Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

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progrock   100 W

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by progrock » Nov 22 2017 6:32pm

Oh, man... I've been working on a cyclone 3000w build... attempting to keep the bike as light as possible (my apartment building doesn't have an elevator... and def don't wnt a 100lb beast to carry up/down the stairs). But....

This thing is a beauty, wish it was a little cheaper, but none the less... I might have to preorder on of the when they start taking them.

Are the spec's listed anywhere... weight, top speed, max V and A, etc. I'm assuming this would fit on a 73mm english threaded BB?

I might have to move the cyclone off this bike, and put it on another. The bike I have for it seems like it would be pretty damn perfect for this. A pretty high end, single speed mountain bike (it's actually somewhat old, depending on what you consider old... but has some pretty damn nice parts on it, chris king hubs, and other things that I probably would not have been willing to pay for new, but got a pretty good deal on this thing used, but in great condition)

Is this setup gonna be something like 2k?... Any discounts for endless sphere users, or preorders in general?

What other RC mid drive kits are there out there?... I had no idea they had so much potential, I kinda thought they might be used for some small/weak pedal assist setups... def not something a serious as this. I am totally drooling over it. I also have the perfect batteries to run this.... as I said trying to keep things light (but even with the cyclone, wanted 3,000W+), and 95% of my rides will be relatively short, so don't need high mAh... making use out of Bosch 6.3aH 18V battery packs, that have Sanyo 20700A cells (30A continuous per a cell) in a 20s2p config (literally 4 in series, with connections beefed up a little) .. and if this thing handles it, and it would make sense, could beef it up to a 24s2p, that could handle 60A continuous, though I am assuming that wouldn't be necessary for more than short bursts most of the time

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by macribs » Nov 23 2017 3:38am

For this mid drive to perform at its absolute highest, voltage is not the answer. As the best matched controller (hv 160 esc) can't go above 50 or so volt the cap is on the esc not the motor mind you) But don't worry, those small sized astro mtors can take current like you woldn't belive. So much so that you would wanne scramble together the best high C rated cells for battery as you can get. Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC5 or VTC 6 will do wonders. Even lipo bricks. I now see you got batteries sorted by using 20700 A from sanyo. Nice! High c rate is what will bring supreme acceleration to this bad boy. 12s max and higher parallell to really make the Astro motor shine.

Look up various builds by matt to see extreme 20+ kw builds with Astro motors. ES nick recumpence

Here is one of the power builds Matt did with Astro motor, viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82936

Now imagine you get Dave's gearbox as well. You can climb pretty much anything you got traction to climb. You get a super light package, fears acceleration etc.

progrock   100 W

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by progrock » Nov 23 2017 2:21pm

Thanks for the info... and yeah these batteries are beasts... and if it's amps, not volts needed for these, easy enough to turn a 20s2p to a 10s4p... or could go crazy with a 10s8p, or even just a 10s6p. The 4p wouldn't have much issue doing 120A (and that's based off of continuous speced numbers, that have been tested and proven... I'm not even sure what kind of burst they can do). Given, I'd prefer not to run them near their max much, but guessing something around 75% really would not be that bad. Well... I got lots research to do (aka. drooling over these setups). I have a feeling I won't have the will power to say no when the preorders start... tho, if I did say no, the second they are sold out, i'd probably be regretting it, haha. I'm gonna keep looking through all the RC build (seems like I keep circling back here as I'm doing that... lots of people using Tangent parts in their builds... usually a good sign.

EDIT: OK, this is driving me crazy, where the frock is tangent motor company located?... I can't find that info anywhere. I searched their website, google... I even did a whois lookup on their domain... the fact that it's not on their website is just weird in the first place, but not mentioned anywhere I looked. Dave, you guys seriously should have that on the site... gotta represent, show some pride for wherever it is... unless you're in Jersey, then I understand the non-disclosure (a joke.... sorta)

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Mugenski » Nov 23 2017 3:06pm

Dave is west coast. At least I want to say my stuff was shipped from Oregon but I may be wrong there.

I'd say speccing the pack for 150A continuous rating wouldn't be a bad idea. The kit will use all the power you make available to it until your drive train says no more. For fun I upped the CA limit to 200A to see what the kit could really pull. Pulled all 200A, motor didn't care however the talon doesn't like pushing that much current and triggered an alarm.

Low gearing, throttle passthru and a high amp setting on the CA really turn this kit into more of a motorcycle than it is already. I need to get the gopro out and show the insane hill climbing ability. It's really something else.

Also to anyone running a 3 pos switch and profiles on the CA... Don't switch profiles with the throttle enabled. The CA temporarily goes WOT until the PID loop kicks in. Gave me a bit of a fright :shock:
Last edited by Mugenski on Nov 23 2017 5:20pm, edited 1 time in total.
Giant Glory Tangent ∞kw @ 52v

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by macribs » Nov 23 2017 4:01pm

I am not sure what consensus is about CA and tangentdrives but I don't think Matt are using those for his Astro builds. Rather he squeezes as much current as possible from the pack directly via the Hv 160 esc. If you have the option not to skimp on the parallell cells embrace it and go big. Especially if you want to go hard and fast. That extra amp will really take things to crazy town.

I see some are using 14 s with the tangentdrive, those guys running the Talon ESC @ 240A. I think the more amp you are pushing to more careful you need to explore the high voltage limit for the esc. Just check with Dave he got this pretty much dialed in to the letter. He will know what max values to use with your battery pack.

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Nov 26 2017 4:28pm

Using the CA with a shunt on the battery gives great torque control without any slipper clutch. I prefer a fast throttle response on the ESC and CA while using 'current control'. Pass-thru mode does give a hell of a punch anytime the throttle position is changed, but personally I still prefer the controllability of the shunt for trail riding. The throttle response with these settings is not like an FOC controller- low RPMs don't need much throttle input to produce good torque (phase amps) since the CA is increasing the ESC throttle signal until the desired battery output power is reached (as dictated by throttle position and the max amps setpoint). The Talon ESC has a 240A peak current limit setpoint. I believe most of the heat generated in the Castle ESC's is due to not using active rectification in their design, but they do have a good cooling design (for RC ESC's).

progrock, I'm up in Seattle. The website needs a big overhaul, which I'll get to when I'm ready for orders again so the pictures and details and such are accurate.


-dave
GGMT/Tangent 8kW
tangentmotors.com

totolito   100 mW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by totolito » Dec 01 2017 5:29am

We look forward!

:roll:

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by aCeMadMod » May 19 2018 10:22am

bump up he got new revs gearboxs 8)

I am buy new rev ones

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Ham » Oct 08 2018 2:27am

Dave,

if you could have any battery for the 3220 set up which would you choose to handle the amp draw?

I am considering an 18650 (not sure on which ones yet) build but can't help but wonder if they are truly a better option than quality lipo bricks with a high c rating....
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Andrewol   100 W

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Andrewol » Feb 11 2019 2:13pm

Still no news from 2017?

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by SlowCo » Feb 11 2019 4:50pm

Andrewol wrote:
Feb 11 2019 2:13pm
Still no news from 2017?
Eeh, you might want to check out this thread...: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70099&start=1350

funbicycle50   100 µW

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Seattle-made Tangent Ascent motor

Post by funbicycle50 » Jul 19 2020 1:22am

Where can I contact the person who sells the Tangent Ascent ebike kits? I heard they have Astro Flight motors in them. The contact page lists no information but I heard that a man named Dave makes and sells the kits.

https://tangentmotors.com/contact

from

https://www.electricbike.com/tangent-ascent/
Last edited by mark5 on Jul 19 2020 1:40am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Moved post to Tangent motor kit forsale topic.

2old   100 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by 2old » Jul 19 2020 1:22pm

Tangentdave used to participate in the forum regularly, but not lately. Appears as though he's "flown the coop".

funbicycle50   100 µW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by funbicycle50 » Jul 19 2020 6:17pm

2old wrote:
Jul 19 2020 1:22pm
Tangentdave used to participate in the forum regularly, but not lately. Appears as though he's "flown the coop".
Do you think Tangentdave is the same person related to the Tangent Ascent ebike motor kits? By "flown the coop" do you mean that he stopped making ebike motors altogether?

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marty   10 MW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by marty » Jul 19 2020 7:57pm

Tangentdave might be the best one to answer this question. Try sending him a private message. To do that you click on his name. Here is a link:
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=43947
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fatty   100 W

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by fatty » Jan 09 2021 5:20am

For anyone still using these drives, I posted a gearing calculator which includes Tangent here.
Don't take advice from:
there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way
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