Bomber Style Frame Set (EBB) Black - $500 - 2 left

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by nutnspecial » Dec 08 2015 8:32am

+1 evelbike- thanks for the straitforward analysis and frame comparison. I certainly agree with your points, and like the frame.

If there are no patent issues with marketing a product for sale, people are well within their rights to do so and sell it.
This is part of progress, and diversity will allow for faster product development and the fairest prices.

Duh? Apparently not for some. And I have nothing against bespoke ebikes or vector or the other frames, (other than sellers' bad freaking attitudes lol). All just different flavors and we should be getting along. Showing up on 'forsale' thread to vehemently bash/ condescend is just silly :(

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by eVelbike » Dec 08 2015 10:03am

DasDouble ,
there are many differences between Vector and EEB, friend, I just do not want to discredit Vector more.
You can learn many of them in the begining of this thread or here
Details, components, geometry, dimensions, all is different. Only looks same on a flat picture.
As for your picture with broken motorcycle - how does it relate to EEB, Vector, Stealth, Qulbix or any other frame?
If you want say smth exactly relative to the EEB - please do it, but as I see - you just try to write as more text as possible here without any objective sense.
You have not seen these frames and tested nothing, why do you think you know smth?

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by tomjasz » Dec 08 2015 1:00pm

OK for the dullard here, which frames are the real deal? Modern, updated, latest technology and most reliable builds?

Name names, please.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by eVelbike » Dec 08 2015 1:12pm

good question) only personal tests can give you the answer.
Every seller will tell you that his stuff is the best one :D

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by ABritInNY » Dec 08 2015 2:14pm

+1 Evelbike I'm not exactly sure WHAT Dasdoubles REAL prob is?? But it's very obv it's about waaay more than cloning/copying and intellectual property rights. I currently own and still ride my first ever EBike, a Kayman Flash+ with a 350w rated MXUS rear hub encased in a 26" mag wheel. It was stated that it was a US designed, purpose built Ebike and I liked that. It later transpired that the design, indeed designed in the US, taken from my friend on FB's autocad account! copied and refined (made ACTUALLY feasible) in China. The factory changed many innovative aspects of the original design, e.g ditching center drive for an encased rear hub and designing the dual in frame batteries and controller housing etc BUT it still is OBVIOUSLY based on the same bike's design, SO MUCH SO, that when another company tried to STEAL the unmodified design again and run it as an Indiegogo campaign for a NEW Bike, it was quickly yanked after he proved it, despite IGG being indifferent "money-grubbers." The copiers even lied and claimed to backers that asked, that they paid a fee for the rights! After talking with my friend he explained how hard getting any kind of compensation for the bikes already built in China by diff US companies including Jetson that HAD 2 HAVE KNOWN! but they All have lawyers that told them enough had been changed to call it a new product. Personally In my recent/current build, I wanted to use a new higher current cell, a 30AH prismatic lifepo4 pouch type, 3c-8c rated to make a 24s1p 76v nom pack, the cell width of each is 140mm before the pack is even built, Knowing that and wanting a "Bomber style" build explain how would any 125mm width frame ever suffice for me? I NEED the 140mm frame (and spacers too! after the pack arrived a lil wider than expected.) The Money was never the issue, I have various Turnkey and custom Ebikes of different Voltages and motor specs, from 48v Pedego Cargo styled, Kayman EMtb, A2B folding, Ohm speed pedelec Freway pedelec etc etc and now on this build project, I took advice from EM3EV that said the EEB frame (they offer too) rode and looked great with chunky parts added and in testing so far the frame has not dissapointed at ALL!!
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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Powervelocity.com » Dec 08 2015 2:32pm

Okay. Let's see what's going on here. I've put a couple of extra frames I had for sale here in the Items for Sale section. Some frame builders felt compelled to jump in and relieve themselves all over it and use that as a basis for furthering their own products and agendas. Well, that would look a bit better if there was some substance to this bashing. But nothing other than empty snobbing about own superiority and calling everyone else not agreeing stupid. As a consumer, I don't care a button who cloned whom. If there is a patent infringement, that has to be settled in court. Apple and Samsung, for example, do that all the time but I haven't seen people basing their phone purchase decisions on cloning suspicions.

My firsthand experience using this frame is that it works fine. I suspect Vector frame is in the ballpark quality and functionality wise. There are some purported advantages in this frame such as a bit larger battery compartment and a bit lighter weight, and then plastic covers (advantage or disadvantages - depending on how you look at it). No illusion that either are the same as a 3-5k frame, I would expect more from that kind of price. There is a market for sub $1000 frames, there is a market for over 10K frames, everyone makes their purchase decision based on their budget and feature preferences. As far as I am concerned, this frame has a large battery compartment and a solid made swingarm/dropouts. That's what matters to me as someone with experience converting and riding regular frame bikes. If I wanted an expensive frame made with a space grade materials and jet aerodynamics, I would look elsewhere. I had almost no issues assembling the bike, it's straightforward, no missing parts, no need to manufacture anything extra to make it work. It handles well on the road and feels secure at speeds over 40 mph, much better than anything I've ridden before. My only concern would be long term safety and I would like to see some REAL data/tests/comparisons on that if anyone can provide.
Last edited by Powervelocity.com on Dec 08 2015 4:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Lurkin » Dec 08 2015 2:44pm

vadicus wrote:My only concern IS safety and I would like to see some REAL data/tests/comparisons.
If you are selling something on here, you should be providing your own data or contacting someone capable to do it for you. Its called being responsible for your own product and safety was one of the main reasons I moved away from doing what you are doing. Safety first.

Having experienced a BMX frame failure first hand, it can involve face plants, impaling on broken frame, broken bones... and that was unassisted.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by sonnetg » Dec 08 2015 3:32pm

vadicus wrote: As far as I am concerned, this frame has a large battery compartment and a solid made swingarm/dropouts. That's what matters to me as someone with experience converting and riding regular frame bikes.
You nailed it on it's head with a hammer. If I were to build my next ebike, this is exactly what I would be looking for in a frame. I am glad there are many options out there now. Wish this was the case years ago. when building my next ebike, the price of the bike frame would be least of my worries. I would be more concerned with budgeting for batteries, suspensions, motor, controller, brakes and the list can go on and on..

There is also NYX, Flux or Raptor frames to chose from. All these frames will have their pros and cons.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by John in CR » Dec 08 2015 4:06pm

Wow! I've never seen a for sale thread on ES degenerate like this. All this arguing about nothing when all the bikes of this type whether bought complete or as frame only get a CLONED HUBMOTOR installed, so they all get a cloned version of the most important part and to make matters worse, offroad use is a totally ridiculous use of that cloned part and it makes suspension geometry discussion silly. I view Open Source as the single best concept of the modern era. Big companies use IP to squash the little guy innovators. Sure the innovators should and are generally compensated for their ideas and work, but in no way should the world's 1%ers be allowed to enrich themselves at the world's expense using protected IP. Knowledge and ideas should be shared freely with the world instead.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Powervelocity.com » Dec 08 2015 4:16pm

I am in contact with the manufacturer and have all the data I need so far. I have inspected the quality of the welds and they look good. The stress/crash and long term use stats is something we are missing here. Comparative analysis of the most common frames in terms of material fatigue, tensile strengths, elongation, etc. would be great. I haven't seen other ebike frame manufacturers and/or third parties offering that yet, so I wouldn't expect this manufacturer to have anything like that. The plastic cover test, albeit not too scientific but entertaining, was a good start. There is a general consensus that that steel is stronger than aluminum alloys on most bikes that we use for conversions, so, if we assume that these or other similar frames are made of good grade steel, we'll probably need to focus on the welds and variations in geometries that would necessitate different requirements for weld qualities.

Of course, there are a lot of liability issues as Lurkin implied and that keeps many people out of this business. Even sellers of regular bikes won't sell you a bike until you sign waivers. With ebikes, the risks are higher due to higher speeds and weights. This is where safety data can be useful for managing these risks and avoid FUD.
Lurkin wrote:
vadicus wrote:My only concern IS safety and I would like to see some REAL data/tests/comparisons.
If you are selling something on here, you should be providing your own data or contacting someone capable to do it for you. Its called being responsible for your own product and safety was one of the main reasons I moved away from doing what you are doing. Safety first.

Having experienced a BMX frame failure first hand, it can involve face plants, impaling on broken frame, broken bones... and that was unassisted.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by John in CR » Dec 08 2015 5:43pm

Personally I only want steel, not because it's necessarily stronger, but because of the way it fails. It stretches and cracks and squeaks typically well in advance of failure. Aluminum fails catastrophically in an instant. Overbuilt in the critical areas is what I want, because I know that with high power builds even a couple of kilos doesn't make any meaningful difference once you introduce an electric motor, contrary to the thinking many cyclists carry over from pedal powered bikes. The location of the extra weight OTOH is quite important.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Lurkin » Dec 08 2015 7:23pm

vadicus wrote:I am in contact with the manufacturer and have all the data I need so far.
Which is what exactly? The only information in this thread of any substance was provided by other people.
vadicus wrote:I have inspected the quality of the welds and they look good.
Would you share photos of these welds?
vadicus wrote:The stress/crash and long term use stats is something we are missing here. Comparative analysis of the most common frames in terms of material fatigue, tensile strengths, elongation, etc. would be great. I haven't seen other ebike frame manufacturers and/or third parties offering that yet, so I wouldn't expect this manufacturer to have anything like that.
To be fair, I'm not sure if I've seen this from bike manufacturers...
vadicus wrote:The plastic cover test, albeit not too scientific but entertaining, was a good start. There is a general consensus that that steel is stronger than aluminum alloys on most bikes that we use for conversions, so, if we assume that these or other similar frames are made of good grade steel, we'll probably need to focus on the welds and variations in geometries that would necessitate different requirements for weld qualities.
So what is the steel grade of this frame? The 'grade' I got was meaningless. 'good grade' doesn't mean anything either.
vadicus wrote:Of course, there are a lot of liability issues as Lurkin implied and that keeps many people out of this business. Even sellers of regular bikes won't sell you a bike until you sign waivers. With ebikes, the risks are higher due to higher speeds and weights. This is where safety data can be useful for managing these risks and avoid FUD.
Which you don't seem to have, yet you are still acting as a distributor for this frame... so what is your apparent belief of the safety and/or strength of this frame actually based on? Speculation and asking other people for information is not reassuring.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Sean9002 » Dec 08 2015 9:06pm

Lurkin wrote:
vadicus wrote:I am in contact with the manufacturer and have all the data I need so far.
vadicus wrote:The stress/crash and long term use stats is something we are missing here. Comparative analysis of the most common frames in terms of material fatigue, tensile strengths, elongation, etc. would be great. I haven't seen other ebike frame manufacturers and/or third parties offering that yet, so I wouldn't expect this manufacturer to have anything like that.
To be fair, I'm not sure if I've seen this from bike manufacturers...

With the entire Chinese population a victim of copycat mentality/lack of imagination/no freedom of creativity (what ever it may be), High end manufacturers will minimise risk by being protective of sensitive data.
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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Powervelocity.com » Dec 09 2015 1:04am

Lurkin - I'll second John's statement here. As a general rule, steel fails safer and gives you some warning signs. It bends before it brakes. Welds tend to be stronger than the materials welded. The wild card is the areas around the welds - they can be weakened by the welding process. With reasonably good welding technique (which is not that hard to achieve in 2015 even for China) this would be of no concern. If you ask me, I vote for steel specifically because of its inherently stronger nature compared to aluminum. That's the general basis for my speculation. I'll try to get some pictures of the welds and post here for you.
Lurkin wrote:
vadicus wrote:I am in contact with the manufacturer and have all the data I need so far.
Which is what exactly? The only information in this thread of any substance was provided by other people.
vadicus wrote:I have inspected the quality of the welds and they look good.
Would you share photos of these welds?
vadicus wrote:The stress/crash and long term use stats is something we are missing here. Comparative analysis of the most common frames in terms of material fatigue, tensile strengths, elongation, etc. would be great. I haven't seen other ebike frame manufacturers and/or third parties offering that yet, so I wouldn't expect this manufacturer to have anything like that.
To be fair, I'm not sure if I've seen this from bike manufacturers...
vadicus wrote:The plastic cover test, albeit not too scientific but entertaining, was a good start. There is a general consensus that that steel is stronger than aluminum alloys on most bikes that we use for conversions, so, if we assume that these or other similar frames are made of good grade steel, we'll probably need to focus on the welds and variations in geometries that would necessitate different requirements for weld qualities.
So what is the steel grade of this frame? The 'grade' I got was meaningless. 'good grade' doesn't mean anything either.
vadicus wrote:Of course, there are a lot of liability issues as Lurkin implied and that keeps many people out of this business. Even sellers of regular bikes won't sell you a bike until you sign waivers. With ebikes, the risks are higher due to higher speeds and weights. This is where safety data can be useful for managing these risks and avoid FUD.
Which you don't seem to have, yet you are still acting as a distributor for this frame... so what is your apparent belief of the safety and/or strength of this frame actually based on? Speculation and asking other people for information is not reassuring.
Last edited by Powervelocity.com on Dec 09 2015 12:19pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by John in CR » Dec 09 2015 8:48am

Exactly. There are very valid reasons the overwhelming majority of the world's motorcycles are still made of steel, and that it took so long and so much R&D to begin using aluminum in the frames to gain stiffness while weighing a bit less.

Another reason for us to stay with steel is the ease of modification or prepare without worries about heat affected zones or needing to heat treat the frames or parts again.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 09 2015 1:32pm

I'm a fan of steel. Just the feel of aluminum and and how it cracks.
2015 there are many options on what ypu buy so why bet these guy up. More different makes and models will just push the end results further , faster and cheaper.
Willing to help test one PM me.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Powervelocity.com » Dec 09 2015 3:16pm

Here, Lurkin, some weld pics. It's hard to see under the paint (I wish I had an X ray machine for this), but as far as I can tell on the surface, they are reliable and clean (My opinion obviously - you can make your own judgement). I've highlighted the weld on the pic where head tube is connecting to the frame (I guess that's the biggest potential area of concern).
IMAG1449.jpg
Head Tube Welds
IMAG1438.jpg
IMAG1443.jpg
IMAG1447.jpg
IMAG1448.jpg
IMAG1451.jpg
IMAG1452.jpg
IMAG1453.jpg
IMAG1454.jpg
IMAG1455.jpg
IMAG1456.jpg
Attachments
IMAG1452.jpg

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by ecycler » Dec 10 2015 2:08am

So this is the same frame that em3ev sells? Can you post some close up pics of the chainring side of the BB? Tough to see the welds very well under white paint and this lighting, but I will give them a B at first glance. I would entertain riding this thing around at 45-50mph, but I have also been known to take motorcycles north of 185mph...

John is dead right about cheap cloned motors ending up in all these bikes anyways, haha.
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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by Samd » Dec 10 2015 1:09pm

Johns logic fails. Two wrongs don't make it right. Cloned motors dont leave out vital geometry sections. And chinese companies have actually improved motors by paying for development.
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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $650 Shipped in US

Post by ozman » Dec 10 2015 3:34pm

Bigger phase wires get them to spend just a little more :shock:

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $620 Shipped in US

Post by Powervelocity.com » Dec 11 2015 3:25pm

I have the last frame left and dropping the price to let it go. I stand by what I've posted previously - it's a great frame for the money and is a good choice for someone who is after ample battery space, solid dropouts, full suspension, and strength of steel. Will be shipped 2-day priority (within US). PM me - first come first serve.

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Re: Bomber Style Frame Set Black/White - $620 Shipped in US

Post by Routybouty » Dec 12 2015 9:18pm

Wow, lots of drama for just selling a frame! Good luck with sale!
Waiting for that perfect ebike.




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