15/18F Silent Controller 36-150V BT-iOS-Android/GPS-$179-199

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by marcexec » Oct 24 2016 7:23am

Highfreak wrote:1)If I am using 2 of these controllers, is there any chance I can use 1 CA V3 for both controllers? I suspect I cannot, so therefore I probably should not use just one on one controller due to the modified signal one controller will be getting, causing the 2 motors to be out of sync. I will be using one 100.8v (HOC) 46 AH battery for both controllers so the HVC and LVC should not be an issue. 2)And how does the 3 speed switch fit into this wiring scenario? Well what do you think?
You could just set the CA to count double the amps from one controller, they'd roughly be using the same amount of power anyway, right?
Syncing two motors to be treated as one is not practically achievable, even less likely on independent hubs as you are planning.
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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by MrDude_1 » Oct 24 2016 8:28am

Highfreak wrote:1)If I am using 2 of these controllers, is there any chance I can use 1 CA V3 for both controllers? I suspect I cannot, so therefore I probably should not use just one on one controller due to the modified signal one controller will be getting, causing the 2 motors to be out of sync. I will be using one 100.8v (HOC) 46 AH battery for both controllers so the HVC and LVC should not be an issue. 2)And how does the 3 speed switch fit into this wiring scenario? Well what do you think?
sure you can.
Throttle goes to the CA. then it splits to the throttle input of both controllers.
The shunt needs to go between the battery and the controllers... so that both controllers go through the same shunt.

Thats pretty much it. The CA will regulate based on the shunt amperage and your throttle input. each controller will do its own thing with the throttle input.
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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by Highfreak » Oct 24 2016 3:05pm

Thanks guys! My second question was, how will my 3 speed switch work/ wire into this configuration?

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 24 2016 4:06pm

If your 3 speed switch runs via CA, nothing special needs to be done. The CA will limit the throttle voltage output for both controllers at the same time. This would be safest bet. If you want to run the switch to the controllers directly, you'll need to configure both controller the same for the speed (and/or better, current) limits. Then parallel the X1, X2 on both controllers run to the switch. Adding a couple of diodes may be a good idea to prevent a backfeed from X1/X2 on one controller to X1/x2 to the other controller and the other way around.
Highfreak wrote:Thanks guys! My second question was, how will my 3 speed switch work/ wire into this configuration?

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by paracidium » Oct 27 2016 7:32am

Powervelocity: Are you able to sell the bluetooth programming add-on on its own for someone to retrofit onto a similar controller?

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 27 2016 8:59am

Yes, but I can't guarantee that it will work. Similar controllers turned out to be not similar in some cases.

[/b]
paracidium wrote:Powervelocity: Are you able to sell the bluetooth programming add-on on its own for someone to retrofit onto a similar controller?

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by paracidium » Oct 27 2016 10:12am

Ok that's great thanks, I'll find out the exact details of the controller I intend to try it on and send you a PM

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Re: 18F Sine/Silent Controller 36-150V Bluetooth/GPS alarm-$

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 28 2016 8:43pm

15Fet controllers are now available for immediate orders. Can be great middle ground for situations where 12Fet is too small and 18Fet controller is too big.
Basically, closing the gap between the two. Plus lower price at $179 with free shipping within the US. Recommended for builds up to 6kw. Thinking MXUS 3000 and likes.
All options including wireless programming via Android app are available. Enjoy and stay tuned for more.

Here is a picture for size comparison. The 15Fet one is in the middle.
12-15-18-3.jpg
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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Baron » Oct 30 2016 2:19am

Some things I noticed while experimenting with the programming software you sent me:

After a lot of trial and error, I needed to set LVC to 48V to get around 70V LVC for my 20S lipo battery.

battery amps are actually about 5a higher than what you program them to be, according to the wattmeter on my batteries. it could a faulty wattmeter reading but it shows 45a when i set the program to 40a.

I haven't begun trying to get regen braking to work yet, I figured I'd ask here first. What should I set for Regen(V)? I'm running 20S lipo, which is 84V full, 74V nominal.

I want to use the green button on the throttle you sold me for regen, you told me to wire one wire to EBS - and the other to the ground (black). I'm pretty sure my wiring is right, but I'll double check tomorrow. I'm not getting any regen with Regen(V) set to 65. I'll post a screenshot of my settings
programming controller 48v lvc.png
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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Powervelocity.com » Oct 30 2016 6:07pm

Yes, that's a well known quirk with the old software, it comes historically from the fact that it was written for lower voltage controllers (like up to 48v). We have fixed that issue in the smartphone application, so the settings you set are the settings you get. If you are using the Windows software, simply multiply your wanted value by 0.69 to get the corresponding value in the software for LVC and regen voltage.

For example, your 65v regen settings will be around 94v actual. You wan to drop it to around 58v in the software to get 84v of actual regen voltage.
Also, 70v for 20s LVC sounds a bit too high. Try to drop it to 60v actual, that is 41v in the settings and test.

You may also want change the strength from current 40 units to 70. This needs to be adjusted individually to each motor. 40 may be to weak for yours.
Baron wrote:Some things I noticed while experimenting with the programming software you sent me:

After a lot of trial and error, I needed to set LVC to 48V to get around 70V LVC for my 20S lipo battery.

battery amps are actually about 5a higher than what you program them to be, according to the wattmeter on my batteries. it could a faulty wattmeter reading but it shows 45a when i set the program to 40a.

I haven't begun trying to get regen braking to work yet, I figured I'd ask here first. What should I set for Regen(V)? I'm running 20S lipo, which is 84V full, 74V nominal.

I want to use the green button on the throttle you sold me for regen, you told me to wire one wire to EBS - and the other to the ground (black). I'm pretty sure my wiring is right, but I'll double check tomorrow. I'm not getting any regen with Regen(V) set to 65. I'll post a screenshot of my settings
programming controller 48v lvc.png

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Highfreak » Nov 01 2016 4:10pm

Pertaining to my trike application (2xQs 205s and 2 of your 18 fet controllers) I would like to run 1 motor in reverse, not out of absolute necessity, but for aesthetics and to have both brake discs on the inside of wheel. That being said, I would like to be assured that I can run 1 motor in reverse and have both controllers driving motors at the same performance so there is no left and right imbalance of power or at least tweekable to compensate for small variations. Will I probably have to go through the hall/phase 36 wire combo dance :( ?
If I also buy the CA V3 will the appropriate shunt be included? Thanks.

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 01 2016 5:15pm

I imagine what kind of fun you'll have riding this thing in the wilds of Alaska ;) No need drilling vents or pumping statoraid - all natural cooling.

Technically, you don't have to configure the controller running in reverse. The simple trick to have the motor running in reverse is switching any of two phases. Otherwise controllers can be set identically. Phase and hall combos for many motors including QS205 have been tested and documented, so no dancing there. I've run QS205 for year now myself, so I have the firsthand knowledge of the right combo.

Definitely, this build will take some tuning to make it right. With two independent motors on one axle you will technically have no differential to compensate for varied distances traveled by the wheels on turns. Depending on how hard you will be riding the vehicle, this may not be a big deal or can add some tire slippage on turns (can be a bad or cool thing).



Highfreak wrote:Pertaining to my trike application (2xQs 205s and 2 of your 18 fet controllers) I would like to run 1 motor in reverse, not out of absolute necessity, but for aesthetics and to have both brake discs on the inside of wheel. That being said, I would like to be assured that I can run 1 motor in reverse and have both controllers driving motors at the same performance so there is no left and right imbalance of power or at least tweekable to compensate for small variations. Will I probably have to go through the hall/phase 36 wire combo dance :( ?
If I also buy the CA V3 will the appropriate shunt be included? Thanks.

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Highfreak » Nov 01 2016 7:39pm

PM sent :D

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Highfreak » Nov 02 2016 12:51pm

Did you receive my pm?


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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Baron » Nov 02 2016 5:30pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:Yes, that's a well known quirk with the old software, it comes historically from the fact that it was written for lower voltage controllers (like up to 48v). We have fixed that issue in the smartphone application, so the settings you set are the settings you get. If you are using the Windows software, simply multiply your wanted value by 0.69 to get the corresponding value in the software for LVC and regen voltage.

For example, your 65v regen settings will be around 94v actual. You wan to drop it to around 58v in the software to get 84v of actual regen voltage.
Also, 70v for 20s LVC sounds a bit too high. Try to drop it to 60v actual, that is 41v in the settings and test.

You may also want change the strength from current 40 units to 70. This needs to be adjusted individually to each motor. 40 may be to weak for yours.
thanks, so i just need to adjust the regen(v) setting to get regen to work? what does that value even mean anyway?

I should have mentioned, I have the 12 fet controller. That's why I have battery amps at 40

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 02 2016 9:44pm

The regen voltage setting limits the voltage generated by the motor during regenerative braking to prevent the battery pack from damage. For example, your 20s pack can be charged with the maximum 84v and you motor can generate voltages above 100v. To make sure your battery does not get 100v, the controller will limit the voltage to 84v and that's what the regen(v) does. Higher settings above your battery pack voltage would still allow braking but that would not be good for your battery. Some BMSs would also cut off the reverse current if the voltage is above your pack voltage level and regenerative braking will not work.

It will not work either if the regen(v) is lower than your state of charge voltage. So, ideally it needs to be set at the 84v in your case or 1-2v lower (82-83v). If you use CA, it will clearly tell you what the reverse voltage is during braking, so you will know if the regen(v) needs to be adjusted.


Baron wrote:
Powervelocity.com wrote:Yes, that's a well known quirk with the old software, it comes historically from the fact that it was written for lower voltage controllers (like up to 48v). We have fixed that issue in the smartphone application, so the settings you set are the settings you get. If you are using the Windows software, simply multiply your wanted value by 0.69 to get the corresponding value in the software for LVC and regen voltage.

For example, your 65v regen settings will be around 94v actual. You wan to drop it to around 58v in the software to get 84v of actual regen voltage.
Also, 70v for 20s LVC sounds a bit too high. Try to drop it to 60v actual, that is 41v in the settings and test.

You may also want change the strength from current 40 units to 70. This needs to be adjusted individually to each motor. 40 may be to weak for yours.
thanks, so i just need to adjust the regen(v) setting to get regen to work? what does that value even mean anyway?

I should have mentioned, I have the 12 fet controller. That's why I have battery amps at 40

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Ecyclist » Nov 07 2016 9:44pm

I asked that before, but didn't get a straight answer. Can anyone confirm that this controller will work with 48v GNG motor aka small block from Lightning Rods? I'm looking into buying it because I like the low voltage adjustment function. I have a bunch of Tesla batteries and I understand that these batteries can go down to 2.9V. I would like to use the controller to set the low voltage cut-off at 3.0V to maximize my range.
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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 07 2016 10:11pm

The motor has hall sensors, right? Chances are it will work fine or better than the kit controller but no one tested, hence no definitive yes. I can offer a 30-day return if you want to try it and report the result.

Most 18650 cells will go down to 2.9V without damage. Tesla cells are simply Panasonic cells NCR18650B. Good but a 4-year old technology as we now have 15% more capacity available in the same package and same or better charge/discharge rates. However, the deeper charge/discharge range is, the less cycles cells can handle in its lifetime. That's the reason Tesla makes available only 80% of the battery capacity and discourages charging above 90% SOC. This is how they can warranty the battery for 8 years.

Edit: One thing i forgot to mention is that cells salvaged from Tesla packs have PTC and CID protections removed which makes them more dangerous than cells sold via regular channels. If there is some kind of short or other unsafe situation, a fire is almost unavoidable. BMS is a must and I'd say a fuse is a must with those cells. Just a word of caution.


Ecyclist wrote:I asked that before, but didn't get a straight answer. Can anyone confirm that this controller will work with 48v GNG motor aka small block from Lightning Rods? I'm looking into buying it because I like the low voltage adjustment function. I have a bunch of Tesla batteries and I understand that these batteries can go down to 2.9V. I would like to use the controller to set the low voltage at 3.0V to maximize my range.

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by riba2233 » Nov 08 2016 8:37am

Powervelocity.com wrote:The motor has hall sensors, right? Chances are it will work fine or better than the kit controller but no one tested, hence no definitive yes. I can offer a 30-day return if you want to try it and report the result.

Most 18650 cells will go down to 2.9V without damage. Tesla cells are simply Panasonic cells NCR18650B.

Edit: One thing i forgot to mention is that cells salvaged from Tesla packs have PTC and CID protections removed which makes them more dangerous than cells sold via regular channels. If there is some kind of short or other unsafe situation, a fire is almost unavoidable. BMS is a must and I'd say a fuse is a must with those cells. Just a word of caution.

They are NCR18650 BE, not B. B and A have PTC as stock, BE and other middle and high power cells don't. (only laptop cells have PTC, and all cells have CID)
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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Ecyclist » Nov 08 2016 10:58am

Powervelocity.com wrote:The motor has hall sensors, right? Chances are it will work fine or better than the kit controller but no one tested, hence no definitive yes. I can offer a 30-day return if you want to try it and report the result.

Most 18650 cells will go down to 2.9V without damage. Tesla cells are simply Panasonic cells NCR18650B. Good but a 4-year old technology as we now have 15% more capacity available in the same package and same or better charge/discharge rates. However, the deeper charge/discharge range is, the less cycles cells can handle in its lifetime. That's the reason Tesla makes available only 80% of the battery capacity and discourages charging above 90% SOC. This is how they can warranty the battery for 8 years.

Edit: One thing i forgot to mention is that cells salvaged from Tesla packs have PTC and CID protections removed which makes them more dangerous than cells sold via regular channels. If there is some kind of short or other unsafe situation, a fire is almost unavoidable. BMS is a must and I'd say a fuse is a must with those cells. Just a word of caution.


Ecyclist wrote:I asked that before, but didn't get a straight answer. Can anyone confirm that this controller will work with 48v GNG motor aka small block from Lightning Rods? I'm looking into buying it because I like the low voltage adjustment function. I have a bunch of Tesla batteries and I understand that these batteries can go down to 2.9V. I would like to use the controller to set the low voltage at 3.0V to maximize my range.
Thank you for your direct answer, generous offer and words of caution.
I'm playing with my second build and taking my sweet time.
Once I put it all together and get ready to change the controller I will get back to you.
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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 08 2016 11:28am

I've built tons of battery packs with 18650 cells including those from Tesla packs. I can tell from my experience that while most of the other cells can be forgiving, you have to be extra careful with the Tesla cells. There are a few reasons.

First, they will get hot easily under rated load unlike LnMn type of cells, for example, so spacing (and, ideally, some kind of cooling) is a must. That can easily be a no go with some bikes where space is limited.
Second, they come bare which means that you have to make sure to put very good sleeves on them paying extra care to the top portion where where it's so easy to short the can to the cap.
Third, triangle recessed cap and indent at the bottom are not much weld-friendly. There's so much more opportunity for things to go wrong compared to regular round caps and non-indented can bottom.
Fourth, they will go violent when shorted. Explosions and bursts of flames are not unusual for these cells unlike other safer chemistries available today.

Those are my observations based on the experience building packs with these cells.

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Re: 18F Silent Controller 36-150V VAR.REGEN/BT Progrm/GPS-$1

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 08 2016 11:43am

We have recently made some improvements with the Bluetooth programming functionality which reminded me FluxZoom's question on what happens when you try to program the controller when the bike is in motion. I have a definitive answer now.

It will not explode or go haywire, that's for sure. With the latest update to the software, controller parameters can be programmed while a vehicle is in motion. The throttle will not be available for a brief moment while the controller receives the programming but then will go to normal operation.

Not that everyone will ever need to program a controller on a moving bike, but the added convenience is really very quick and easy way to change parameters (like dialing in 3 speed switch or regen strength) without a need to power cycle the vehicle. Just stop on a road side, change something quickly and go. I'll post a demo video in a bit.

FluxZoom wrote:
Powervelocity.com wrote:Here is just some idea of what the interface will be looking like.
https://youtu.be/3oLuxhYO5cw?t=70

Have you tried changing the settings and hitting that program button when you have the motor lifted and turning?

Any plans on working in the ability to add in temperature sensor data to the controller? Monitoring something like motor temperature might be a nice feature.

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Re: 15F/18F SW/Silent Controller 36-150V BT-Android/GPS-$179

Post by Baron » Nov 11 2016 1:56pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:The regen voltage setting limits the voltage generated by the motor during regenerative braking to prevent the battery pack from damage. For example, your 20s pack can be charged with the maximum 84v and you motor can generate voltages above 100v. To make sure your battery does not get 100v, the controller will limit the voltage to 84v and that's what the regen(v) does. Higher settings above your battery pack voltage would still allow braking but that would not be good for your battery. Some BMSs would also cut off the reverse current if the voltage is above your pack voltage level and regenerative braking will not work.

It will not work either if the regen(v) is lower than your state of charge voltage. So, ideally it needs to be set at the 84v in your case or 1-2v lower (82-83v). If you use CA, it will clearly tell you what the reverse voltage is during braking, so you will know if the regen(v) needs to be adjusted.


Baron wrote:
Powervelocity.com wrote:Yes, that's a well known quirk with the old software, it comes historically from the fact that it was written for lower voltage controllers (like up to 48v). We have fixed that issue in the smartphone application, so the settings you set are the settings you get. If you are using the Windows software, simply multiply your wanted value by 0.69 to get the corresponding value in the software for LVC and regen voltage.

For example, your 65v regen settings will be around 94v actual. You wan to drop it to around 58v in the software to get 84v of actual regen voltage.
Also, 70v for 20s LVC sounds a bit too high. Try to drop it to 60v actual, that is 41v in the settings and test.

You may also want change the strength from current 40 units to 70. This needs to be adjusted individually to each motor. 40 may be to weak for yours.
thanks, so i just need to adjust the regen(v) setting to get regen to work? what does that value even mean anyway?

I should have mentioned, I have the 12 fet controller. That's why I have battery amps at 40

What's a good value to set for regen force?

I use 10 of these batteries which have a max charge rate of 5C. So my 20S 10Ah pack would have a max charge rate of 50A.

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