JP spot welder

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markz   100 GW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by markz » Sep 07 2015 1:08pm

I have a sour taste in my mouth about McMaster.com, because I'm Canadian eh!

High-Strength 182 Copper sounds good!
Until I read this
This material cannot be soldered, brazed, or welded. It can be heat treated

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 07 2015 2:30pm

Well that's actually good, soldering is not needed since my electrodes use screws to hold the tips, so that should be the right grade! :)
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litespeed   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by litespeed » Sep 07 2015 3:56pm

I believe I posted this here somewhere before but here it again from Sunstone Engineering, the spot welder that everyone wants.

Thank you for contacting Sunstone Engineering. The electrodes that we recommend using for welding nickel battery tabs is Glidcop, it is a copper/chromium mix. We have special electrodes that we sell for battery welding, part number EL125BATT. These are 1/8” shaft with a 1/16” welding surface on either end. You can find them on our website here:
http://sunstoneengineering.com/products ... lectrodes/

After I put these on my 10k amp spot welder my welds went from crap to so professional I think everyone needs to know about them. If they fit Riba's holders they would probably be the best you could hope for. They last long also.

Tom
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18650dude   1 mW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by 18650dude » Sep 07 2015 3:57pm

When we perform a weld operation, we see a spark. This must be a piece of Nickel or Copper material burning up. So I would expect the tips to wear down over time.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by tomjasz » Sep 07 2015 4:36pm

litespeed wrote:I believe I posted this here somewhere before but here it again from Sunstone Engineering, the spot welder that everyone wants.

Thank you for contacting Sunstone Engineering. The electrodes that we recommend using for welding nickel battery tabs is Glidcop, it is a copper/chromium mix. We have special electrodes that we sell for battery welding, part number EL125BATT. These are 1/8” shaft with a 1/16” welding surface on either end. You can find them on our website here:
http://sunstoneengineering.com/products ... lectrodes/

After I put these on my 10k amp spot welder my welds went from crap to so professional I think everyone needs to know about them. If they fit Riba's holders they would probably be the best you could hope for. They last long also.

Tom
If I'm correct the Sunstone 3/16 are the fit.

I imagine if someone is welding 500 batteries the spendy Sunstone products may pay off but some have welded 600 batts with the JP copper rods with no problem. For me a beginner hobbiest, I have no welder envy for the Sunstone. I expect to build my 14s6p and 10s3p packs just fine with those provided. The Sunkko welders use 1" 2mm (need to confirm measurements)copper and Alumina Copper. Those last through scores of batts. Once the JP is dialed in to the nickel strips being used the welds are great. Unless we're doing production runs...but then again I've communicated with several here building batt packs for sale using the JP and Sunkko welders and copper tips. No issues. Perhaps your higher power unit needs them. Mine don't seem to for now. Good information for those copying your style of build. Thanks for that!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by bibo164 » Sep 07 2015 6:12pm

can you please put me on the list too?!

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Jason3 » Sep 07 2015 6:59pm

I'd like one too, can you put me on the list? :D

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 08 2015 1:21am

Ok guys, you are both on! :D


Electrode wearing also depends on whether you're welding thick or regular nickel. I noticed only very small (almost none) wear when welding 0.1 or 0.15 mm nickel. But 0.3, that's another story. But they are ways to avoid using such thick nickel.
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Rodney64   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 08 2015 3:15am

Ribba, my spot welder arrived today. Thanks it looks good. I'm still waiting for nickel, but it's should be here this week. I have absolutely no idea how to build this pack. I notice some cells are upside down so I need to get myself head around this.

I need to do something with my hands that's how I learn.
Last edited by Rodney64 on Sep 08 2015 3:25am, edited 1 time in total.

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2015 3:20am

I am trying to weld nickel plated copper, 0.16mm thickness.
i couldnt find it to buy so i had to make my own by electroplating copper shim/sheet.

using a dn10, im having some good results but i think a double pulse would be much better.

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 08 2015 4:05am

Rodney64 wrote:Ribba, my spot welder arrived today. Thanks it looks good. I'm still waiting for nickel, but it's should be here this week. I have absolutely no idea how to build this pack. I notice some cells are upside down so I need to get myself head around this.

I need to do something with my hands that's how I learn.

That's great, if you need some advice me and others are going to help you, no problem!
ridethelightning wrote:I am trying to weld nickel plated copper, 0.16mm thickness.
i couldnt find it to buy so i had to make my own by electroplating copper shim/sheet.

using a dn10, im having some good results but i think a double pulse would be much better.

I've never welded copper thicker than 0.1 mm, but it should be possible since 10 ms is enough fo 0.1 with two 45 Ah batteries.
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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2015 4:13am

with dn10 the 1.6mm copper welds ok, but it either blows through the back of the cell :shock:
or only just tacks on. I hve made some good welds but it seems a little tricky to repeat reliably

it may be just a matter of practice, but i think the dual pulse will help. it seems the blow-outs may be due to surface not being clean enough ,and causing an arc.
(although i always buff everthing clean and wash with alcohol.)

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 08 2015 4:32am

Yeah, that is problem with welding copper.
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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2015 5:07am

perhaps you have some more idea of why copper is more tricky?

i have already worked out that being more conductive, its harder to get it hot.

are there perhaps some other factors contributing?

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 08 2015 5:23am

Yeah, conductivity is the key. For successful weld you want some resistance in welding spots, because of resistance in currents path temperature rises and melts materials. That's why I can't weld 0.1 mm copper to another copper sheet even with highest setting.
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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2015 6:33am

this makes me think a really THICK coating of nickel on the copper might help(?)

perhaps ill try leaving my copper strip in the electroplate solution overnight :P

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2015 8:49am

just thought id post some pics of the electroplating here ...but it probably needs a thread of its own :D
Attachments
PICT0037.JPG
0.16mm copper foil in nickel acetate(made by dissolving nickel in vinegar with a pich of salt and some 18vdc) there is a piece of .3mm nickle strip for the annode
PICT0037.JPG (84.31 KiB) Viewed 1998 times
PICT0041.JPG
half coated after a short while,~half hour..its a big piece so its a little slow. couple of no-brand 18650s used for the plating current
PICT0041.JPG (88.39 KiB) Viewed 1998 times
PICT0038.JPG
smaller piece fully coated. note the mark where the aligator clip was that stayed uncoated
PICT0038.JPG (81.1 KiB) Viewed 1998 times

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marty   100 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by marty » Sep 08 2015 9:16am

Rodney64 wrote:Ribba, my spot welder arrived today. Thanks it looks good. I'm still waiting for nickel, but it's should be here this week. I have absolutely no idea how to build this pack. I notice some cells are upside down so I need to get myself head around this.

I need to do something with my hands that's how I learn.
Drawing a 3D picture of how batteries are laid out can be tricky. My plan is to use dead batteries and nickle strips patterns made from paper to get a visual idea of how batteries will be connected together. Tape the paper to the batteries.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by tomjasz » Sep 08 2015 9:59am

Rodney64 wrote:Ribba, my spot welder arrived today. Thanks it looks good. I'm still waiting for nickel, but it's should be here this week. I have absolutely no idea how to build this pack. I notice some cells are upside down so I need to get myself head around this.

I need to do something with my hands that's how I learn.
I've started working on schematics for several designs. I propose we start a thread with layouts and designs. There's more to learn about the nickel layout and layers.

See mat's page and the battery building thread for more. http://www.ebikeschool.com/how-to-build ... 650-cells/

What are you hoping to build?

There also a couple of videos of a 48V 13s4p build by Damien in Spain.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Headrc » Sep 08 2015 11:08am

I believe I asked to be put on the list for availability on this …but if not please do that.

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Boestin » Sep 08 2015 12:47pm

hey, put me on the list too! :D

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Craigh85 » Sep 08 2015 3:57pm

Can I be put on the list also. Cheers

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by tomjasz » Sep 08 2015 4:20pm

ridethelightning wrote:this makes me think a really THICK coating of nickel on the copper might help(?)

perhaps ill try leaving my copper strip in the electroplate solution overnight :P
A thread with more detail would be GREAT! Nice! Thanks!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by riba2233 » Sep 09 2015 3:47am

Boestin wrote:hey, put me on the list too! :D
Craigh85 wrote:Can I be put on the list also. Cheers

You're on! :)
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Rodney64   1 MW

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Re: JP spot welder

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 09 2015 6:37am

tomjasz wrote:
Rodney64 wrote:Ribba, my spot welder arrived today. Thanks it looks good. I'm still waiting for nickel, but it's should be here this week. I have absolutely no idea how to build this pack. I notice some cells are upside down so I need to get myself head around this.

I need to do something with my hands that's how I learn.
I've started working on schematics for several designs. I propose we start a thread with layouts and designs. There's more to learn about the nickel layout and layers.

See mat's page and the battery building thread for more. http://www.ebikeschool.com/how-to-build ... 650-cells/

What are you hoping to build?

There also a couple of videos of a 48V 13s4p build by Damien in Spain.
Thanks tomjaz,'that's made it all a bit more clear.

The plans to build 2 packs, 36v 8p. Then series these together for 72 volt. So using the Samsung 25r cell this will give me a 20.8 amp/hr pack.


I haven't decided if I'm going to use the black plastic battery holders or use nickel strip. Using the plastic holders means that I can only go 5 cells wide. But not using the holders means I can go 6 wide. I have both options.'
For my first battery I think that I'll go with the black plastic holders. It will be easier and safer. I've been reading Matts battery building page and it's very well done.
I'll put a thread together for battery building and document some of the issues that I have along the way.

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