 151mm BB from sickbikeparts.com
nickel plated hd chain
BM WORKS Speed Extender - Lightweight (80g) Bicycle Handlebar Extender
Sinz Expert Square Taper 140mm Arm Set Blk 110bcd
Zoom Alloy Handlebar for 25.3mm (Black, 620mm, 25.4mm Center)
Dicta 16T 3/32" Chrome freewheel

PS I still want a brooks seat though
PPS Don't ask what I spent. If I went through the reciepts I'd probably cry.
Last edited by 100volts+ on Feb 17 2015 8:23pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by John in CR » Feb 17 2015 7:38pm

Nice bargain high power kit you've put together. I'd only make 2 suggestions:
1. Run the wiring on the downtube, so you can flip the controller and have the wires enter the bottom. It will look cleaner, but more importantly it would form a drip loop to the controller like you have on the motor. Water follows wires like river channels, and controllers are much more sensitive to water in them than motors are.
2. Make sure you have a good comprehensive liability insurance policy, especially if you're going to recommend RC Lipo batteries as a retailer.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by mlt34 » Feb 17 2015 10:42pm

You can still run the wires on the top tube if you want to keep them mostly hidden under the bag, but I agree with John about the controller mounted wire exit down, very important.
teslanv wrote: Motor in 17" or 19" MMP Rim: $500 Shipped
Controller, throttle & ebrakes: $125 Shipped
Farfle Swing Arm V2: $220 Shipped
Battery Bag: $80 Shipped
CA V2.3: $130 Shipped
Total: $1055 Shipped

Then add a battery, some wiring and a few key standard bike component upgrades and you are set.
That's really reasonable. You're talking a powerful, reliable electric motorcycle-capable ebike for under $2k in the end. That's just awesome.
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by windtrader » Feb 18 2015 4:45am

I hate to say - talk to a lawyer because i just felt them prices jump 10% but if you sell only parts and not even all to build the thing, i think you have fairly liability, especially RC batteries if you are not the OEM. If you ever get hit, they will and they'd likely be the bigger pockets.

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Re: Genesis V2100 - Assault & Battery - Illegal in all 50 St

Post by 100volts+ » Feb 18 2015 5:37am

I hate to say - talk to a lawyer because i just felt them prices jump 10% but if you sell only parts and not even all to build the thing, i think you have fairly liability, especially RC batteries if you are not the OEM. If you ever get hit, they will and they'd likely be the bigger pockets.
I don't think he is going to build the bike or even sell RC batteries, only parts and then he would only have the same liability as the 2 million other people who sell kits. Plus I think that is why he started Kinaye. It will be separate from his personnel assets.
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