5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

[circuit]

Finally we are ready for some action. Here is what's up for sales:



More pictures: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1153207

We call it Tiny BMS. Because it's obvious.
The BMS has been discussed in depth on this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=76011
Please keep all the technical Q&As there.

There are two models available:
1. "30A"
2. "150A"

Both models include:
- open protocol USART communication, USB and bluetooth available (BT module and USB-USART converter available separately)
- fully configurable settings: cell count, capacity, voltages, temperatures, etc.
- event log, statistics, encrypted bootloader for firmware updates
- 100 mA balancing current
- one internal and 2 external temperature probes (external probes available separately)
- status LED and warning buzzer
- 5V output
- CycleAnalyst v3 compatibility: periodic data broadcast using CA v3 protocol (there are Android apps available! here and here)

150A model adds some more value:
- obviously includes bidirectional 150A hall sensor
- includes additional connector for bidirectional 750A LEM sensor (sensor available separately)
- Includes aluminum plate for heatsinking and better mechanical protection
- includes two additional connectors with programmable universal inputs and outputs:
- - inputs: digital 0-70V;
- - inputs: analogue 0-70V;
- - outputs: digital active low (open drain) with PWM ability


This all gives the ability to:
- speed input: measure speed and predict remaining operating time or distance
- control the contactors (24V and 12V as well, thanks to PWM/DAC!)
- wakeup/ignition signal input
- drive of motor controller's "enable" input, so no need for large, heavy and expensive contactor in many cases (up to 600A at the moment, limited only by current sensor).

Please note that, while the product was tested and showed good results, it is still quite fresh and there could be some small bugs and some features might need some tweaking. Especially programmable IOs on 150A model. But firmware upgrades will be provided regularly and many new features will be available in time, and for free.

[circuit]

I'm happy to see the inquiries rolling in.

18 pcs. left.

[circuit]

13 pcs left.
The BMS and accessories can be ordered directly on our website: https://www.energusps.com/shop
Expected dispatch date is 20th April.

[madin88]

does the 150A version have the same size as the 30A BMS?

[circuit]

Same board + aluminum cooling plate.

[okashira]

Ordered two 150A for testing + extras
401 euro total

[circuit]

Thanks John.
11 pcs. remaining.

[okashira]

What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?

[fechter]

Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.

[ecobully]

Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?

[circuit]

What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?

Yes, 10K NTC.
Programming cable is available separatelly.

Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.

600A (actually 750A) is achieved with the same 150A part, but with external current sensor and contactors.

Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?

Just updated your quotation. Should receive it by email.

[macribs]

Not seen this before, great work getting this ready. Tons of great features, I like a lot. I hope you sell out quickly. Reliable BMS is hard to get by I've been told.
Can you explain the 600A rated? It seems you have written specs only for 30A and 150A. Nothing for 600A.
Have you done this BMS design and prototyping all by yourself? Impressive work man.

Edited: Put the rest of my ranting in the other thread where it belongs.

[okashira]

What kind of temperature sensor does it use? 10k ntc thermistoer?
Does it include the programming cable?

Yes, 10K NTC.
Programming cable is available separatelly.

Can we see what the 150A and 600A parts look like?

I like the hall effect current sensors.

600A (actually 750A) is achieved with the same 150A part, but with external current sensor and contactors.

Hi circuit.

I submitted an order for 150A BMS + USB + BT. Could I also have the temp sensor added to my order when the product is ready to ship?

Just updated your quotation. Should receive it by email.

Please change my order to a single 150A unit, usb cable only.
Also, please advise alternative payment method. Not gonna spend $30 on a wire.

[circuit]

Please change my order to a single 150A unit, usb cable only.
Also, please advise alternative payment method. Not gonna spend $30 on a wire.

Updated quotation sent.

[circuit]

Time is flying by. Today is the day, when BMS'es should have been shipped out.


As promised, we completed all testing on time. Started packing and are shipping these out today to those, who have already sent their payments.

There are few more BMS boards remaining, both 30A and 150A. Feel free to order them online: https://www.energusps.com/shop
Now we accept PayPal as well.

[Merlin]

wonder why no one ask about "why only 16s"
maybe i try to ask: a 18/20s BMS would be a burner

anyway, ill take one for my wifes bike.

[circuit]

I knew there will be questions, and added a disclaimer on first post Short answer is: >16s not available for now.

[Merlin]

read it....also your "building" topic.

beside that 48v is enough meaning, i was thinking last years, more voltage, less amps, less heat, less energy losses.
in the last 12month where the Big-Buddy-Steal Frames come popular (Qulbix,EEB,Stealth,Vector etc) they are anyway not legal
(so theres no need to be at a max of 60v)
...none of them are running 12s. sure. these are 8-10KW bikes.
If they have to go with 50v, they have to buy a better battery, bigger controller, bigger wires.......etc.....

iam not an electric engineer. iam just the guy who sells 4 times more 4 quality stuff and nice "helpfull gadgets" to see whats going on with my battery.

youre right. for the oem market you have no options above 60v.
But as you are long enough here, you know there are hundreds of "us"

Please build a >20cell BMS

How many Users do you need to buy a 20s BMS for a first batch / exploring market ;D




did i have to order on your website, or is a pm also ok?

[circuit]

If they have to go with 50v, they have to buy a better battery, bigger controller, bigger wires.......etc.....

Actually you would only need slightly thicker wires. Battery is the same (cells arranged differently), controller is the same (lower voltage mosfets hold more current). Also less issues picking DC/DC, charger etc.
The only thing why bike DIYers go for high voltage is slow motors. Somehow making it all non-standard, instead of rewinding or choosing other motor, seems easier way for many. But this has been discussed in depth already.

How many Users do you need to buy a 20s BMS for a first batch / exploring market ;D

1000 pcs could be a considerable starting point... Development of such product is quite expensive, too expensive to just explore the market, for small company anyway. We are keeping an eye on it, but there should be a real demand, that we don't expect from DIYers.

did i have to order on your website, or is a pm also ok?

Website would be much faster, as all order processing and accounting is done there anyway.

[Merlin]

thanks.

- what "box contents" are coming with your 150A bms?
connectors for the bms?

- i want to use Lipos with it. they have JST-XH connectors. can i order some from you?

- did i have to cover the bms to prevent shortings on the board? how can i cover it when this bms have to placed in a hardcase bag with lipos together?

[circuit]

It comes with JST PH connectors and wires for cells.
These items can (and some should) be ordered separately: temperature sensors, bluetooth, current sensor, USB cable.

For JST XH you would need an adapter (probably could be found pre-made).

Bottom side of 150A model has an aluminum plate, while top side should be covered. Use whatever is convenient and prevents things from shorting. Note that aluminum plate should be mounted on metal surface to reach full current handling specification.

[Merlin]

thanx again. i will solder some adapters.


- what maximum peak current did you suggest without air flowing and not mounted to metal?
- will heat shrink be ok to cover complete bms?
- i will go the bluetooth way. the app is in the playstore? did i had all features configurable in ths app?

[circuit]

I would say 40A average is a maximum for "150A" model without cooling. Heatshrink should be OK for that.
If you need more current, there are several options:
1. mount it on cool surface
2. add a heatsink
3. use external switch/contactor (it is supported)

App is under development still, but since the BMS supports protocol of Cycle Analyst v3, you can use one of several apps made by ES members:
1. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=45661
2. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 47#p895147
First one I have not tested
Second one works fine. But it is not public - you have to contact the author for invitation to download it from google play.

These apps are only for info display, as dashboard.
To configure and check all values, you will need a USB cable and do that on a Windows PC.

[madin88]

I would say 40A average is a maximum for "150A" model without cooling. Heatshrink should be OK for that.
If you need more current, there are several options:
1. mount it on cool surface
2. add a heatsink
3. use external switch/contactor (it is supported)

according to the pics, the BMS has the FET's on top side and the cooling plate is attached on bottom side (with a gap between).
i wonder if this is enough thermal flow?
about the FET's: what resistance value they have (or what type)?
3pcs on 30 and 100A board as well, right?

I'm interested because i'd like to use a programmable and reliable BMS for my 13s4p battery. the 30A version would be perfect.

[circuit]

Mosfet are these: PSMN3R3-80BS
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet ... 3-80BS.pdf

120A max, 3.5mΩ, 80V. Short peak up to 760A.

There are thermal vias under mosfet pads, and the gap between PCB and aluminum plate is filled with thick silicone pad.

Same mosfets and amount for 30A and 150A boards, only difference in current path is added cooling and current measurement (shunt vs. hall).