Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by larsb » Dec 21 2019 3:49am

Maybe powervelocity can buy them from vasili, change fets, call them mega-nuc controller and double the price?
Ride on!

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Dec 21 2019 7:03am

ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 20 2019 4:30pm


I'm toying with the idea...no actual action yet.
The controller is limited by heat build-up.
The shell can dump heat at it's size only so quickly.
More heat sinking at the heat spreaders and the mosfets can deal out more amperage and live.
What I'm toying with is adding external heat spreaders.
This will allow me to add a much larger heat sink under the controller.
The controller would remain exactly as is from Nucular.
Nothing added would change the controller in any way.
It would all bolt on right in place where the current heat spreader screws are now.
After that, cooling can be expanded any way you like.
I'm thinking a water jacket, pump and radiator.
There's no reason the mosfets can't deal with 500 phase amps continuous if they stay cool.

Have you been able to heat your controller so you need extra cooling?
I have only done a few test runs in the woods in cold, wet and dirty conditions. So it has good conditions to stay cool, and my bike is not very heavy. In these conditions it was just 20 degrees C, my previous controller got to about 85 degrees C in the same conditions.

Sure, if you go fast for a long time with a heavy vehicle you would probably be able to get it hot.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Dec 21 2019 10:43am

I too am waiting for summer to see if the controller will heat but for the moment it has reached 25 degrees with an outside temperature of 12 degrees it was rotating at 500 amps phase and towing a load of 400 kg. The temperature of the controller IS approximately the same as that of the engine. Last summer the engine heated to 47 degrees when it was 35 degrees outside so I think the controller will not heat more.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Dec 21 2019 11:51am


j bjork wrote:Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Dec 21 2019 4:39pm

john61ct wrote:
Dec 21 2019 11:51am
j bjork wrote:Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
Wrong from me, I mean 22s
Thanks for pointing it out, I did´nt notice it myself :)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 22 2019 12:01am

j bjork wrote:
Dec 21 2019 7:03am
ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 20 2019 4:30pm


I'm toying with the idea...no actual action yet.
The controller is limited by heat build-up.
The shell can dump heat at it's size only so quickly.
More heat sinking at the heat spreaders and the mosfets can deal out more amperage and live.
What I'm toying with is adding external heat spreaders.
This will allow me to add a much larger heat sink under the controller.
The controller would remain exactly as is from Nucular.
Nothing added would change the controller in any way.
It would all bolt on right in place where the current heat spreader screws are now.
After that, cooling can be expanded any way you like.
I'm thinking a water jacket, pump and radiator.
There's no reason the mosfets can't deal with 500 phase amps continuous if they stay cool.

Have you been able to heat your controller so you need extra cooling?
I have only done a few test runs in the woods in cold, wet and dirty conditions. So it has good conditions to stay cool, and my bike is not very heavy. In these conditions it was just 20 degrees C, my previous controller got to about 85 degrees C in the same conditions.

Sure, if you go fast for a long time with a heavy vehicle you would probably be able to get it hot.
You are making a good point. Right now I don't have a motor beefy enough to run the controller to where it gets hot. That will change early January. I have a motor coming from Russia that is going to push this controller pretty hard. I admit, I don't know if the controller will get hot or not, but I'll be doing 500 phase amps pretty much continuous and that's the max for this controller. IMHO, cooling will become a problem.
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 22 2019 12:04am

john61ct wrote:
Dec 21 2019 11:51am
j bjork wrote:Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
I think you are pushing your luck at 24S. There's no room for the controller to deal with voltage spikes and other unsavory situations. I'd say 22S is about all the more I care to risk on a 100v controller and that makes me nervous. 20S is not going to create issues.
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john61ct   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Dec 22 2019 2:22am


ElectricGod wrote:
john61ct wrote:
Dec 21 2019 11:51am
j bjork wrote:Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
I think you are pushing your luck at 24S. There's no room for the controller to deal with voltage spikes and other unsavory situations. I'd say 22S is about all the more I care to risk on a 100v controller and that makes me nervous. 20S is not going to create issues.
Yes, I was not in any way suggesting going that high.

Just noting that @j bjork was not counting right, their stated voltages did not agree.

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PITMIX   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Dec 22 2019 4:13am

Vasili is currently developing a bms 24s so I think that Nuculars electronics controllers are ready to accept this voltage.
Maybe you will need to update the firmware.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

john61ct   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Dec 22 2019 4:24am


PITMIX wrote:Vasili is currently developing a bms 24s
Ooh look forward to that!


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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Ohbse » Dec 22 2019 4:47am

PITMIX wrote:
Dec 22 2019 4:13am
Vasili is currently developing a bms 24s so I think that Nuculars electronics controllers are ready to accept this voltage.
Maybe you will need to update the firmware.
The 24s is for other chemistries with lower voltage such as lifepo4. Definitely would not recommend going above 20 or 21s, as EG said it does not leave much room for voltage spikes.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Dec 22 2019 5:27am

As I said 24s was just a writing error, I meant 22s.
In the specification it says 90v max, that is what I will get with 22s at 4,1v. (in the menues it actually says 95v max, that would be really pushing it)
As I understand it Vasili has a testbench with a qs 138, what is what I will use too.

I am not an electronics expert, but as I understand it the controller design has a lot to do with what voltage ripple you will get. Also what motor you are using. And with that how close to the components max voltage you can "safely" go. So my thought was when they test with that motor and specify that max voltage, it would probably mean that this combination is relatively safe. But I wanted to ask to make sure, as it is pushing the limits.

I am using 12s modules, so in any case I have to cut out cells. I want to get as much as possible out of my combination of motor and controller, and battery too. 21s will be hard to make, the next step would probably be 20s. That would be safer, but it would also mean less power and speed. I could gear for the same speed, but then loose torque all the way and use less of the cells I already have.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Dec 22 2019 6:15am

Actually, if a 24S BMS is really in the works, I assume with valuable integration features,

I'd stick with 24S and just accept sacrificing the top SoC range necessary to not stress the controller.

That way in future if / as the setup gets more robust for over 90V, you'll be running at maximum efficiency **plus** adding to your range by approaching 4.0Vpc, maybe higher, in setting out anyway.

And maximizing longevity in the meantime.

Completely scratch that if Vasili's reasoning was just to accommodate LFP, where 24S is under 80V, and the BMS will adapt to 22S for other LI chemistries.



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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 23 2019 4:50am

No idea about the BMS...never even looked at it myself.
BUT, if he's designing it, then my guess is it isn't going to work with low voltage cells only.
It will work with LIPO and LION too...probably even high voltage LIPO.

That's just a guess of course...since i don't really know.
j bjork wrote:
Dec 22 2019 5:27am
As I said 24s was just a writing error, I meant 22s.
In the specification it says 90v max, that is what I will get with 22s at 4,1v.

I am not an electronics expert, but as I understand it the controller design has a lot to do with what voltage ripple you will get. Also what motor you are using. And with that how close to the components max voltage you can "safely" go.
Sorry if i seemed critical. It was not intentional.

I've never done it...no reason why...no lack of test equipment...but seeing actual ripple is not that hard to do. All you need is an oscilloscope and I have one of those. Connect it's test probes right at the controller. This is about as good as you will get without taking the controller apart so you can measure right at the power busses inside. Anyway, the best way to do it is to run the EV hard with the scope reading the power busses directly. You'll get to see the power ripple. my suspicion is that regen will produce quite a lot of ripple.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Dec 23 2019 4:59am

Electric God i hope that is not the motor from Russia that im thinking about because you may get disappointed

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Dec 23 2019 6:01am

For those who worried about 21S vs 22S "lower speed" - there is field weakening that works pretty well especially with IPM qs motors, you will not feel big difference, since you can spin motor up to 95Vac of hardware limit when battery is less than 90V

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by macribs » Dec 23 2019 8:10am

VasiliSk wrote:
Dec 18 2019 8:56am
larsb rc motors not a good thing to use, you probably will not be able to use max phase current because of high current ripple, only about 70-80%
What he is not saying is go for the 24f rather then 12f and take it to the max. ;)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by madin88 » Dec 23 2019 10:14am

VasiliSk wrote:
Dec 23 2019 4:59am
i hope that is not the motor from Russia that im thinking about because you may get disappointed
What is the reason why mentioned motor might be disappointing? Is it the same thing as it is with RC motors, or something different (like BEMF)?


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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 23 2019 11:19am

VasiliSk wrote:
Dec 23 2019 4:59am
Electric God i hope that is not the motor from Russia that im thinking about because you may get disappointed
Obviously not in this controller thread...

What motor are you thinking of? This? It has never been an RC motor that I know of. I have one arriving in a few days.

Image

If this is the motor you are thinking of, what were your findings?
IF not this motor, then which one and please describe what you found.
Feel free to PM me and I'll I can create a new thread on whatever it is you are referring to.
Who knows...I might even buy the motor you are referring to and investigate it myself!
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 26 2019 11:52pm

Looking on the wiki and the 2.5 schematic, the 24 fet controller internal connectors are not listed.

Which of these 2 open connectors is the control connector?

Image
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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Offroader » Dec 29 2019 11:38am

Is the 24 Fet controller good to go for buying one now?

Is there any reason to wait for further modification or updates before purchasing the 24 Fet? Possibly like a better screen, or updated other parts inside the controller?

Thanks for some insight here.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Allex » Dec 29 2019 6:00pm

Just got got my controller from Moscow that I sent to them. Guys fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Offroader » Dec 29 2019 6:03pm

Is that something they do for everyone? How much extra did it cost you?

Why did you want it built into the Sur-Ron controller housing?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Allex » Dec 29 2019 6:31pm

Around 140USD for building it in.
Worth it for me, because it is plug and play, screw on using original mounts without hassling with new mounts and besides, it looks stock even though it is tuned!
This bike is so sick now! Belt drive and 12kW pops wheelies just like that at 50km/h
Tops at around 100km/h did not have time to experiment much with settings yet though.
16s13p 30q pack in original battery casing too!

It will be brutal with 20s

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