Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Sep 12 2015 3:56pm

Hey Rickkerb, test ride no problem. I'm out of town for Interbike next week, Sep 24th or so. Airflow to the motor is pretty helpful in keeping it cool so I don't have any plans to make something to cover up the cooling fins. If you already have a controller you'd like to use, the barebones kit is available for $700 without motor or $1170 with the Astro Flight. I can provide you the mounting bolt patterns so you can cut your own mounts.

If anybody out there is going to be at Interbike next week, I'll be there with the two bikes. PM me and we can set up a time to demo.

-dave
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tangentmotors.com

allezdude   1 mW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by allezdude » Sep 18 2015 4:07am

Hope,this isn't a dumb question, but can you run this unit as PAS? Pedal assist

Very sweet setup you have there.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Sep 18 2015 11:43am

The kit uses a Cycle Analyst, so yes you could set up PAS. I don't have any plans on testing/developing PAS for the kit, I love having the independent throttle with this much torque.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by fredfire » Oct 10 2015 12:30pm

Hello,

I find this unit very interesting compared to the competitors.

As a commuter I want to know if this is waterproof? Have you waterproofed the ESC?

Thanks

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Oct 10 2015 1:27pm

I'd call it water resistant. Liquid electrical tape is supremely useful stuff. I ride in the rain and mud, wash the bike with a hose and sponge, no issues. Maybe don't pressure wash the electronics? The drive and motor are sealed, the Cycle Analyst gets the same 'custom' waterproofing treatment.
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by cwah » Dec 01 2015 9:28pm

needs to be as silent as the bbshd

ecycler   10 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by ecycler » Dec 02 2015 11:17am

Nice kit! What kind of chains are you using and how are they holding up with mileage?
Any grease is better than no grease.
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Brentis   10 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Brentis » Dec 02 2015 11:39am

cwah wrote:needs to be as silent as the bbshd
Why?
This is a different tool, for different folks.
I like the sound it makes. If I want silent I ride a hub.
Id not feel as good about my Ferrari if it sounded like a Honda Civic.
Sounds, vibrations and feel can make a ride special for some. I don't approve, but I still love the sound of a tuned two stroke.
I think Dave has something special, something different to the Bafang masses.
Something that sounds and feels special, like a Ferrari. Compared to the mass marketed easy for everyone Bafang, Civic.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Dec 02 2015 12:49pm

What kind of chains are you using and how are they holding up with mileage?
I've switched the motor chain back to 3/32" so I could get it closer to the mounting plate and use the same chain as I do on the bike driveline (easier trail maintenance). I've been using a KMC X9 without issue, they seem to easily last the season. I highly recommend using nice chainrings, 7075 Aluminum at least (6061 sprockets don't last a season with pedal power; 7075 Al is twice the strength of 6061 Al). Depending on how hard you ride, you might also wear out a chainring each season as well. Easily replaced wear items- instead of spending the weekend opening up the Bafang to replace plastic gears, use that effort to replace the chain then get out and ride again. There is no other maintenance for this kit, for the life of the unit, there's no need to open it. If you want to, all you need is a flat blade screwdriver to disassemble/reassemble the entire gearbox.
Id not feel as good about my Ferrari if it sounded like a Honda Civic
:wink:
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Dec 02 2015 12:52pm

Brentis wrote:
cwah wrote:needs to be as silent as the bbshd
Why?
This is a different tool, for different folks.
I like the sound it makes. If I want silent I ride a hub.
Id not feel as good about my Ferrari if it sounded like a Honda Civic.
Sounds, vibrations and feel can make a ride special for some. I don't approve, but I still love the sound of a tuned two stroke.
I think Dave has something special, something different to the Bafang masses.
Something that sounds and feels special, like a Ferrari. Compared to the mass marketed easy for everyone Bafang, Civic.
To each their own. Sure, I want my Ferrari to sound like a Ferrari, but I want my Tesla Model S to sound like a Model S, not a Ferrari. Part of the advantage of the Model S is accelerating to the speed limit without drawing any attention.

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by macribs » Dec 02 2015 1:45pm

There ain't no law saying you can not accelerate quickly up to speed limit, loud sound or no sound :wink:
I love the acceleration on a Tesla as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't mind a Saleen GTX version with it's high pitched tone.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by ecycler » Dec 02 2015 2:36pm

macribs wrote:There ain't no law saying you can not accelerate quickly up to speed limit, loud sound or no sound :wink:
False. I got a careless driving ticket one time for doing exactly that, got it knocked down from 'contest of speed' despite having no one else in the "contest" with me. :evil: I did not break my tires loose or surpass the speed limit. Just accelerated hard under full control in a hot car.
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

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Brentis   10 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Brentis » Dec 02 2015 3:55pm

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:
Brentis wrote:
cwah wrote:needs to be as silent as the bbshd
Why?
This is a different tool, for different folks.
I like the sound it makes. If I want silent I ride a hub.
Id not feel as good about my Ferrari if it sounded like a Honda Civic.
Sounds, vibrations and feel can make a ride special for some. I don't approve, but I still love the sound of a tuned two stroke.
I think Dave has something special, something different to the Bafang masses.
Something that sounds and feels special, like a Ferrari. Compared to the mass marketed easy for everyone Bafang, Civic.
To each their own. Sure, I want my Ferrari to sound like a Ferrari, but I want my Tesla Model S to sound like a Model S, not a Ferrari. Part of the advantage of the Model S is accelerating to the speed limit without drawing any attention.
So you know the tool you want.
You are not messaging Ferrari telling them it's too loud. You need to make it sound more like a model S, I hope.
Point is some of us like the sound and or want to be heard.
Daves drive has it. Go gentle, be quite. Go hard, get loud.
Plus all the power a bike drivetrain can be expected to survive.

Haven't had a chance to say it, but great work Dave.
Keeping us informed and being so open about the development.
You've added one more excellent option to serious ebike fun.
Truly appreciate your passion and contribution to this community.

r3volved   100 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by r3volved » Dec 02 2015 4:19pm

ecycler wrote:False. I got a careless driving ticket one time for doing exactly that, got it knocked down from 'contest of speed' despite having no one else in the "contest" with me. :evil: I did not break my tires loose or surpass the speed limit. Just accelerated hard under full control in a hot car.
AHAHAHA I got nailed with the same in my old sunfire! Hilariously, my bike's acceleration would destroy that old junk sunfire!!

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Dec 02 2015 5:00pm

Brentis wrote:
So you know the tool you want.
You are not messaging Ferrari telling them it's too loud. You need to make it sound more like a model S, I hope.
The problem is, none of the tools do everything I want, so I need to make compromises and see if I can use the tools in a way that works for me. No i'm not telling Dave to change his drive, but I'm asking questions to understand what I would get and what I can do to make it work for my use case.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by macribs » Dec 02 2015 6:05pm

ecycler wrote:
macribs wrote:There ain't no law saying you can not accelerate quickly up to speed limit, loud sound or no sound :wink:
False. I got a careless driving ticket one time for doing exactly that, got it knocked down from 'contest of speed' despite having no one else in the "contest" with me. :evil: I did not break my tires loose or surpass the speed limit. Just accelerated hard under full control in a hot car.
Well there are dicks and then there are real cops. Surely you met a real dick. I am not claiming to be a lawyer or know anything about US law but it would surprise me a lot if there really was any support for that ticket in any laws. And any decent layer should be able to convince the court that rapid acceleration is in fact a good way to drive safe - like keeping up with traffic, etc.

Maybe the dick had a fight with his wife that morning, or he got angry because he was not driving a nice car such as you. But a real asshole cop could probably pull you over and write you a bullshit ticket even if you where driving a Tesla at the time of the ticket.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by ecycler » Dec 02 2015 6:56pm

Prepare to be surprised, then. There is a specific law on the books called exhibition of acceleration in many states:
https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=exhi ... eleration/

It is totally up to the officer to decide if he wants to ticket you for it or not as it is an impossible thing for them to measure or quantify from patrol car. I think I really got the ticket due to a phenomenon called 'jealousy is a bitch.'
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by BobTheBuilder » Dec 06 2015 11:27pm

I need a gear ruction set up for a mid drive I'm working on. You know where I can purchase the goods?

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Dec 07 2015 12:04pm

The Tangent gearbox is set up to hold an Astro Flight motor only and it can be pretty wild. http://tangentmotors.com is the store front with more info.

-dave
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Ham » Feb 19 2016 9:09pm

Hi Dave

Lovely looking piece of kit you've put together here.

I am mid way through deciding between your kit and the lightning rod kit and am just gathering as much information as i can.

Could you answer me these when you can. ..

I'll be riding in the UK amongst woodland which is pretty much wet and muddy all year round. ..how water tight is your kit?

Could the motor be swapped out the brackets for the 3220 in the future?

Am i right in thinking the motor and kit is limited to c50v and achieves top speeds of about 40mph depending on gearing?

I realise this thread has been quiet a while so perhaps I'll pop these questions in a pm to you also.

Thanks in advance

H
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by macribs » Feb 19 2016 9:59pm

The voltage is only limited by the ESC really.
As to swap motor for a 3220 it should fit right in, same size as the 3210 only longer so the 3220 will protrude more then the smaller sibling.
Last edited by macribs on Feb 20 2016 3:03am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Feb 20 2016 1:32am

The kit is pretty water tight. There are 3 in the UK and I've seen the kind of mud they deal with...The drive (gearbox+motor) are watertight, I blast them with the hose. The only thing not to blast with the hose is the ESC and CA, get those wet then use a rag or sponge. Rain and splash are just fine. When I have the HV80 open to solder the CA connector in place, I give it a dose of liquid electrical tape to seal the ends off. The exposed motor chain is susceptible to picking up mud, I'll work on a cover as soon as I can.

The 3210 and 3220 are interchangeable. The 3220 fits between the cranks using 148mm Truvativ Gigapipe spindles. 40mph is well within reach of the 3210- this kit is gearing limited. The 3220 is best used with a 20:1 gearbox, which I'm testing now. The lower ratio means twice the speed with the same torque (since the 3220 can handle double the current of the 3210) at the expense of carrying more battery to handle the extra current. The 20:1 and 40:1 ratios are also interchangeable with little fuss.

The voltage of the system is limited by the ESC and the motor wind matches the 50V. Conveniently there are also battery packs and charging equipment to match the 50V. I recommend people use a 14S 52V pack from LunaCycle but they don't ship overseas yet due to shipping restrictions, I know they're working on finishing the certifications. 12S LiPo works great also and is cheap, it's what I'm personally using because I have them already but 14S is a nice performance bump. The CA can limit the max system current to match your battery's capacity with only a few buttons. The torque scales linearly with current so if your pack is 30A max, you should expect 87.5 ft-lbs at the crankset. That's 118Nm from a drive that weighs less than 3 kilos, and that's only half the torque the system can produce. And it's ooooh so controllable :)


-dave
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tangentmotors.com

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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Ham » Feb 20 2016 3:26am

Thanks for such an indepth and fast reply.

Is the speed controller easily removable then for cleaning the bike? I'm assuming it is just a quick connector to unplug.

40 mph being reachable with the right gearing; gearing in the gearbox attached to the motor or bike chainwheel and cassette gearing limitations?

I've spoken with luna about a battery and was informed about the UK shipping but wasn't informed about the certification happening. Good news if it isn't far off...i can't find a decent battery in the UK, nay, the EU!

So you're testing a 3220 kit? Any time scales in mind? UK test bunny here!

87 ft lbs is double my dirt bike :) fun! I thought I'd read that it cranks out 200ftlbs somehwere?! Possibly wrong with that and I've got confused. ..apologies but I've been reading for days!

Thanks again
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by tangentdave » Feb 20 2016 12:14pm

The 200ft-lbs is correct- this the calculated torque at 60A the drive will put into the crankset (this number is with the 16t motor freewheel). Between the crank and the rear wheel we usually gear up most of the time (except for the huge granny gears) which reduces our wheel torque but increases wheel speed. With the 18t motor freewheel and 60A I calculate 175ft-lbs into the crank with a max cadence of 145RPM. Dirt bikes are about 40ft-lbs and 8000 RPM (which is like 40,000W). The top speed is driven by the crankset RPM and the size of the front chainring on the bicycle driveline. Some people like a big front chainring with lower crank RPM so they can pedal with, some people increase the crank RPM and don't pedal, the system is very customizable to you're preferences. Most setups the bicycle gearing will be the limiting factor (the motor will top out in any gear almost anywhere).

The ESC is technically removable, but I didn't have that in mind when I hid the screws on the back side of the mounting plate. It could be covered easily, saran wrap would do it, wrap it around the mount over the electronics...

-dave
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Re: Tangent Motors RC mid drive kit

Post by Ham » Feb 20 2016 7:48pm

Thank you, the more I read the more I understand.

What size freewheel does the motor ship with?

I may be being dumb so bear with me....I see only one gear on the chainset or am I missing something?

Are there any videos of a current set up being used...I'd like to hear what it sounds like...I'd ideally like as stealthy as possible.

I have postage questions too but I'll drop you a pm.

Thank you
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