upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by ridethelightning » Mar 04 2016 3:11am

really nice maddin!
been waiting for this to come out

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » Apr 30 2016 9:42am

A thing of beauty Maddin. I was talking to my machinist about such a thing , then I opened the mxus thread and there it is! A lot of my riding will involve the big hills , so this, with a radiator, is a must for my bike. At this time I have a V1 and I'm hoping it can be upgraded into a powerplant, if not ill kick out the cash for V2,V3 . Do you (or anyone) know if this axel will work in the V1, V3? Also I'm wondering if the V2 windings differ a whole lot from this V1, Ill ask on the mxus thread also. Luv your work, when I order this, could you throw in one of your eaton chargers?(just kidding) thnx doug

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Offroader » Apr 30 2016 1:48pm

You want to water cool your MXUS?

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by madin88 » Apr 30 2016 2:32pm

douglashart wrote:Do you (or anyone) know if this axel will work in the V1, V3? Also I'm wondering if the V2 windings differ a whole lot from this V1,
yes it should be compatible with V1.
About V3 i'm not sure, but i think it's not because the distance between the bearings is wider on this motor (it has different sidecovers). But maybe it fits with the aid of washers.
The windings or copper fill should normally be the same on all three versions (for instance 15x4 turns or 16x4 turns). though V3 has the benefit of a little bit stronger magnets, thicker phase wires and dual hall sensors, but it still come with M14 on the flat part and not M16.
Offroader wrote:You want to water cool your MXUS?
same question :o
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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 01 2016 12:30am

I'm thinking a closed system with a pump and radiator. probably oil.

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 01 2016 12:42am

I want to bounce this off you guys. plans change, but what I'm looking to do is run tubing up under the coils, on both sides, and burying it there with JB weld or some such , then pumping hot fluid out. Could it be that simple? or effective?

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Offroader » May 01 2016 1:53am

douglashart wrote:I want to bounce this off you guys. plans change, but what I'm looking to do is run tubing up under the coils, on both sides, and burying it there with JB weld or some such , then pumping hot fluid out. Could it be that simple? or effective?
That could work, I guess if you use copper tubing and then thermal epoxy it to the windings. That would work better than running the tubing inside the stator. This is assuming you have the space to run tubing right below the windings.

I'd consider using thermal epoxy instead of JB Weld.

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 01 2016 3:13am

Thx for the tip on thermal paste always gathering info here. srry , I meant the inside of the stator. Seems to me that 3 or 4 turns of 5 or 6 mm tubing buried in thermal paste around both sides should heat up some oil nicely, I may be wrong. I saw linukas post, but don't quite see or understand what he was doing there as far as the cooling.

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Kodin   1 kW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 02 2016 7:00pm

Thermal epoxy would be far more sturdy actually; I've seen it done once or twice for high powered motor builds to cool the stator with water circulation. It helps, but not as much as you might think. Further, the windings themselves might be better if they were fully potted as there's a lot of air gap with the stator in the first place.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Offroader » May 02 2016 8:27pm

You can make your own thermal epoxy for cheap. The stuff is expensive if you buy it made. You basically mix thermal paste and clear epoxy.
You should run some tests on it of course.

Water cooling would not be all that hard to do if you have the bigger axle to allow water hoses.

I would try it but I use a high powered electronic ducted fan to circulate lots of air through the motor and then exhaust out which works well so there is no need for me to try the water cooling.

It would be interesting to see how it compares.

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 03 2016 12:16pm

I noticed the windings on the v2 are 10 mm+/- off the stator , as compared to the v1 , the windings sit pretty much right on the stator. Ive not opened my motor but looking at pics (v1) it appears a water jacket could be welded around that would completely engulf the 45mm. I'm only speculating. Of course this could only happen prior to the stator being wound but I like china and an excuse to go back might be to find me a Chinese machinist located near MXUS. Ill ramble on. I'm thinking with some tabs welded on the perimeter(tween the spokes),as someone was doing by gluing them on in the mxus thread, and possibly more inside the sidecover to direct air over the windings it may be enough to serve my needs , pulling 20 amps over a mt pass. My bike was built with the intention of traveling so I don't want to open the sidecovers and possibly invite a mishap (mainly rain) while on the road.

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 03 2016 12:22pm

Srry to muddle your thread madin, ill stop. Can you tell me what is the largest tubing that could be used for cooling?

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by macribs » May 03 2016 5:47pm

My bike was built with the intention of traveling so I don't want to open the sidecovers and possibly invite a mishap (mainly rain) while on the road.
Seems consensus is that even an untouched stock motor might have corrosion if used in harsh environment. Moisture can travel in via wires, or even damp air and without any paint or epoxsy to cover up the internals the moisture might get "stucked" inside the motor after riding. So I think you will do no harm if you open up the motor, just lay a bead of sealant before closing the side covers, and maybe slap on some paint while you have it open. Flat black paint inside will also aid in heat transfer via radiation, more then stock side covers. Magnets, copper and stator could be coved in that red spray on paint, cant remember the name of it but it is great to withstand corrosion.

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Kodin   1 kW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 18 2016 12:28pm

It's high-temp motor laquer for the red stuff.

Flat black paint for the side-covers. (Krylon matte finish has a pretty damn nice thermal coefficient compared to high-end purpose made paints).

Also, Madin, here's my first (failed) prototype in 4340...

Image

Image

I under-cut two of the diameters I need. I'm using taper-lock bushings to hold the shaft since I'm building my own swing-arm from scratch. Heavy side (26mm) will be keyed, and necks down to 25mm for the bushing. Not sure I need a key on the cassette side, so I'll start without one for now. Cassette side is 15mm and will neck down to 14mm for the taper-lock bushing. Taper-lock's do a pretty decent job of holding as-is even without keys, but figure the thick side having a key isn't a bad thing. I'll need to try ball-end-mill slot cutting next, then make a second shaft with correct dimensions. This version was mostly to figure out speeds/feeds and accuracy of my tooling.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by macribs » May 18 2016 2:41pm

If you are building your own swing arm why not use clamps kind of like we see on forks for the 20 mm thru axles?
If you leave that much material rather then cutting the ends flat your axle should be super strong. If you worry axle will spin, you could pierce the axle via the clamp.

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Kodin   1 kW

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 23 2016 12:43am

Going to try it without keys first to see if the taper-locks can hold as-is. That'd be the easiest. They are rated for pretty decently high torques un-keyed...

Also, I want to simplify machining. Not having to make flats or threads speeds up build time by far. Yes the taper-lock bushings are MAJOR overkill, no, they are not necessary. Then again, neither is a 9-speed "freehub" cassette. :P

I also hate the idea of flats in the first place, because it's a kludge for compatibility into "standard" bike dropouts. There's like 30 other options in design if you abandon the idea of using bike dropout slots. Most importantly, you can easily run asymmetrical shaft ends like I will be without alignment issues.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Rix » May 23 2016 7:33am

madin88 wrote:markz, i have sent you a PM

budapest is the capital of the neighboring country hungary. the capital of austria would be vienna ;)
I missed this some how. Oh well, it reminded me of the time I spent in Paris Italy. Beautiful place, loved the Leaning Eiffel tower. :shock: :? :lol:

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » May 23 2016 10:38am

Ok, Martin is slotting an axel for me. I see that opening the sidecovers is a very good option for cooling , but , I just imagine being out in the middle of the desert and kicking a 3mm (or ??) rock into it. Seems to me it would have to go thru the grinder. Anyway, Ive put aside any plans for a closed (liquid)cooling system since I would agree that it would probably pull some heat but not enough. What I do intend to try now, is sealing the center of the stator and pumping outside air into the far side, which will then be forced over the windings, then exit via the axle. Similar to offroaders setup, as far as direction of air flow, but without opening the sidecovers. Of coarse ill not get the volume of air that he does but I think that replacing the air in the box every 2 or 3 seconds should prove fairly effective. NOW, I would have liked to post this on 'definitive testing' but theres nothing definitive about this noob speculating. ANYWAY, my main reason for this posting is to get feedback on this idea. Should the air not totally suit my needs, Ive thought of adding fog to the air from an atomizer. To do so, I would need to pot the stator of coarse to protect the halls and prevent the inevitable rust but what I really wonder is, could this short the phase wires? Just tinkering Thnx Doug

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 23 2016 2:23pm

I'd say if you want a sealed motor use some ferrofluid. Almost as good of cooling performance as venting. I have a full 10ml tube of it if you'd like to use some. It's the synthetic version rather than the ester version. Got it from Justin during the first sales batch. I know you're local to Portland, so we can find some time to meet up.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by devman » May 23 2016 4:05pm

i think 3806-2RS bearing is better for you axle .
http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inv ... RSTH9C3SRL

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 23 2016 4:52pm

I like the idea, but they are much more expensive. A pair of the narrower bearings are wider in depth, but still cheaper.
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Offroader » May 23 2016 7:23pm

douglashart wrote:Ok, Martin is slotting an axel for me. I see that opening the sidecovers is a very good option for cooling , but , I just imagine being out in the middle of the desert and kicking a 3mm (or ??) rock into it. Seems to me it would have to go thru the grinder. Anyway, Ive put aside any plans for a closed (liquid)cooling system since I would agree that it would probably pull some heat but not enough. What I do intend to try now, is sealing the center of the stator and pumping outside air into the far side, which will then be forced over the windings, then exit via the axle. Similar to offroaders setup, as far as direction of air flow, but without opening the sidecovers. Of coarse ill not get the volume of air that he does but I think that replacing the air in the box every 2 or 3 seconds should prove fairly effective. NOW, I would have liked to post this on 'definitive testing' but theres nothing definitive about this noob speculating. ANYWAY, my main reason for this posting is to get feedback on this idea. Should the air not totally suit my needs, Ive thought of adding fog to the air from an atomizer. To do so, I would need to pot the stator of coarse to protect the halls and prevent the inevitable rust but what I really wonder is, could this short the phase wires? Just tinkering Thnx Doug
Why do you think water cooling will not work? The water cooling would be on constantly cooling the motor, and the thermal mass of the aluminum stator will take the spikes in heat.

My cooling setup works very good and the more airflow the faster it cools. I usually just turn it on for small durations to cool the motor. With water cooling, you would leave it on all the time and it should work quite well and you will have a sealed motor.

I don't think a sealed motor is all that important. When I drilled my holes, I purposely made a lot of smaller holes to prevent anything large getting inside the motor. I never had trouble yet. However, I am not driving in the desert, but I don't think stuff really gets kicked into the side of the motor. With the motor spinning, it would probably push most of the stuff away. Try throwing a rock through a fan.

I have not read of a single person ruining their motor from the holes and most people drill large holes.

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by devman » May 24 2016 4:03am

Kodin wrote:I like the idea, but they are much more expensive. A pair of the narrower bearings are wider in depth, but still cheaper.
Just one . its twice better .

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by Kodin » May 24 2016 2:01pm

devman wrote:
Kodin wrote:I like the idea, but they are much more expensive. A pair of the narrower bearings are wider in depth, but still cheaper.
Just one . its twice better .
Understood, though availability of this specific bearing is scarce in my part of the world. I WOULD like to use that model of bearing had I started my conversion with it, because it doesn't require nearly as deep of boring of the side cover. That said, I would rather use a bearing I can source easily to replace. Might still consider it in the future though... side covers for these motors are pretty darn cheap to order spares for!
Tank Bike - (Previously YAG - Yet Another Genesis) - LeafBike 1500W 5t, custom shaft, 9 speed cassette, Chinese "Tank" EEB clone frame, Sabvoton SSC048150

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Re: upgrade Axle set for MXUS 3000 V2

Post by douglashart » Aug 07 2016 2:35pm

Hi Madden, Just thought id give your thread a bump. Hey, ive bunged up the seal on the axel (FW side) . Its how I pay for my ebike education. Anyone have any idea how to get ahold of these seals. How important are they? Anyone got a jury rig?

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