5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

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5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Feb 29, 2016 1:52 pm

Finally we are ready for some action. Here is what's up for sales:

Image
Image
More pictures: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1153207

We call it Tiny BMS. Because it's obvious.
The BMS has been discussed in depth on this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=76011
Please keep all the technical Q&As there.

There are two models available:
1. "30A"
2. "150A"

Both models include:
- open protocol USART communication, USB and bluetooth available (BT module and USB-USART converter available separately)
- fully configurable settings: cell count, capacity, voltages, temperatures, etc.
- event log, statistics, encrypted bootloader for firmware updates
- 100 mA balancing current
- one internal and 2 external temperature probes (external probes available separately)
- status LED and warning buzzer
- 5V output
- CycleAnalyst v3 compatibility: periodic data broadcast using CA v3 protocol (there are Android apps available! here and here)

150A model adds some more value:
- obviously includes bidirectional 150A hall sensor
- includes additional connector for bidirectional 750A LEM sensor (sensor available separately)
- Includes aluminum plate for heatsinking and better mechanical protection
- includes two additional connectors with programmable universal inputs and outputs:
- - inputs: digital 0-70V;
- - inputs: analogue 0-70V;
- - outputs: digital active low (open drain) with PWM ability


This all gives the ability to:
- speed input: measure speed and predict remaining operating time or distance
- control the contactors (24V and 12V as well, thanks to PWM/DAC!)
- wakeup/ignition signal input
- drive of motor controller's "enable" input, so no need for large, heavy and expensive contactor in many cases (up to 600A at the moment, limited only by current sensor).

Please note that, while the product was tested and showed good results, it is still quite fresh and there could be some small bugs and some features might need some tweaking. Especially programmable IOs on 150A model. But firmware upgrades will be provided regularly and many new features will be available in time, and for free.
Last edited by circuit on Mar 23, 2017 7:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Feb 29, 2016 4:03 pm

I'm happy to see the inquiries rolling in.

18 pcs. left.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Mar 03, 2016 7:46 am

13 pcs left.
The BMS and accessories can be ordered directly on our website: https://www.energusps.com/shop
Expected dispatch date is 20th April.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by madin88 » Mar 06, 2016 10:58 am

does the 150A version have the same size as the 30A BMS?
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Mar 06, 2016 11:06 am

Same board + aluminum cooling plate.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by okashira » Mar 10, 2016 11:48 am

Ordered two 150A for testing + extras
401 euro total
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Mar 10, 2016 11:53 am

Thanks John.
11 pcs. remaining. :)
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by okashira » Mar 11, 2016 6:47 pm

What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by fechter » Mar 11, 2016 7:05 pm

Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by ecobully » Mar 12, 2016 12:33 am

Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Mar 12, 2016 2:27 am

okashira wrote:What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?
Yes, 10K NTC.
Programming cable is available separatelly.
fechter wrote:Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.
600A (actually 750A) is achieved with the same 150A part, but with external current sensor and contactors.
ecobully wrote:Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?
Just updated your quotation. Should receive it by email.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by macribs » Mar 12, 2016 9:39 pm

Not seen this before, great work getting this ready. Tons of great features, I like a lot. I hope you sell out quickly. Reliable BMS is hard to get by I've been told.
Can you explain the 600A rated? It seems you have written specs only for 30A and 150A. Nothing for 600A.
Have you done this BMS design and prototyping all by yourself? Impressive work man.

Edited: Put the rest of my ranting in the other thread where it belongs.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by okashira » Mar 12, 2016 10:56 pm

circuit wrote:
okashira wrote:What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?
Yes, 10K NTC.
Programming cable is available separatelly.
fechter wrote:Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.
600A (actually 750A) is achieved with the same 150A part, but with external current sensor and contactors.
ecobully wrote:Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?
Just updated your quotation. Should receive it by email.
Please change my order to a single 150A unit, usb cable only.
Also, please advise alternative payment method. Not gonna spend $30 on a wire.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Mar 13, 2016 4:24 am

okashira wrote:Please change my order to a single 150A unit, usb cable only.
Also, please advise alternative payment method. Not gonna spend $30 on a wire.
Updated quotation sent.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 3:04 am

Time is flying by. Today is the day, when BMS'es should have been shipped out.
Image

As promised, we completed all testing on time. Started packing and are shipping these out today to those, who have already sent their payments.

There are few more BMS boards remaining, both 30A and 150A. Feel free to order them online: https://www.energusps.com/shop
Now we accept PayPal as well.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Merlin » Apr 20, 2016 7:32 am

wonder why no one ask about "why only 16s"
maybe i try to ask: a 18/20s BMS would be a burner :D

anyway, ill take one for my wifes bike. :D

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 7:41 am

I knew there will be questions, and added a disclaimer on first post :) Short answer is: >16s not available for now.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Merlin » Apr 20, 2016 8:24 am

read it....also your "building" topic.

beside that 48v is enough meaning, i was thinking last years, more voltage, less amps, less heat, less energy losses.
in the last 12month where the Big-Buddy-Steal Frames come popular (Qulbix,EEB,Stealth,Vector etc) they are anyway not legal
(so theres no need to be at a max of 60v)
...none of them are running 12s. sure. these are 8-10KW bikes.
If they have to go with 50v, they have to buy a better battery, bigger controller, bigger wires.......etc.....

iam not an electric engineer. iam just the guy who sells 4 times more 4 quality stuff and nice "helpfull gadgets" to see whats going on with my battery.

youre right. for the oem market you have no options above 60v.
But as you are long enough here, you know there are hundreds of "us" :D

Please build a >20cell BMS :D

How many Users do you need to buy a 20s BMS for a first batch / exploring market ;D




did i have to order on your website, or is a pm also ok?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 8:58 am

Merlin wrote:If they have to go with 50v, they have to buy a better battery, bigger controller, bigger wires.......etc.....
Actually you would only need slightly thicker wires. Battery is the same (cells arranged differently), controller is the same (lower voltage mosfets hold more current). Also less issues picking DC/DC, charger etc.
The only thing why bike DIYers go for high voltage is slow motors. Somehow making it all non-standard, instead of rewinding or choosing other motor, seems easier way for many. But this has been discussed in depth already.
Merlin wrote:How many Users do you need to buy a 20s BMS for a first batch / exploring market ;D
1000 pcs could be a considerable starting point... Development of such product is quite expensive, too expensive to just explore the market, for small company anyway. We are keeping an eye on it, but there should be a real demand, that we don't expect from DIYers.
Merlin wrote:did i have to order on your website, or is a pm also ok?
Website would be much faster, as all order processing and accounting is done there anyway.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Merlin » Apr 20, 2016 9:25 am

thanks.

- what "box contents" are coming with your 150A bms?
connectors for the bms?

- i want to use Lipos with it. they have JST-XH connectors. can i order some from you?

- did i have to cover the bms to prevent shortings on the board? how can i cover it when this bms have to placed in a hardcase bag with lipos together?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 9:44 am

It comes with JST PH connectors and wires for cells.
These items can (and some should) be ordered separately: temperature sensors, bluetooth, current sensor, USB cable.

For JST XH you would need an adapter (probably could be found pre-made).

Bottom side of 150A model has an aluminum plate, while top side should be covered. Use whatever is convenient and prevents things from shorting. Note that aluminum plate should be mounted on metal surface to reach full current handling specification.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Merlin » Apr 20, 2016 9:51 am

thanx again. i will solder some adapters.


- what maximum peak current did you suggest without air flowing and not mounted to metal?
- will heat shrink be ok to cover complete bms?
- i will go the bluetooth way. the app is in the playstore? did i had all features configurable in ths app?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 11:01 am

I would say 40A average is a maximum for "150A" model without cooling. Heatshrink should be OK for that.
If you need more current, there are several options:
1. mount it on cool surface
2. add a heatsink
3. use external switch/contactor (it is supported)

App is under development still, but since the BMS supports protocol of Cycle Analyst v3, you can use one of several apps made by ES members:
1. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=45661
2. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 47#p895147
First one I have not tested
Second one works fine. But it is not public - you have to contact the author for invitation to download it from google play.

These apps are only for info display, as dashboard.
To configure and check all values, you will need a USB cable and do that on a Windows PC.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by madin88 » Apr 20, 2016 11:39 am

circuit wrote:I would say 40A average is a maximum for "150A" model without cooling. Heatshrink should be OK for that.
If you need more current, there are several options:
1. mount it on cool surface
2. add a heatsink
3. use external switch/contactor (it is supported)
according to the pics, the BMS has the FET's on top side and the cooling plate is attached on bottom side (with a gap between).
i wonder if this is enough thermal flow?
about the FET's: what resistance value they have (or what type)?
3pcs on 30 and 100A board as well, right?

I'm interested because i'd like to use a programmable and reliable BMS for my 13s4p battery. the 30A version would be perfect.
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Apr 20, 2016 11:51 am

Mosfet are these: PSMN3R3-80BS
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet ... 3-80BS.pdf

120A max, 3.5mΩ, 80V. Short peak up to 760A.

There are thermal vias under mosfet pads, and the gap between PCB and aluminum plate is filled with thick silicone pad.

Same mosfets and amount for 30A and 150A boards, only difference in current path is added cooling and current measurement (shunt vs. hall).
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