Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

[Merlin]

...all videos gone or private in this topic.


can anybody show me a video of the sound?

[BCTECH]

...all videos gone or private in this topic.


can anybody show me a video of the sound?

Merlin, this will need to carry loads of lipo at backpack, is that your style?

[briangv99]

...all videos gone or private in this topic.


can anybody show me a video of the sound?

This vid gives a good idea what it sounds like from a few metres

Merlin, this will need to carry loads of lipo at backpack, is that your style?

a backpack battery isn't mandatory

Nukeproof 16ah Turnigy Graphene.jpg (161.4 KiB) Viewed 5095 times

[Sloppy Floyd]

Brian,

Can you give me details on your battery setup...I've been looking at the Graphenes for this motor. Also, how do you like them? How fast do go through the battery with mostly throttle? Thanks!

[Merlin]

...all videos gone or private in this topic.


can anybody show me a video of the sound?

Merlin, this will need to carry loads of lipo at backpack, is that your style?

*bahaha looks like my reputation is going in front of me

iam still searching for a freaking light setup, and that looks like a deal (except of the price *wtf*)

i have a 9kg mtb without motor here. 12Kg for complete bike would be great at a 3-4kw power level.

[Merlin]

in this pump track video the sound would be ok.
but i found on youtube other videos they was 3 or 4 times louder then a BBSHD.
"electricbike" have a video up with it and this sounds really loud.

i was expecting a really high whining sound.(like i know from electric RC planes)
but thats total different.

[briangv99]

Brian,

Can you give me details on your battery setup...I've been looking at the Graphenes for this motor. Also, how do you like them? How fast do go through the battery with mostly throttle? Thanks!

don't want to go too far off topic here, I'll send a PM

Merlin, it's more of a growl/thrashing sound than your typical outrunner whine. It seems more audible on the bike, mostly walkers don't even notice or turn around in my experience.

[tangentdave]

In Bruno's video he's riding the first customer gearbox, literally #1. I've easily made over 100 gearboxes since then, 60 out to customers, the rest for testing, quality has improved and continues to. It's no noisier than a cyclone gearbox and way less annoying.

I removed the old videos cause they're not representative anymore, I owe you guys more. They're coming, I'm working at this thing 12hrs a day.


-dave

[Blue Ice Bike]

Has anyone tested this kit vs a BBSDHD with 2500 watt controller?

Tangent seems like to be the highest end kit available. Are there any tests or reviews comparing it to other high performance kits?

[merkur]

This drive looks great! Is it still available in the 3kw version? All I see in the store is the 6kw unit.... How much is the 3kw unit going for now? Thanks

[tangentdave]

Website update in progress, the kits are still available. 3kW is $1950, 6kW is $2300. PAS is now an option for the 3kW kits, see here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70099&start=525#p1263308

[spiros]

I want one of these beasts.
I'm waiting the next arrivals.

[spiros]

What is the advantage of the 6kw motor respect the smaller one?

I want to buy the 6kw motor not for running at 6kw but for being able to run at 3kw without stressing the motor.

I will use the lipo multistar battery in 12S 16Ah. What do you think about?

[tangentdave]

You can always use an electric motor at less than the rated power. Both the 3210 and 3220 motors make the same torque per amp, the larger motor has less internal resistance (thicker gauge phase wire) and so can pass more phase current. The other variable is the reduction ratio between the motor and crankset (really the wheel, but if you're using a derailleur, you're able to alter the motor->wheel ratio). The larger motor allows for less reduction for the same wheel torque, so higher speeds are available.


-dave

[bh4801]

What is the advantage of the 6kw motor respect the smaller one?

I want to buy the 6kw motor not for running at 6kw but for being able to run at 3kw without stressing the motor.

I will use the lipo multistar battery in 12S 16Ah. What do you think about?

Hi ES
Although I do not own a Tangent, the ride that I built is greatly inspired by Dave's build thread.
I ride a DH MTB with a 3210 powering a crankset via a 60:1 reduction, I feel in that regard my experience is "tangent" - pun intended.

Before I bought my first Astro I was concerned about killing the motor like yourself - no need to.
Astros deserve their reputation, they are high quality motors made to be run hard just as the spec sheet says - you do not need to baby them, just rip and have fun.
The larger motor weighs double and costs double, so save yourself weight and money, get the 3210 for 3 kW and have fun!

I ride PAS and no throttle, am reasonably fit for a +40 year old (I run 5 km in less than 24 minutes if that's an indication)
I do not know your riding style, but 3kW is enough to rip up a steep hill in middle gear at 30 km/h.
My 6-turn 3210 can do that for a minute or two with a rest to allow it to cool down from some 130 deg C, but be careful, this sort of power causes the chain to jump teeth on the smaller (<17T) cassette sprockets!
In contrast, 30 km/h in the woods slaloming between trees on a sandy singletrack requires 0,8 - 1,5kW.
My 3210 and 12S 16Ah Multistars can to this non-stop and the 3210 heats up to some 80ish deg C, the Talon to 60ish.
If you got the 3220, I presume you could see lower tempeatures, but then remember, Astros are rated up to 200 deg C!
They are NOT some cheap neodymium magnet outrunners that demagnetise above 100 deg C.

From my own experience 12S 16Ah Multistars are only strong enough for a 6-turn 3210 using a Talon HV 120A.
After +100 cycles I see 2-4 voltage sag at +90A battery currents with up to 3 V ripple towards the end of charge.
You can read elsewhere on the forum that user experience shows, the quoted C-rate of Hong Kong LiPo realistically is overrated by a factor of 4.
Therefore, realistically, with low voltage sag and little to no ripple and no battery overheating:
16Ah x 10 C-rate / 4 derating = 40A continuous no voltage sag and up to 2000W battery power
16Ah x 20 C-rate / 4 derating = 80A peak 10 seconds 3500W battery power due to voltage sag

If you are going to pedal along with PAS, the 3210 will outrun you own heart, that's certain.
If you are a throttle rider, get the 3220 with a Nanotech Lipo or parallel Multistars.
Just my 2 cents backed up with personal experience.

[spiros]

Thanks bh4801 I found really interesting your consideration based on experience...
Anyway I love throttle not think that I need a pas but you create a greater dilemma between these two motors....
You see, motors are like girls....it will be great having both of them!!!!!

[tangentdave]

Agreed, excellent summary and thanks for the experience. I also find the HK multistars a bit weak in the C rate...

MOAR BATTERY

[Mugenski]

Multistars are one of the worst batteries from HK. In the multirotor community we have searched far and wide for the best cells and I can say that the multistars weren't the king of output but they do offer great value.

I got a smoking deal on some cells from Tattu for my tangent built. If you keep an eye on their site you can find some good prices if your willing to build your own harness. They do sell large packs (16ah, 20+ah) like the multistars however the best price I've found is usually on the smaller stuff. Building a harness isn't difficult and it gives me the option to run various sized packs. I grabbed a little over 1.5kwh for around 440USD which is plenty for me. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if I end up splitting it into two packs. Even after a split they should have no issue providing the amperage I need for a tangent setup.

[Ham]

Just a very short video and sound clip of the early 3220 kit:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZblfs0n9DD/

[totolito]

Hello everybody!

I searched since a long time (~2012) a motor kit for my bike, and already many years ago I looked on a RC motor, which brought me to the Matt's kit. Unfortunatly at this date I had no bike and no money... I got the first 2 years ago but the second came just for this Christmas. So I decided to get the Dave's kit... but out of stock -__-'

Fortunatly, I saw that Dave is working on the Next Gen.

I allow myself to ask a few questions about it because I have not found any information about it.

Dave
- What are you preparing for us!!!?
- From the moment if I pre-order early December, when do you think the kits will leave your office?



Last point concerning the choice of batteries, I ruffle on the small 52V 6Ah that offers lunacycle.
In your opinion, with the current kit of 3kW, how much autonomy can I expect on a forested course, with little pedaling (wide estimate)?



Thanks for all, long live the forum !

[tangentdave]

I will be posting updates soon. There are quite a few changes that need testing before I can call them improvements. The wait will be worth it....


-dave

[totolito]

Hello!

Someone knows if the tangent is compatible with my Hollowtech crankset

thanks

[Electrick]

Wow, just wow. I had heard a lot about this drive but never really looked at it.
All my builds have been with the ubiquitous overseas motors and kits.
Have some cash coming back...This might be a project I'll find a bike to fit.

Elegance and power. Such a joy when it all comes together.

[progrock]

Oh, man... I've been working on a cyclone 3000w build... attempting to keep the bike as light as possible (my apartment building doesn't have an elevator... and def don't wnt a 100lb beast to carry up/down the stairs). But....

This thing is a beauty, wish it was a little cheaper, but none the less... I might have to preorder on of the when they start taking them.

Are the spec's listed anywhere... weight, top speed, etc. I'm assuming this would fit on a 73mm english threaded BB?

I might have to move the cyclone off this bike, and put it on another. The bike I have for it seems like it would be pretty damn perfect for this. A pretty high end, single speed mountain bike (it's actually somewhat old, depending on what you consider old... but has some pretty damn nice parts on it, chris king hubs, and other things that I probably would not have been willing to pay for new, but got a pretty good deal on this thing used, but in great condition)

Is this setup gonna be something like 2k?... Any discounts for endless sphere users, or preorders in general?

[progrock]

Oh, man... I've been working on a cyclone 3000w build... attempting to keep the bike as light as possible (my apartment building doesn't have an elevator... and def don't wnt a 100lb beast to carry up/down the stairs). But....

This thing is a beauty, wish it was a little cheaper, but none the less... I might have to preorder on of the when they start taking them.

Are the spec's listed anywhere... weight, top speed, max V and A, etc. I'm assuming this would fit on a 73mm english threaded BB?

I might have to move the cyclone off this bike, and put it on another. The bike I have for it seems like it would be pretty damn perfect for this. A pretty high end, single speed mountain bike (it's actually somewhat old, depending on what you consider old... but has some pretty damn nice parts on it, chris king hubs, and other things that I probably would not have been willing to pay for new, but got a pretty good deal on this thing used, but in great condition)

Is this setup gonna be something like 2k?... Any discounts for endless sphere users, or preorders in general?

What other RC mid drive kits are there out there?... I had no idea they had so much potential, I kinda thought they might be used for some small/weak pedal assist setups... def not something a serious as this. I am totally drooling over it. I also have the perfect batteries to run this.... as I said trying to keep things light (but even with the cyclone, wanted 3,000W+), and 95% of my rides will be relatively short, so don't need high mAh... making use out of Bosch 6.3aH 18V battery packs, that have Sanyo 20700A cells (30A continuous per a cell) in a 20s2p config (literally 4 in series, with connections beefed up a little) .. and if this thing handles it, and it would make sense, could beef it up to a 24s2p, that could handle 60A continuous, though I am assuming that wouldn't be necessary for more than short bursts most of the time