Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 15 2018 8:57pm

Thank you very much for the detailed information.
I know that at least it is the third time you explain it, but now it has become clear to me that it is not easy to fit 280 cells into this frame.
I have the Max-E.
8C-9C It would be just in case.
With the firmware locked (for now) I do not think it reaches 4.5C of discharge in phase amps, but better to go Increase expectations so that the cell wear is minimal in the long run and lasts a little longer.
I hope it lasts for at least 5 years, treating the battery well, charging max. of cell at 4.10v (at 0.5C or less) and discharge max. of cell at 3.6-3.5v (2A approx. Up to 4.5C approx at maximum peaks) .
With the first autodetection 2 years ago I got my best mark, i obtained 13,4kw. I do not know what configuration I had, I do not remember well.
I touched and touched the configuration.
Finally the Boost mode I was work at 60-62km / h (I don't know the kw, I forgot) but I settled for that.
After manually calibrating the motor, now reached 8,6kw (Probably they can raise more the kw, I only tried to accelerate in slight slopes, I would have to try to accelerate in very inclined zones to see if the demand of energy goes up.) at 71km / h on land in Boost mode, perfect speed to feel the adrenaline on dirt roads, but with great care, more than for me, for others (People who may appear suddenly, we have to be respectful, if we want to be respected).

Have i found this hot glue gun, I was looking for one that will make it easier to put the glue inside, If the tip will enter more than half, it would be a triumph and it would save me a lot of work, but I have doubts that he is going to enter between the cells.
IMG_20180616_020801.jpg
IMG_20180616_020801.jpg (54.53 KiB) Viewed 1061 times
Maybe you can fit a reduction of small metal with a thinner tube, who knows.
The correct would be to place a tube that enters and do not damage cells, and that be a good conductor of temperature for the glue to pass and not get stuck when cooling.
I will look at options.

Yesterday I did not mention this.
I bought the Q76r with a friend who also bought another equal ( Frame,Motor Qsv2, Adaptto max-e) minus the top sticker in green, the suspensions or shock absorbers, and various components (saddle, seat post, brake, pedals, handlebars).
I asked him if he could show his construction, he said yes.
IMG-20180520-WA0007.jpg
He also wants to update his battery, but he is considering going to 13p to avoid touching the frame.

I continue with my own thoughts, I will go with 14p, I'm going to need a stroke of luck to get it inside the frame without damaging the protection of the cell and avoid producing a serious short circuit.
Last edited by Maderensto on Jun 15 2018 11:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6424
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Rix » Jun 15 2018 11:31pm

I continue with my own thoughts, I will go with 14p, I'm going to need a stroke of luck to get it inside the frame without damaging the protection of the cell and avoid producing a serious short circuit.
You are right amico mio, 14P will require some fineness and patience to get in there, Maybe go 13P will free up a little space?

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 15 2018 11:46pm

I think that removing 20 cells(13p) would solve the problem. But I am stubborn, I have to give me the blow to learn.
I think I will try it with 280, and if I see that it is very complicated, then I take 20 cells to have a spare or to do a better battery for the front light, etc.
But my intention is to go to the limit!
Personally I do not like odd numbers, in battery configurations.
Another option would be to sell my frame and buy a new one, but I do not like this option, although it is not bad.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6424
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Rix » Jun 16 2018 9:07am

Maderensto wrote:
Jun 15 2018 11:46pm
I think that removing 20 cells(13p) would solve the problem. But I am stubborn, I have to give me the blow to learn.
I think I will try it with 280, and if I see that it is very complicated, then I take 20 cells to have a spare or to do a better battery for the front light, etc.
But my intention is to go to the limit!
Personally I do not like odd numbers, in battery configurations.
Another option would be to sell my frame and buy a new one, but I do not like this option, although it is not bad.
Alright 8) sounds great, keep us posted.

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 16 2018 10:48am

280 cells is definitely doable, but you just have to glue the pack compressed, not that big of a deal. To be honest, the pack will only come close to the frame with a few cells so you just have to file the frame opening slightly and that will give you so much more room.

I remove my pack maybe once per year so its not something I do often. But I also put thick 3M paint protection film around the frame opening so that if there is any rubbing, it rubs on the plastic film and this would never wear down to the metal.

13p was not an option form me because I parallel 2 cells to another 2 cells, can't do that with even numbers.


With the glue gun, I looked for a small tip but they don't have them that small. Maybe it would be possible to make some kind of funnel and then the pressure would push the glue down further. I just plunged the glue down with a metal rod. By plunging it down with a metal rod this force the glue close and in between the cells where its needed,

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 16 2018 1:43pm

Could you possible use different glue? What about tec 7 sealent or adiseal? If you don't know it look it up online or on youtube. Should do the trick for the battery? And it would be much cleaner and less messy then the hot glue gun. You could easily adjust the tip of the tec 7 or adiseal to fit between the cells so you can glue from one side only and be done in one setting.

If tec 7 or adiseal does tickle you then look for some automotive bonding, you know the stuff they use nowadays instead of welding panels together.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits (Battery)

Post by Maderensto » Jun 16 2018 8:48pm

After thinking for a long time, I have already decided how I want to build the battery.

I have ruled out using nickel (sheet) , I will use 0.3mm strips using exactly the same design as the Offroader, it will save me some weight (little I guess) and using 7x16awg cables are will going to make the extra nickel of the sheet be unnecessary .
In the end I've gone crazy thinking about the parallel joining of the cells to the Bms, and I've come to the conclusion that this would be the right way to do it.

:!: (Reissue : The design that I have sent in messages below, use 160 pieces of cable less. So you better not use this design.
The correct design this in one of the of following messages, not in this it) :!:
IMG_20180617_030609.jpg
IMG_20180617_030609.jpg (67.74 KiB) Viewed 961 times
The good thing about doing so, and the reason for my final decision, is that if in the future I have to identify a cell that decompensates, I just need to heat the 22awg cables with the soldering iron and separate the 14p in 2p for detection and replacement , easier and cheaper.

Macribs, that super silicone is very good, surely the cells will be much more glued (ultra glued I would say), would have to see the viscosity that has, and also how the cleaner works to remove the already dry silicone.
I have yet to see the videos, but I have been looking at different types and brands in my area, to get an idea, although those two brands that you mention are more powerful.

Today I went out for a ride with friends, the one with the green Q76r and another three with normal bikes.
After a good time I activated the boost mode and strong accelerated when I was over 30kmh (80v).
I managed to literally take off at 11.9kw, and I was lucky to release the accelerator in time, since I was with the front wheel quite up and I saw my disintegration.
IMG_20180616_233054(1).jpg
In short, I had a good time.
The more I use it the more I like it!
Last edited by Maderensto on Jun 18 2018 1:13pm, edited 13 times in total.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 16 2018 9:56pm

One thing about using different glues that are not hot glues. If you use hotglue you can always heat an individual bad cell to melt the glue enough to push out the bad cell out of the pack. If you use a strong not hot glue this won't be possible and there may not be an easy way to get a bad cell out of the pack.
I guess you could always push the cell out of the insulation, but not sure how easy it will be to get a cell back in. Just something to consider.
The other benefit of using hot glue is that if you want to break apart the entire pack you just use alcohol. Alcohol breaks the bond of hotglue quite easily and the cells just fall apart, it is quite amazing how alcohol does this.

I actually built my whole q76R pack without compressing it in the frame, and when I tried to get it into the frame it was so big there was no way I was going to file my frame opening that much. I then used isopropyl alcohol and removed each individual cell from the pack and peeled off the hot glue quite easily. I then rebuilt the whole pack again compressed together.

The other thing is different hot glues have different bond strength. I first used the cheap hot glue from harbor freight and while that held the cells, it was nothing like this hot glue that I bought from amazon. This amazon hot glue was so much strong that if I tried to rip cells apart, it would wrip the shrink wrap off the cell before breaking the hot glue bond. The cheap hot glue would break first before the heat shrink on the cell.

This is the hot glue I bought from amazon that was really strong stuff.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LV ... UTF8&psc=1

maderensto, thats is good advice about using the 22 awg wire because of easily desoldering the wire to find bad cells. I'm not sure exactly how I am going to parallel mine, I planned on cutting real thin strips of .15 nickel. I would cut the strips down to maybe 3mm in width, so they would be 3mm width .15 nickel.

Do you think 22 awg is a bit much to parallel the cells? I would think 24 awg as the thickest, and probably should use 26 awg. You really won't be drawing any current through those wires and might as well have them small to act as a fuse in case of a short.

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 16 2018 10:40pm

11.9KW is a lot. I never tried to max mine out. My peak KW is 7.8 based on my Max-E display. For me 7.8 KW is a lot of power, maybe that is because I am very skinny and weigh only 120 lbs, and am average height. I should try and turn up my amps one day just to see what it is like.

The other big reason I never pushed mine higher than 7.8 KW, even though I could get a around a theoretical 11KW at full charge with my Sanyo 3500MAH cells, is because I know I would kill myself with that kind of power. I'm already hitting a top speed of 57MPH / 92 KPH at 7.8 KW. This is also with a max voltage of 82 volts.

If I allowed myself 11KW, I would imagine I would be hitting 70+ MPH / 112 KPH?? This would be insane on my light weight bike.

I just did an almost full battery ride on my bike, 82 volts to 67 volts, or 4.1 to 3.35 volts and here is what my rides look like.

Image

Image

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 16 2018 10:56pm

The truth is that alcohol is magical when it comes to taking things off the hot glue, it's a wonder!
Before thinking about the cables, I thought of small nickel strips as you say, but in the end it occurred to me to take advantage of the fact that while you are welding the cables 16 awg to the nickel, also solders the balance wires both.
The bad thing is your case, that you already have it soldered by points.
The only alternative that I see to your case for not to use the nickel this is.
At cable 16 awg, remove 0.1 cm approximately at the middle of insulation from each cable, to weld there 26 awg wire.
It's a prudent distance to weld there (the 26 awg wire is soldered very fast and easy).
IMG_20180617_080140.jpg

If I choose 22 awg, it is because it is the size of the my lipo balance wire that I use and I have a few meters prepared for this.
Well, it seems good to modify the size of the cables.
It would be better to use 22 awg for the long section that will go to the jst xh connector, since the pins it has adapt perfectly to that wire size, they are firm after the crimp.
After I would use 24 awg for the "Y" and 26 awg for the wires that are divided into the cells.
Haber that you think.
I weigh 143lb, and you are right 8kw is a lot of power, with 12kw sometimes you have scares, apart from that I have the PWR timing at +1.93 and the accelerator is ultra sensitive. A real danger. I like the push that has, it amazing!

And by the way, mega pack! How many sticks of the 110 did you use? Counting on the 2 times you did it.
It's out of curiosity. :D
And another question, 92 km / h? You'll be on flat asphalt and with Ovs + 3, right?

After making the second design for you, I realized that it is better than the first one I made, so I will save a lot of work (double).
Last edited by Maderensto on Jun 17 2018 1:55am, edited 15 times in total.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 16 2018 11:56pm

@offroader what intrigues me the most about more power is not the added top speed. It is the added torque. The added torque is the heart of the fun factor. It makes bike accelerate much faster, it pushes you out of bends and pulls you up steep hills. It makes for a much faster stand still acceleration, as well as a much meatier mid range punch. Accelerating from say 20-30-40 and up to top speed is also much much faster. That crazy e-grin will only get bigger with more power. You should really let your controller push more power, plenty of max-e users that push 12-13 kw and have done so for several years without any problems.

Most of the time we don't push for max power when riding. But it is so satisfying to know you got plenty more power on tap should you feel the need for more. Just a crack of the throttle away.

Btw, I think adaptto might have a clever software way of limiting the top speed, look into that. You could set top speed to your own desire and never be tempted to push further yet still get the thrill of way better accelerations.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 17 2018 12:05am

macribs wrote:
Jun 16 2018 11:56pm
That crazy e-grin will only get bigger with more power.

You've nailed it!
That is pure and hard happiness
This is how I feel.
What you are saying is true, I think the same.
14 kw is already more than enough for me, and to drag 2 bikes hooked one to each shoulder and still accelerating with force, I think I could drag 4 friends if they could grab a safe way to me, without collisions.

If there was a comparison, it would be like surfing with a missile through the sand.
Or maybe go grabb a magic flying carpet with nitro through the dunes. :lol:
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Offroader » Jun 17 2018 8:46pm

Maderensto, I would say that I didn't really use that much glue at all. Maybe around 10 sticks total. Lots of glue will just drip out of the hot glue gun when you are not using it. Probably best to spend some extra money and get a good hot glue gun. My cheap one didn't work well at all and I bought a better one, but probably should have spent even more money and bought the best.

When I hit 92 KMH yes that was on the street and I probably have at least OVS set to 3, maybe more. I look at my wattage when I'm at those high speeds and its at my peak wattage, so I'm at around 7KW

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 18 2018 2:08am

Well be that as it may but you can for sure pull a higher load on acceleration then 7 kw. Changing the settings in the controller will let you accelerate with more force pushing more amps into the motor giving you faster acceleration. You could easily see twice that 7 kw on hard acceleration or even in climbs not that you would push motor too much in a climb to avoid meltdown. 92 km/h is plenty fast top speed, and you don't need more then that if you so desire. But I promise you will not be sorry for cranking up the acceleration as acceleration is the very thing that sets e-bikes apart ICE bikes. Acceleration on any e-bike should be as brutal and addictive as possible on any e-bike. Its just more fun that way.

Don't take my word for it, ask people ie in the adappto thread. Look at your setting and compare them to what others have. If you only pull 7 kw peak power you ain't got best possible acceleration.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 18 2018 10:48am

It already seemed to me that 110 glue sticks were many.
Anyway, that offer is incredible, and if the glue does not spoil over the years, it should last for your children / grandchildren to inherit. I usually do not usually use even one whole bar a year (each one of you will spend more or less quantity, it's just my case).

Do you think a hot glue gun, 40 $ approximately like the one I showed, could it be fine?
The cheap ones she cost less than 8 $, I have one and it leaves to be desired, when it to warm up, it does not stop melting glue without stopping.
The cheap almost always goes expensive in the long run.

Be careful when looking at the screen at high speeds, it could cause an accident.
At 15 km / h I find it hard to see the small numbers, because the dirt roads prevent me from doing so with their irregularities.
In asphalt it will be easier to see the data, but do not trust, because if you can not take exactly the same time as when you look at a mirror when driving a car, better to use a camera to record the screen, and avoid misfortunes.
The only 2 data I can see without distracting me down on the screen are temperature bar of the motor and km/h.

I also want to clarify that 8kw would be more than enough for this e-bike (49kg + 65kg driver), with good acceleration as well.

But I also say that at more than 13kw it is very dangerous, and I do not say it in jest, it could cause
atastrophe, death by accident.
Leaving the warnings, to more than 13kw the sensation when accelerating is incredible, it is difficult to keep the wheel of alante in the ground of the power that it has. And it is noticeable that at high speeds when the front wheel gets up is very stable and soft, but I still have the respect to risk breaking it by making the reckless, although I would like to learn.

By the way.
What did you think of the design?
Could you improve on something?
Last edited by Maderensto on Jun 18 2018 11:22am, edited 4 times in total.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 18 2018 11:01am

Offroader wrote:
Jun 16 2018 9:56pm
One thing about using different glues that are not hot glues. If you use hotglue you can always heat an individual bad cell to melt the glue enough to push out the bad cell out of the pack. If you use a strong not hot glue this won't be possible and there may not be an easy way to get a bad cell out of the pack.
I guess you could always push the cell out of the insulation, but not sure how easy it will be to get a cell back in. Just something to consider.
The other benefit of using hot glue is that if you want to break apart the entire pack you just use alcohol. Alcohol breaks the bond of hotglue quite easily and the cells just fall apart, it is quite amazing how alcohol does this.
Me personally would not build a pack with insulation on each cell, because if you glue it like that the strength of the pack comes down to the strength of the individual battery cell wrapping. And that wrapping tears easily.

If you look into using stronger bonding chemicals I would make a tiny cluster of say 3-4 cells and glue them together as a test with the glue you consider using. Then try to break the bonding with ie a thin fishing line or something that will not destroy the steel casing of the each cell. If you find way to remove one cell problem is solved and you got yourself a battery pack that will never deform or break apart.

If you can't find a way to remove a single cell from the cluster you might wanna test each individual cell and build a battery pack consisting of only the best matched cells you can find. Close as possible voltage. Charge up to say 80% and let sit idle for a few weeks and retest to see and match up the very best cells. If you build a pack of the very best cells you can find and do a proper job building and designing the pack you will be less likely to have any problems down the road. Also if you constrain yourself regarding discharge and never drop below recommended voltage and stop charging at say 85-90% your battery will live a long and happy life. If you once in a while balances the cell even better.

A well build and designed pack where matched cells are used should have such a long life that you should not need to worry. Also a pack that is well bonded is less likely to have problems with broken spot welds or teared nickel strips.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 18 2018 11:40am

The fishing thread is a good idea to separate few cells, but if you had to remove 2 cells in the middle of the battery would be a problem because you could not put the fishing line straight to force down, because the way the one that the cells are placed on is pyramidal. That's the problem.
The hot glue, the good thing is that you could use alcohol or the hot air gun.
It seems easier.
In theory you should never change any cell if the battery is done well, but it is better to have a battery ready for possible future repairs, than one that the nickel sheet It is completely welded to 28 cells, 14 positive cells + 14 negative + a battery construction Impossible to disarm because of the guilt of a too powerful glue.

I like this battery a lot, but if I ever he had a problem, it would be an extreme headache for him.
It is clear that although he will cut the nickel with scissors, and extract the individual cells, he would have to leave the nickel piece soldered to the cell so as not to tear it by pulling it. And then when he will build it, he will have to weld on top of the nickel trimmed .
Too much mess
IMG_20180618_190608.jpg
IMG_20180618_190608.jpg (202.12 KiB) Viewed 785 times
So it would be perfect this design in case a problem arises.
IMG_20180617_080140.jpg
It is clear that this design is less robust than the one above, but it is much better for repairs and balanced energy transfer.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 19 2018 8:25am

I like this design. But I would remove the plastic wrapper from each cell before gluing.

Image


If you spend some time thinking of ways to assemble "clusters" within the battery pack you could probably skip gluing some cells so that worst case would be to remove one cluster from the pack, repair or build a new cluster and reglue the cluster to the pack.

I've seen some thin line that was either coated with some sort of carbon or possible it was made from carbon. Thin and flexible enough so that it could go around bends but stiff enough to penetrate many materials that is not dense. I am sure those bonding chemicals that does not harden to a rock when they cure but are still little tiny bit of flex will be possible to penetrate and remove with such a line. Some metal wire will most likely also work. Work it in a little at a time.

You got to prioritize, build the safest pack possible or build a less safe pack that will be easier to service should problems show later down the line. Using quality cells I would use the mathematics and build a strong safe pack. Fail rate is very low on quality batteries.

From battery university
Safety is a further concern, but this applies to all batteries. A one-in-200,000 failure triggered the recall of almost six million lithium-ion batteries in 2006. Sony, the manufacturer of these cells, said that on rare occasions microscopic metal particles may come into contact with other parts of the battery cell, leading to a short circuit than can cause venting with flame.

Li-ion has improved and the failure rate has been reduced to one-in-10 million. This is reassuring, but the formula of one-in-10 million could cause 200 cells to fail in the batch of two billion that Tesla plans to consume. It is likely that the failure rate has gone down further but caution is in place when storing tons of batteries in one place. Fires with battery manufacturers and in warehoused storing batteries are common.


I got twice as good odds for winning the Norwegian Lottery 1st price. Odds are 1:5 mill approx. I haven't won yet after decades of playing :) And with odds twice as tough I would play the number game and build a brick pack that will never tear. On top of that you can stack the deck. Testing cells and matching the best cells will reduce likelihood of failure even more. Also make sure to use well known cells from well known manufacturer and sold by reputable vendors. Also be sure to choose the best cell for your use. If you need high discharge rate (C rating) use such cells, and don't skimp because you can find better deals on lower rated cells.

You know the old saying, measure twice cut once? I think that goes for batteries as well. Do proper job of shopping the best cells for you usage and do test the cells before you start building. Odds are that you will building once and never need to open up that battery pack ever again. And the stronger the pack is, the less chance there is of failure due to mechanical stress on the pack that could lead to a short or what not.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 19 2018 9:21am

The idea of removing the isolation of the cell, would solve the problem of space, since it would gain a few extra millimeters. Then It would be isolate the parallel groups so they do not touch each other.
The negative sides of all 14 cells would come into contact, if I'm not mistaken.

I will have to make tests with several adhesives, but if I do not see it easy, I will choose the hot glue, if it is of good quality, should last for many years.
In such a case that spoil the hot glue with the years, it can always be replaced by new, it would be as easy as heating a metal bar a bit with the round tip and pushing the glue down, then using alcohol with dropper, and extract the remains that come off alone.
Also think that the battery will fit like a glove in one hand. Little is going to move, even if the glue fails, since there will be no space, it will be all busy and tight by the side covers.

The cells are difficult that to have failures as the studios say, but better be able to repairon a battery that has to last many years, than not being able to do it.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 19 2018 10:39am

Hehe yeah I am not trying to push you promoting to buil a battery pack that can never be repaired. I just think the biggest focus might not need to be "easiest possible repair". As the latter might prevent best possible build and in turn increase the chance of failure due to mechanical stress. The only place I advocate easiest repair is for tires, I just love tubeless tires for easy roadside repairs. Less then 2 minutes after a flat you are moving on again with freshly long lasting repaired tire. Try that with an inner tube.

You could possible reach a state of acceptable repair challenge just by deciding how to glue previous glued clusters together. IF them clusters are glued in a way that will allow to dissemble them your worst case would be loss of 1 cluster. Possible not even that if you can manage to work out a clever way to glue cells together.

From the top of my head without any testing I can easily imagine leaving say 5 mm top and bottom without any glue. Or depending on what bonding agent you end up using maybe a 5mm strip of glue as all that is called for. You could possible even drill out the bonding, using a drill stand and a steady hand if need be later.

Yeah removing the wrapping will shrink the overall size and you might not even need to do any filing of the frame opening. That could be the way to go, not matter what glue you end up using.

For all I know there might even be high quality hot glue available. The ones I have used several times for various diy projects has been "any hot glue" bought at your typical super saver store. Those had bad bonding and was messy to use. So I kind of dismissed hot glue after that, without even checking if there is better quality hot glue out there. Lazy on my part.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 19 2018 11:56am

I do not think you're forcing me, you are simply recommending me, and I thank you very much. For that I am here, to learn, and also for all those who have these doubts, they can solve them in the future. :roll:

I came up with an idea that could be the solution to all our problems, or so I think.
It's a lot of work but it would be worth trying.

You will have to stick the cells with hot glue and leave 2 holes for each hole between cells without filling , about 5 mm, and then fill them with that super silicone type Tec7 or similar.
(They sell a product to break the bonds of the already dried silicone, as is the alcohol for the hot glue).
So there will be a union between incredible cells, and in such a case of repair or replacement, only will have they remove the silicone plugs with the product and with a tweezers, and then the hot glue with alcohol and a thin metal rod (of metal for to be able to heat the rod) with the round tip.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
macribs   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3481
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by macribs » Jun 20 2018 9:46am

Offroader wrote:
Jun 16 2018 10:40pm
11.9KW is a lot. I never tried to max mine out. My peak KW is 7.8 based on my Max-E display. For me 7.8 KW is a lot of power, maybe that is because I am very skinny and weigh only 120 lbs, and am average height. I should try and turn up my amps one day just to see what it is like.
Think of your controller settings as to how your garden hose will work if you get a kink on the hose. As long as the kink is there you can turn on the water from the wall outlet/faucet, open the nozzle but only a small amount of water will come out of the nozzle. Now straighten the hose and remove the kink and water will poor out as much as you allow with the nozzle.

Your e-bike is the same way. Even if your controller will allow for 11 kw. Or 14 kw for that matter, you don't need to use that power. Your right hand is in control. But anytime you like to open the nozzle wide open you will have way more fun @11 kw then you ever will @7kw. Even if you slow down when passing 45 mph. Or 55 mp. Or 65 mph. You decide.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 20 2018 12:40pm

I have to comment that I now have a nervous accelerating, therefore, the touch that you have to have with the accelerator has to be very precise if you do not want to take your teeth.
I think that the PWR timing between +0.16 and +0.30 helps acceleration have less nerve, especially when starting to accelerate, more safety.
On the other hand, if you set the PWR time to more than +1.4 to +2.00, you see a considerable change in the acceleration of the averages (more than 50km / h). Also on steep slopes much more power of acceleration is appreciated, it is incredible.

This is my advance configuration.
IMG_20180620_190029.jpg
IMG_20180620_190029.jpg (84.7 KiB) Viewed 708 times
I would try different PWR timing values, in doing so, you must after tune the correction angle (with the well hold bike and secured and the wheels raised) Set the echo mode to 0.20A of the battery amplifier, and 0.00A of the amplifier phase, more than anything, to be able to maintain about 15-20km / h). Increase or decrease the values ​​little by little until you find a value that you notice that the motor works as smooth as possible without vibrations.
Once that is done, configure the Boost mode to easily maintain a cruise speed with the accelerator (in my case it is about 54km / h) and maintain that speed while configuring the Ind timing values ​​(in the same way as the angle of correction) to get it to work smoothly and vibrations.
It is important not to go up much this value (Ind timing) , since it will lower the efficiency of the engine at high rpm, apart from heating it more easily.
REMEMBER:
( The wheel going very fast is not better, be careful with this point).
Once I was set it up so that the wheel reached 123km / h in empty, with 76v, boost mode and Ovs to 000, but you have to be realistic and do things right, the engine it quickly rises in temperature and this is not good.
With my current values (with the PWR timing to 1.93, to 76v, boost mode and Ovs000) 81km/h In less than a second. Using it on dirt roads and sand, reaches 71km / h without any difficulty.

By the way, I've been driving about 2500km and I've only punctured 2 times on the front wheel, but since I use cameras with repairing fluid, it is more difficult that I pricked the wheel or have that replace the camera.
La 70 / 100-19 "destroys / disintegrates vegetable spikes that are usually on the sides of dirt roads.
So in that aspect I am doing well, I have no problems.
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6424
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2018 2:48pm

I found that setting my Ind Timing at 654 and PWR timing at 1.58 on my old MXUS V2 4T yielded excellent results with OVS set at 3. Pulled like a freight train and was good for 50MPH on 18s with DC amps set at 90 and phase set at 270. I could ride WOT on flat ground for 20 minutes at around 80F outside temps before heating became an issue. Ironically I didn't have a lot of charge left either when riding like this. Increasing the values didn't yield much more power and heated up the motor much more quickly when riding WOT on the flat.

User avatar
Maderensto   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Jun 14 2018 6:27pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

Post by Maderensto » Jun 20 2018 5:51pm

When you adjust a new PWR timing value, you have to look for the correction angle and the Ind timing that suits that value.
In this link Doctorbass explains perfectly how to fine tune the engine, although I suppose you have already read it.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87712

The other day when I went with my friends for a spin, the temperature of my motor was stable (71C °) giving strong accelerations from low speeds and accelerate hard and brake all the time from 80v to 76v in Boost mode and without Ovs.
I have my amplifiers configured in this way and I know that the blocked firmware does not allow this.
IMG_20180621_004139.jpg
IMG_20180621_004139.jpg (75.84 KiB) Viewed 664 times
In the eco mode I usually put 10A in ib a. that even being little power, gives to move.( at 4A there are slopes that I cant climb with all my muscular effort, not even giving pedals of stand)
49kg weighs the beast!
Having to reduce the amps because there is not much battery is the bad thing.
Set range helps to a lot to reach destinations without running out of battery.
It's a wonder!
2014: B.Fold3 MOD+Bafang BPM (Front motor) 48v500w + ku123 + 48v12A Lifepo4 48v.
2016: Qulbix Q76r + Qs205v2 (3000w) + 76v20A (multistar lipos 10A 4s (20s 2p)).

Post Reply