Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by icherouveim » Jun 08, 2017 3:54 am

Hello Again,
I will give you an example,
my previous pack made by 20AH - 20C pounch cells was 1kWh and the weight was 7.4 kg
my new battery pack is 2kWh made by samsung 30Q 18650 cells and the weight is 8.4 kg
So for 1 kg more I have the double capacity. You can see my battery pack at the following link.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=88373

you can have a similar one (different shape) for your frame.
Just do the maths to calculate the weights for both solutions to compare.

Also there is something else you have to consider, Lipo batteries are not so safe, look what happened to this unlucky guy some months ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRUC_05KmkU

The bike was really expensive to build.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Merlin » Jun 08, 2017 6:13 am

John, if nothing changed and you are still most time offroad then your 90v is way out of range of efficiency with your hub.
you will heat it up too fast. even with Hubsinks.
if you go with a really slow wind motor ok. but if you go with the most selled 4T its better to lower your volts.
the benefit of slow speed windings are, full throttle jumping instantly to max speed. amps go down, efficiency up and whole system stays probably 2 times cooler.

the other side is the acceleration sucks beginning at the end of midspeed. but this is the way it works with hubs.
also if you riding more slowly offroad and want bigbang power, lipo graphene 60c should easy handle 200amps in 1P config.

thats one of the ways you can go. just 4 bricks of 4S 60C for absolutley lightweight battery (short range) but superb handling.
maybe buying two for a fast change of the battery if money doesnt matter....

hard decisions to make. the sweet spot should be for you a 2kwh samsung 30R or GA battery. no problem for short peaks even with GA, enough for range, and 2kwh is acceptable range.

it depends also from your controller....if you go adaptto you are limited to 140amps but have a nice charge thru controller feature what makes it really comfortable.
if so, 60c graphene are fully charged in 20minutes :P

if you go with bms and cycle analyst energus BMS with can adapter for a flatpack is also really nice. but only 16S available.

talk to sketch...i think he know your top preferences more then us. (as i remember you allready took a ride with him)

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 08, 2017 2:05 pm

I personally really like the 18650 cells and don't use lipo packs anymore. The 18650 cells are so much more robust and will not be easily punctured or damaged as lipo packs. When I used lipo packs I had so many cells fail and become puffy. No matter how secure I tried to make the packs they would always move around and get damaged. It was nothing but constant problems.

To be honest, getting away from Lipo packs was one of the best things I did. My new battery has not given me any trouble, while I was constantly messing with my lipo packs and cells.

Also like others have said big weight reduction, I went from 2.3KW to 3.0KW and reduced weight by using 18650 cells. But you have to take into account your amp draw and range when deciding on the 18650 cell type, don't expect huge amp draw on 3500 cells unless you build a large pack. 3KW is a lot of battery power, I usually never get close to using it all, but it does come in handy when I want to take really long trips. If you have the capacity you will find yourself doing more than if you don't have it. There are also many benefits for a bigger pack as you will stress it less, it will last longer. The weight issue of a larger pack is usually negligible unless of course, you are doing some extreme racing, but having a few extra pounds secured tightly in the center of the frame is not going to change all that much.

If you guys didn't know it looks like the new 2017 Q76R has an even larger battery compartment opening. I was just able to fit 280 cell pack into mine. The new 2017 frame opening dimensions looks like it would allow me to easily fit my 280 cell pack and probably an even larger one, like a 300 cell pack.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by John Bozi » Jun 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Ichivein, I appreciate the info on 18650 cells, after posting my last reply I did indeed research and was surprised to see that they are now indeed lighter for watt hours - that's great.

Over my last few years of riding I stopped looking at anything but hk lipo because I find them cheap and easy to combine various configurations. I have started watching lots of vids on building the cylindrical cells and still have the same feeling. When one cell goes the whole battery needs opening.... anyways more thinking on my half is important.

My initial question might have been better articulated. Which lipo bricks dimensions are most suitable to fitting the most into this particular frame.

Merlin, hi.

Without a doubt I have been chatting with Sketch. Difference here is he has the 160 frame and packs I think about 30ah of multistars 2p. I think I'd probably only get 1p of those 16ah ones and that would be bad C rating.

I hope you guys realise I was riding hub motors longer up the mountains than my mid drive and know full well that most hubs overheat. I am currently in discussion with QS to get a 8t 205. Still bigger and heavier than I would like but I trust them and the turn counts and mass is priceless. I stopped riding hub motors off road after breaking the axle on my clyte.

I am attracted to adaptto for its bms, not impressed with the 90v limit nor making my 2 CAs I own redundant.... nor the price. nor the 4s combo it seems to require... cool in other ways...

Offroader, just saw your post now, and I think I saw your pic of pouch cell spaghetti recently.... yeah its a mess and it requires proper securing. I found that once that is done I have never had problems. I have had cyclindrical packs suffer the same with spot welded tabs not being as flexible as silicone wires of pouch cells... but that was a cheap Chinese deal...

Where do you guys source your cells (yes I see them on QULBIX) ? I always buy from Australia for batteries for shipping reasons and warranty ease. I am against buying massive packs from overseas in case there is a fail and dealing with returns would be a nightmare.

Maybe I could make 5 x 4s packs out of them myself? so they function as similar blocks of the lipo I am used to, making it easy to put in on a balance charger occasionally or hook up to adaptto... sorry about my sudden brainstorm to myself...

cheers guys - thanks for bouncing ideas around with me!

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 08, 2017 2:56 pm

If you want to use packs then I would say you have to decide on what battery size you want then go to hobby king website and look at the dimensions of the packs you want to use. Try and then determine how many will fit based on Qulbix frame opening demensions. This will only give you a rough estimate.

How much capacity and amp draw do you want to get out of the pack?

The 76R is really thin and it will be interesting how you will get all the wires and packs run inside, but I guess it could be done. You will probably be limited to around 1.5KW pack size in the Q76R when using lipo packs.

The issue with 18650 cells is that you have to build the pack and source the cells. But it is by far worth the extra effort.

Since the 18650 cells are so much more robust they rarely fail. You really need to hot glue the cells together because the nickel tabs will rip. In my 280 cell pack I have not yet put the cells in parallel and only have them in series, I never used any BMS or balanced any cells, and all 280 cells are still in perfect balance after 1 riding season.

If a cell was to fail you can remove it out of the center by just heating the hotglue and banging it out, no big deal. Allex has a post about him doing that to one of his packs.

The hot glue is so strong that to remove a cell you would actually rip the insulation off the cell before the hot glue failed. Unless you use a little bit of alcohol first or heat the cell.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by John Bozi » Jun 08, 2017 3:35 pm

I'd say around 8kw bursts is an absolute must. Capacity is second to me. Fun and capabilities for shorter periods can be recharged but the other way doesn't work.

so as mentioned if I go the adaptto under 80-90v thats about 100amps

What ah of those 18650s would I need to carry at about 20s? or have you guys got a good reference page to this info for me to read up (dont want to bug this thread too much for things I can learn myself)

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 08, 2017 7:16 pm

With a smallish pack, you are going to need like 20 amp rated 18650 cells. What cells is something that will need to be researched or find threads already made. I personally haven't looked at cells since I built my pack over a year ago.

I found building my pack fun and learned a lot, but if I didn't find it fun it may be a bit tedious. It requires a decent amount of research. You will need to buy a spot welder, nickel tab, plan out the cell layout to equalize cell voltages.

For me I used the Sanyo 3500 MAH cells, these are only rated at 10 amps max. I push them at 7 amps max (about 7.5KW max for the pack) and they do slowly heat up to about 50C towards the end of my ride. These cells are really only good for high power in large packs, don't expect to use them in a small 1.5 KW pack and also push 8000 KW.

I honestly built one awesome pack for my Q76R and had to figure out how to evenly distribute the current path in a pack that was not square, my pack is rounded to fit inside the Q76R. I actually used 16 gauge wire to put my cells in series, because it would require lots of nickel tabs to get the same current as a copper wire and the wire also allowed for equal current resistance through the pack. My pack has close to perfect current resistance through it and that may be one of the reasons all the cells stay perfectly balanced.

This pack took a ridiculous amount of time to build. But I wanted a 3KW pack in the thinnest bike frame you could buy and it was well worth it.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by icherouveim » Jun 09, 2017 1:01 am

John Bozi wrote:Ichivein, I appreciate the info on 18650 cells, after posting my last reply I did indeed research and was surprised to see that they are now indeed lighter for watt hours - that's great.

Over my last few years of riding I stopped looking at anything but hk lipo because I find them cheap and easy to combine various configurations. I have started watching lots of vids on building the cylindrical cells and still have the same feeling. When one cell goes the whole battery needs opening.... anyways more thinking on my half is important.

My initial question might have been better articulated. Which lipo bricks dimensions are most suitable to fitting the most into this particular frame.
Good morning,

I cannot help you with lipo bricks because I've never had.

My suggestion is if you are planning to go for a 6T motor then you should go for a battery pack 10P - 22S made by samsung 30Q cells.
You will have about 2.4 kWh energy and the pack will be capable of 150A continuous and Yes the capacity is important otherwise the fun ends quickly.

Alex has tested Adaptto controllers with 22S configuration at his new flux Beta builds and they work really well.
The weight of the pack will be approximately 10 kilos.

I've bought my cells from nkon.nl they have really good prices, you can send them an email to give you a quotation for 220 cells.

If you want a lighter Pack you can go for the Sony Konion US18650VTC5A 2600mAh - 35A cells, they are great you just sacrifice some capacity.

Ioannis

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by John Bozi » Jun 09, 2017 1:44 am

Your info guys has been greatly appreciated and fantastic. I will follow up with all these leads in time and many decisions cheers.... We've also got a custom builder down under who did Sketch's moto build bats.... so many things to research.

Dam that photo shows as you said a lot of work. Looks like it should be on a pedestal in a modern art gallery.

Do you guys know the exact length of the lip on the opening to inside? It looks like about an inch on all the sides except the bb area. How much do the fasteners intrude inwards.

These lipo pack bit over half the energy than you guys mention possible.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by BCTECH » Jun 09, 2017 9:27 am

one thing I learned is that using lipo packs you need some extra decent space to put all the spaghetti wires and connectors. a Lot more space needed that I never thought about

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Merlin » Jun 09, 2017 9:54 am

depends on how much bricks you must/want to insert.

my first big battery was 24 bricks of turnigys (5s)
that was for sure a wire mess at its finest.

with 15 of those 4s16Ah bricks i didnt need anymore space that i could fill with batterys.
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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by BCTECH » Jun 09, 2017 10:28 am

also depends on which size lipo HK has on sale at that time :)

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 09, 2017 11:44 am

What you can also do to make packs fit better is to cut the wires and connectors off the battery, and use smaller gauge wire and also make the wires longer so that you can connect them some place easier in the bike, like up at the top.

You don't need that thick 10 gauge wire they give you and those huge 4mm bullet connectors. Such a waste as you will never draw that many amps.

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2k watt hours under $900au little spaghetti

Post by John Bozi » Jun 09, 2017 2:00 pm

Merlin wrote:depends on how much bricks you must/want to insert.

my first big battery was 24 bricks of turnigys (5s)
that was for sure a wire mess at its finest.

with 15 of those 4s16Ah bricks i didnt need anymore space that i could fill with batterys.
that can't be the 76 frame. 20s 48AH? you must have had range anxiety lol well done sir!

If some could tell me the exact lip heights on the frame, fastener protrusions and Merlin did you find those 16ah 4s were ever wider than 74mm?

Minimum Capacity: 16000mAh
Configuration: 4S2P / 14.8V / 4Cell
Constant Discharge: 10C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 20C
Pack Weight: 1290g
Pack Size: 173 x 74 x 45mm

that might be cutting it way tight! turned sideways....

EDIT: forget all the questions, I think I found my own solution...

100v 20ah bulk charge to about 96v for short rides which are my great majority, and for the weekly big outing open up and balance charge 4!!!!!!!!!!! batteries lol bms adaptto will have to wait I think until cook my beefed up 18fet lyen..... I reckon this battery even in 1p should deliver a comfortable 4kw for a great deal of riding which is in sync the motor and controller with a few burst of 7kw here and there.
Image
I could easily make some sort of tough casing for each brick because I dont like the looks of those towering leaves.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 12, 2017 7:49 am

This is for the older Q76R but may help you see the fasteners you will be hitting. The cage nuts sit inside and take up space bigger than the square cut hole, so you really can't go below the frame opening at the bottom.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Compoundbike » Jun 12, 2017 3:18 pm

im also building a one with QS205 and only 140 cells... But what kind of Headset did you guys use for steering ?
Is it 1 1/8" ZS44/28.6 I ZS44/30 size ?

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 12, 2017 6:00 pm

This is the one I used. I believe your specs are correct.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Cane-Creek-40- ... rt-Headset

If you are using a dual crown fork you really want the shortest headset possible.

I also wouldn't cut the steerer tube, you really want to make sure the handlebars are high on the bike for a comfortable riding position so leave yourself the adjustment, no need to bend forward as you don't need to pedal.

Here is my Q76R now with a rear dash cam so I'm recording every time I'm riding by just hitting a button to turn it on 5 volts to it. It is an SJ4000 action cam but they have a dash cam option. Also has a new MX3000 Turbo motor with custom fan air cooling.

Just placed an order with Qulbix for some stuff like the Motorcycle footpegs, mud guards, new seat after I ripped mine and I'm tired of the duct tape.

Bike has been flawless, I built my Q76R so that it would be as maintenance free as possible. I was tired of constantly fixing stuff, especially electronics and battery. The frame is so thin that it really makes it perfect for 18650 cell build and keeps the battery perfectly stable with a little closed cell foam.

What sucked is today I landed on my rear zee derailleur and cracked it, will have to buy a new one.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Compoundbike » Jun 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Here is my Q76R now with a rear dash cam so I'm recording every time I'm riding by just hitting a button to turn it on 5 volts to it. It is an SJ4000 action cam but they have a dash cam option. Also has a new MX3000 Turbo motor with custom fan air cooling.
Very Cool.. Reminds me that Electric bikes have so many more options. 8)

I ordered a Headset from Aliexpress... Not the best choice but will do the Job.

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head

Post by John Bozi » Jun 15, 2017 5:16 am

I was planning to transfer my forks to this 76 frame....

Little did I know my frame part is 13cm and the 76 frame 15cm....

That means the forks are useless to this project right?

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 15, 2017 7:03 am

I believe you may have difficulty fitting it, you would need an uncut steerer tube.

I had Qulbix cut the top of my headtube by 10mm to bring it to 140mm to help with fork fitment. But you may run into a problem when turning of the fork and the upper crown hitting the top of the frame. Your upper crown slants down and could hit the top of the frame, or it may not. My Marzocchi 888 upper crown slants down, similar to yours, and I just clear the top of the frame when I turn the wheel fully , but I had to use a headset spacer under the upper crown of what looks about 3-5 mm to clear the top of the frame, so this only helps so much. So you could really only cut the headtube down to 145mm anyway.

I still kind of recommend it being cut down to 140mm just because it may give you some better fitment options cut smaller and you could always use a headset spacer if needed under the upper crown, but it really isn't all that important as most people seem not to have issues at 150mm and I may be the only one and it may be my 888 Marzocchi fork.

So I really don't know and I believe most other ebike frames probably have around a 150mm headtube also.


Best would be to have a straight upper crown like on this fox fork.

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Re: head

Post by macribs » Jun 15, 2017 9:18 am

John Bozi wrote:I was planning to transfer my forks to this 76 frame....

Little did I know my frame part is 13cm and the 76 frame 15cm....

That means the forks are useless to this project right?

Steerer tubes are press fitted onto the triple clams. That means you can use press to undo your current steerer tube from the rest of the fork. Then take that old piece of steerer tube to a machinist and have them make you a new one in the length you need. If steerer tube is straight and not tapered most likely you will find standard tubing that will work and you don't even need to have machinist make a custom one. Just chop tube to length and press fit into lower triple clamp. Fit fork to frame and cut to length. Cheap and easy. And you don't need to buy a brand new fork.

If the fork was assembled with nitro/cryogenic press the steerer tube was "shrunk" before press fitting, that can make it difficult to get it apart. You can try reversing. If that won't work you might wanna look into getting either original lower clamp with uncut steerer tube or find third party lower clamps with tube. I've seen after market clamp with steerer tube from about 100$ and upwards. Original most likely twice that. And not all manufacturer will even sell you such parts.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by smurphy » Jun 16, 2017 12:24 pm

IMG_20170519_083305 (Medium).jpg
IMG_20170520_172126 (Medium).jpg
For the new 2017 Q76R frame i think the maximum safe amount of cells is 280. I alu. welded a frame that fits like a glove into the frame, and keeps my cells safely away from the sharp nuts to fix the sidepanels.
Qulbix Q76R QS205 Sabvoton 72150, Qulbix Q76R, QS205 Max-E. Bafang BBSHD. 14S6P GA pack. Zero DSR 2016.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by John Bozi » Jun 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Thanks Macribs - I will have to pull off the fork and find out.... if I cant its going on sale....

sweet smurphy, that pic helps me because I can see the lip must be about least 2cm on most sides.

begging someone to measure the fastner protruding inside the frame still and diametre too. a pic in addition would really make my week.

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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Compoundbike » Jun 20, 2017 2:56 pm

@smurphy which Setup will you use? At which expected Range and Speed?
I feel a bit underpowered with 160 cells.


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Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by John Bozi » Jun 27, 2017 5:04 pm

What did your 3kw ah battery end up costing if I may ask?

I am currently thinking blow out costs will force me to stay with 2.4kwah at $880au 13kg delivered to my door which should give 5kw continuous power.

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100v 8t QS has been ordered.

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