Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

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j bjork   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 18 2019 1:49am

Just like Izeman says, the point is that there is no switch to get out of limited mode. To get out of it you have to pull the brake 5 times in a row while standing still or something like that.

Like casainho and stancecoke did: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=87870

I don´t know much about programming, but I think if it can be done in a sheap chinese controller it should not be impossible in advanced controllers that are not limited in memory in the same way.
But it seems like no one is doing it. I think it would be an advantage over other controllers if nucular did it .

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by danielrlee » Jan 18 2019 2:39am

EG is on the money. You could use an Arduino to handle the logic of triggering the mode change via the 3-speed switch interface.
https://TorqueTech.co.uk : Electric bike spares, parts & accessories : 10% discount code ’ENDLESS10

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 18 2019 4:06am

Im still not sure how i should implement this 'feature' in meaning of whole system, it's not just single controller.
And also one needs press brake 5 times, other needs press brake and throttle, another enter password...

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 18 2019 4:22am

Yes, it can be a very big task to satisfy everyones wish for combination. I think the best way is to just have one option, but to be able to adjust that option.
For example, to exit limited mode you have to press a combination of buttons on the display. That is the only way to do it. But you can choose what combination.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by SlowCo » Jan 18 2019 5:02am

Basically a "legal" mode that can be set easily when pulled over. As the speed and wattage vary per country or state, it needs to be programmable to the desired max speed (rpm) and output watts (amps). I think that a simple switch option could do that when you hide a wire with a reed switch glued to somewhere on the bike and a magnet stuck onto it. Remove the magnet and it defaults into the programmed legal mode. If such a feature can be programmed in the software so that by pressing one or two buttons while holding the brake (cut off signal) at the same time it goes to that legal mode, that would be great.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 19 2019 8:38pm

izeman wrote:
Jan 18 2019 1:18am
No. That's not what he's talking about. :)
Believe me. We had a longer personal discussion about it.
IF you have such a switch (which WILL be found at close inspection) and this switch will enable higher power modes then you're busted.
And even if you don't have a switch and the setup menu of your controller is open to access all the time then this a illegal, as you just can program it too higher levels - at least in the EU.
Right...so HIDE the switch. Put it where it's not obvious. Cops don't know squat about EV's. They certainly don't know anything about your custom built EV. Lock the menu...that's fine and then put the tiny switch someplace hidden...done! I don't see how this is anything other than exactly what he's looking for. The 3-speed switch is exactly what he needs. HIDE it where it's not easy to find. Pro bikers do this all the time when they cheat and use motors in their seat tubes. They have a tiny switch somewhere that even the race judges that scrutinize everything won't see. The cops will NOT scrutinize your EV more closely than pro bike race officials will! I have tiny 3 position switches in my possession that are less than 1cm long and maybe 1.5mm wide. IF that's hard to hide...

Concealing the 3-speed switch IS the right answer. I'm pretty sure in 5 minutes on any EV, I could find as many places that are totally concealed to hide a micro switch that is VERY easy to access if you know it's there. Where those spots are on your friends EV...well I'll let him figure that out, but I'm 100% sure they exist.

I'm a devout believer in the KISS principal. Why make this hard or complex? I like the idea of a magnet on a reed switch. It's super simple and would look completely innocuous. I guess if you wanted to get more complicated, throw a small flip-flop circuit together. You pulse the input once and that turns on the first flip-flop. Have 4 flip-flops in series. This is a very common logic IC. Have 4 LEDs on the outputs of the flip-flops. Now you know how many more pulses are needed to get to the "illegal mode". Hit a momentary button to create the pulses and 4 button pushes later you are in turbo mode. The cops can hit that button until they turn green and all they will see is some LEDs light up. Obfuscate a little more. Put mosfets on the logic outputs instead of LEDs and now you can drive something like head lights or side lights. So what if you turn on your headlights for a second to get to turbo mode. It will totally throw the cops! They will think it's a light switch when it in fact does turn on the lights.

I honestly don't think this is a feature needed to be added to the controller. There's a zillion ways to do this.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by madin88 » Jan 21 2019 1:27pm

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 18 2019 4:06am
Im still not sure how i should implement this 'feature' in meaning of whole system, it's not just single controller.
And also one needs press brake 5 times, other needs press brake and throttle, another enter password...
What about a "reset button" which does something like following:
If this button is pressed for 3sec, the controller erases statistic screens (that screen where you can see that your e-bike more is a motorcycle), and that power mode settings get "overwritten" with a defined config file (eg: max speed 30kmh (a bit more is OK), max power 600W).
Program menu locked with PW.
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 19 2019 8:38pm
Right...so HIDE the switch. Put it where it's not obvious. Cops don't know squat about EV's. They certainly don't know anything about your custom built EV. Lock the menu...that's fine and then put the tiny switch someplace hidden...done! I don't see how this is anything other than exactly what he's looking for. The 3-speed switch is exactly what he needs.
You have right that most cops don't have the knowledge where to look or which button to press on a given display to look for settings or statistics which proof illegality, but they become more and more eductated. They make pictures of your bike and they know how to use google for doing some research on those things.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by crossbreak » Jan 21 2019 4:35pm

as soon as the EV is confiscated they will find any switch, reed switch where ever you hide it since they will search both controller and display connections. They now how a 3 speed siwtch work, they know the Power settings of a Cycle Analyst, BBSHD etc. and they know how to make bikes faster cause they can google (most likely they will also find this thread) and some of them may have tried it themselves. The guys that do this all have a more or less higher eductation and get payed quite well. Some of my mates went to german TÜV who does exactly such things, at least when they had their bachelors degree engineering. Hard to fool them.

The only way i see to make it both save and simple is the way that maddin suggested. Make it easily resettable and make the menu password protected. This way there is no evidence, just in case. If you implement that, your product will really be superior.
Only max speed/amps/power settings and statistics shall be reset, the motor, language and other settings should stay untouched

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by larsb » Jan 21 2019 4:55pm

+1 on that!
Ride on :D

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 22 2019 5:39am

Yes, a reset option is good. But I think it is even better to not have those menues at all as long as you are in limited mode.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by notger » Jan 22 2019 7:12am

madin88 wrote:
Jan 21 2019 1:27pm
VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 18 2019 4:06am
Im still not sure how i should implement this 'feature' in meaning of whole system, it's not just single controller.
And also one needs press brake 5 times, other needs press brake and throttle, another enter password...
What about a "reset button" which does something like following:
If this button is pressed for 3sec, the controller erases statistic screens (that screen where you can see that your e-bike more is a motorcycle), and that power mode settings get "overwritten" with a defined config file (eg: max speed 30kmh (a bit more is OK), max power 600W).
Program menu locked with PW.
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 19 2019 8:38pm
Right...so HIDE the switch. Put it where it's not obvious. Cops don't know squat about EV's. They certainly don't know anything about your custom built EV. Lock the menu...that's fine and then put the tiny switch someplace hidden...done! I don't see how this is anything other than exactly what he's looking for. The 3-speed switch is exactly what he needs.
You have right that most cops don't have the knowledge where to look or which button to press on a given display to look for settings or statistics which proof illegality, but they become more and more eductated. They make pictures of your bike and they know how to use google for doing some research on those things.
Love an combination of the ideas 5 times brake lever signal initiates erasing of statistics and swithes to a eco mode 30km/h and 600Watts.

Cops stopped me two times in the last 3 years onec the put my bike on a mobile speed testing stand lukily i hab the locked firmware from adaptto and could switch to eco.mode (about 32km/h and 600watts) still they started to argue with me cause they kne there where options to change the menue. i played stupid and at he end they let me go, still another possibility would have been the take my bike to some specialists and they will for sure find out that this is not an legal pedelec on Austrian streets.

So id love to see an worst-case-statistic-erase-powermode-change firmware with whatever possibility to start it, but i think as stealty as possible would be good. cause sometimes cops just want to have a chat and a look at your bike would be shitty if id rease all the statistics and power modes every time i freak out cause cops pull me over.

Another totally amazing option would be---->
-> Cops pull you over -->you press the left breake lever 5 Times--> statistics and power mode get save into an internal "hidden" file--> and power mode gets changed to legal (expl. 25km/h 600Watts).

-> Cops are impressed by your bike, but surprised how slow and weak this bike is, you have a bell, cat-eys, bike lights and sure a helmet so they very friendly will say good by and you can go your way.

-> you hop on your bike press the right! break lever five times and all the old statistics and power modes ´restore again from the saved file - so you can go on

-> if cops really think they wanna bring the bike to a ebike-specialist to check controller options - you can still press 3X left -> 2X right and 3X left brake lever and statistics and power modes get erased without the option of restoring

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notger   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by notger » Jan 22 2019 7:20am

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 12 2016 3:01pm

Micro Nucular Controller 6F - at production
16S Micro Nucular BMS extreme small size for scooters - planned
24S Nucular BMS for any kind controller - planned

Micro Nucular controller 6F + LCD price 240$ (includes shipping) (ETA Feb 2019)
Nucular controller 12F + LCD price 350$ (includes shipping) (ETA March 2019)
Hi, Vasili could you make a photo with all three nucular sizes 6F, 12F, 26F in their housings and with a display to get an idea of the size differences beside each other.

And how far is BMS (16s or 24s) developement or production ?
Micro Nucular controller 6F is availeable in February ?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Bartosh » Jan 22 2019 7:25am

And now imagine you're going down a hill using your brakes all the time...

Wtf?! What's happened with all the stats and settings? :)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 22 2019 7:33am

dreams are allowed, all this ideas have their room but didnt talk we about an "emergency" situation?
flashing configs with pulling brake levers and stuff like that....
i would be happy if i can reset to legal something. maybe a reset means:

-no different modes anymore, no options to change back on the fly
-statistics a template fake like: max speed 31, max power 726w, used AH etc.

of course it will be so cool if i can ride after that with all settings getting back but
i dont know how much work that is to implement. the simplest would be allready enough for me....

just kill all to a legal fake and cruisin legal home. connect your pc/handy to flash your (saved) settings to get everything back.

a reset should even kill the implemented function to reset the device. that would be bullet proof.
Not handy but you could sleep very well even if they confiscated your 60kg Hub Monster Bike.
AND: even they read this topic or knowing about the function of the controller to reset it with a key combo....after the use of this function they cant proof that you have used it. means in most states: not guilty :D

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notger   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by notger » Jan 22 2019 8:08am

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 22 2019 7:25am
And now imagine you're going down a hill using your brakes all the time...

Wtf?! What's happened with all the stats and settings? :)
It for sure has to follow some kind o rythm or signals/per/seconds rule.
exmpl. -> 5 fast break Singals within 2 seconds otherwise its ignored as setting-cange.
AND/OR those brake signals can just be used with 0 or 0-10 km/h (so whe cops actually pull you over)

Thats actually nothing new, i think CAv3 or the german-Forumscontroller offers Singal input with brake lever signals.
I even think adaptto thought about implementing something like that

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 23 2019 6:45am

Image
From 24F to 6F
BMS under development
6F goes to March due to production delay and chinese NY, we are preparing some awesome news

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tahitiboob   1 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by tahitiboob » Jan 24 2019 5:01am

I look forward to the model 24 fet
how much is there of personn to serve before me for 24 fet

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ElectricGod   100 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 24 2019 3:15pm

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 23 2019 6:45am
Image
From 24F to 6F
BMS under development
6F goes to March due to production delay and chinese NY, we are preparing some awesome news
That 24 fet controller will be very small. I'm betting it will be similar in size to a typical 18 fet controller. It will have mosfets on both long edges of the board and screwed down to both side walls of the shell if it uses TO-220 mosfets. It will have 2 rows of 12 mosfets each. There's no other way to shrink the length of the controller. Looking inside the 12 and 6 fet versions, the components are packed in there pretty tightly to make them as compact as possible. The 24 fet version will be too. Well maybe there is...there are multi-mosfet packages and various SMT options that take up less space than TO-220's.

These come to mind. I probably missed a couple package choices too.
D2PAK
TO-220FP-5
ISOPLUS-i4-PAK-5


I'm wanting the 24 fet version too!

I know how big the 12 fet is and it's a good bit smaller than most other 12 fets. This is a PowerVelocity 12 fet next to the Nucular 12 fet, next to the 6 fet.

Image

Image

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Fastassmotors » Jan 24 2019 4:06pm

I need a 12 fet one I'm guessing it would work great sensorless on a turnigy c80100 130kv no modifications. 18s.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 25 2019 1:54am

Fastassmotors that's too much erpm right now, i didn't work on sensorless since FOC mode gives more benefits, it needs some serious software improvements to spin up to 2khz

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 25 2019 2:47pm

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 25 2019 1:54am
Fastassmotors that's too much erpm right now, i didn't work on sensorless since FOC mode gives more benefits, it needs some serious software improvements to spin up to 2khz
What are the eRPM limits sensored and sensorless?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 25 2019 2:49pm

Fastassmotors wrote:
Jan 24 2019 4:06pm
I need a 12 fet one I'm guessing it would work great sensorless on a turnigy c80100 130kv no modifications. 18s.
Get an alien Power C80100 instead. Turnigy makes garbage motors. Aliens cost nearly the exact same amount and are far better for EV's.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Fastassmotors » Jan 25 2019 4:35pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 25 2019 2:49pm
Fastassmotors wrote:
Jan 24 2019 4:06pm
I need a 12 fet one I'm guessing it would work great sensorless on a turnigy c80100 130kv no modifications. 18s.
Get an alien Power C80100 instead. Turnigy makes garbage motors. Aliens cost nearly the exact same amount and are far better for EV's.
I already have it haha crap

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Fastassmotors » Jan 25 2019 4:39pm

Since I already have it if I add halls will I be ok. Which kind too. I really don't wanna rewind.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 25 2019 5:14pm

Fastassmotors wrote:
Jan 25 2019 4:39pm
Since I already have it if I add halls will I be ok. Which kind too. I really don't wanna rewind.
This is waaaaay off topic. I'll PM you.

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