5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 27 2019 9:48am

Merlin wrote:
Sep 27 2019 6:17am
its not about watching cells while riding. its watching cells for maintenance...without checking cells you ride until "something" goes wrong and bms cuts off your ride
So basically you don't trust your build, which is understandable :)
this pic is from tiny bms and external display showing cells over BT. CA v3 protocol or not...its possible. :thumb:
TinyBMS supports serial communication using 3 protocols. Native, CA and CANBUS. Native and CANBUS have access to information on individual cells.

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2054
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Merlin » Sep 27 2019 10:06am

jesus :roll:

ya right its only about trusting what someone build. dying cells are related to the users build mh?....

looks like you missed the function of a bms or you are just a troll that has verbal diarrhea ...up2you what you choose.
Merlin wrote:
Sep 25 2019 6:07pm
yea those features would be nice "on top" but cell voltages to CHECK MY CELLS condition is priority no1 (for me) :P

i think i saw a guy on lmx forum who is/was smart enough to show cells over can communication...will try to find...
no app to check individuell cell voltages right now, so thx iam out :thumb:

Altair   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 329
Joined: May 03 2014 10:35am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Altair » Sep 27 2019 4:12pm

Indeed, it's very important to check your cells while you recharge. And of course not needed while you ride.
For me it's a PITA to check my cells because I have to open the battery box, slide the battery enough to be able to access the connector for the bluetooth module, unplug it, and plug in its place the USB adapter cable, to which I'll connect the laptop to finally see the cell voltages!
And do all this in reverse when the charging is done. :evil:

How difficult would have it been to add the cell voltages to the bluetooth data stream in the first place?

captain387   100 W

100 W
Posts: 183
Joined: Jul 21 2011 9:38pm
Location: Kingston, Ontario

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by captain387 » Sep 28 2019 7:48am

Well it look like the App has future plans to provide cell information...

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... keanalyzer
Cellmonitor.JPG
Cellmonitor.JPG (21.15 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
04 Norco Atomik - Cycle Analyst - Hs3540 - 40amp Infineon Controller- 12s2p 10 Ah Turnigy/Multistar Lipo

Altair   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 329
Joined: May 03 2014 10:35am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Altair » Sep 28 2019 8:27am

Yes but this was written when the app came out.
Since that time, nothing has been done.
Here is what the developper replied to me in May of this year:
"Thanks for your kind words re the app. Unfortunately I dont have time these days to really do any more development on it. I may get back to it in the future but I cant really give a definitive timeframe sorry."

Someone else should make a similar app, and add the missing features. I have a few suggestions on improvement... :wink:

User avatar
circuit   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mar 19 2009 11:43am
Location: EU
Contact:

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Sep 28 2019 8:59am

Hello everyone.
If you want to debug your battery pack, there's an "official" way.
BMS collects statistics and many limit values, including min cell voltage, max voltage, max current and max voltage difference between cells.
So, before testing, simply use windows app to clear statistics and have a ride. Come back and check your values. From those values you can calculate min and max internal resistance of your cells, see how much it sags, etc.
I know it's not the same as seing every cell's live data during your ride, but you really don't need to. Also it would be very unsafe, if done on road.

Another option would be to have a laptop in your backpack, connected via bluetooth or even USB. This way you can log every cell and have some nice graphs later.
Also, communication protocol is available to public, so you can have a raspberry or other weapon of choice to log it over UART (using bash script, etc).
smart and Tiny BMS solution
Visit my blog. Personal projects: Clean Peugeot conversion | Ultralight enduro
Any and all information, such as texts, specifications, drawings or other material that I post are to be used only as a reference for personal, non-commercial projects ONLY. Any republication for personal or commercial needs must be agreed on individually. Use of any information, that I post, for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5637
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Sep 28 2019 9:18am

A small microcontroller could log data to a memory card, be set to automatically collect them at all times, whenever the battery is being charged or discharged.

The card could then be periodically swapped out and plugged into software on a PC for review and analysis.

This logging function could easily be made part of the BMS design itself.

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 28 2019 11:34am

Merlin wrote:
Sep 27 2019 10:06am
jesus :roll:

ya right its only about trusting what someone build. dying cells are related to the users build mh?....

looks like you missed the function of a bms or you are just a troll that has verbal diarrhea ...up2you what you choose.
I think you missed the part where EVs use significantly larger packs than what people have on their bicycles, and none of them expose cell groups and BMS to the end user without consequences you expect. It is a product of quality of cells and quality of build of course, so perhaps people could learn a lesson or two from that.

P.S. My Zero DS is getting close to 6 years and 30,000 miles now. I have no idea what the BMS has to say about the cells in the 28s 11.4kW pack. I know I plug it in, it runs for X number of miles, and then I plug it in again. Yes, I must be a troll having expectations like that.

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 28 2019 11:43am

Altair wrote:
Sep 27 2019 4:12pm
How difficult would have it been to add the cell voltages to the bluetooth data stream in the first place?
There are multiple ways how this can be done (with or without the vendor's involvement), and none are difficult. Who do you expect to do it though ?

Altair   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 329
Joined: May 03 2014 10:35am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Altair » Sep 28 2019 9:24pm

Someone who has interest in improving an already great app, and who knows how to do the programming. Personally, I'm not at all qualified for this.
Do you know someone?
Do you want to try to convince the developper to get back to his app for a while?
Are there many people already using this app?

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 29 2019 12:18pm

I see. Well, like I said before, E-bike Analyzer is built around a protocol that is developed by another entity for a specific purpose. One would need to to completely rip out CA protocol from it, and replace it with either CANBUS or TinyBMS native protocol (the one used by Battery Insider application). That's not a crazy amount of work, but I don't see a point in it. Like circuit suggested, you could run Battery Insider on a laptop and peek into the BMS via Bluetooth or USB if you absolutely have to. Personally I think there is a more interesting fish to fry, such as support for certain commercial CANBUS dialects.

Altair   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 329
Joined: May 03 2014 10:35am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Altair » Sep 30 2019 7:28am

At the moment, TinyBMS doesn't have the capability to run BatteryInsider as an app on a smartphone via Bluetooth. If this was implemented, it would greatly simplify the access to battery data, anytime, anywhere, not to mention the easier programming of the BMS.
No need anymore to go physically inside the battery pack to unplug the Bluetooth module from the board, and plug the USB adapter cable in its place to be able to check values on my laptop.

Cricketo, I'm not advocating the complete modification of E-bikeAnalyzer to another communication protocol, I just want to have access to individual cell voltages with it. It already has everything else needed to be the perfect dashboard. It only needs that last feature to monitor cell voltages (during charging only).

User avatar
circuit   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mar 19 2009 11:43am
Location: EU
Contact:

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Sep 30 2019 7:34am

Note that bluetooth can also be used for PC connectivity. You just need to pair your devices (virtual com port will appear in device manager).
smart and Tiny BMS solution
Visit my blog. Personal projects: Clean Peugeot conversion | Ultralight enduro
Any and all information, such as texts, specifications, drawings or other material that I post are to be used only as a reference for personal, non-commercial projects ONLY. Any republication for personal or commercial needs must be agreed on individually. Use of any information, that I post, for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited.

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 30 2019 8:49am

circuit wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:34am
Note that bluetooth can also be used for PC connectivity. You just need to pair your devices (virtual com port will appear in device manager).
Yup. The only other thing, which is annoying, is having to run a VM with Windows just for Battery Insider :) Even a curses based Linux and OSX version would be more convenient.

User avatar
circuit   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mar 19 2009 11:43am
Location: EU
Contact:

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Sep 30 2019 8:56am

Well, people, who are using Linux as their daily driver, usually don't mind the pain, they enjoy it!
smart and Tiny BMS solution
Visit my blog. Personal projects: Clean Peugeot conversion | Ultralight enduro
Any and all information, such as texts, specifications, drawings or other material that I post are to be used only as a reference for personal, non-commercial projects ONLY. Any republication for personal or commercial needs must be agreed on individually. Use of any information, that I post, for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited.

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Sep 30 2019 6:10pm

circuit wrote:
Sep 30 2019 8:56am
Well, people, who are using Linux as their daily driver, usually don't mind the pain, they enjoy it!
Linux is free, Windows isn't.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5637
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Sep 30 2019 6:24pm

not free of that delicious pain though

The Mighty Volt   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2255
Joined: Oct 17 2009 9:35am
Location: Republic of Ireland.

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by The Mighty Volt » Oct 08 2019 9:05am

So, Uh, are these still for sale, or what? Thanks.

cricketo   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 23 2018 10:01pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Oct 09 2019 9:39am

The Mighty Volt wrote:
Oct 08 2019 9:05am
So, Uh, are these still for sale, or what? Thanks.
https://www.energusps.com/shop

The Mighty Volt   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2255
Joined: Oct 17 2009 9:35am
Location: Republic of Ireland.

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by The Mighty Volt » Oct 09 2019 6:36pm

cricketo wrote:
Oct 09 2019 9:39am
The Mighty Volt wrote:
Oct 08 2019 9:05am
So, Uh, are these still for sale, or what? Thanks.
https://www.energusps.com/shop
Thanks pal. :bigthumb:

hary   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Jun 08 2010 9:50am

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by hary » Dec 27 2019 10:43am

Hi

Would one of the TinyBMS give us some present feedback ?

Sepcially about comparing that TinyBMS with these Smart Chinese BMS from AliExpress ?

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2054
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Merlin » Dec 27 2019 11:50am

better go with the China BMS.

this 150A rating is only given when you stick it to a metal frame. Installed in a Frame anywhere without airflow its more an 40A continue BMS.

beside that. if something goes wrong you have no warranty in both cases. Shipping back and returning ends in the price of a new BMS.
i said no warranty because i had this problem and they said i did something wrong. but it was showing weird measurements from first second.
thats another story.

https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/

is your bms. installed plenty of them and they work flawless. no damaged since years.
LMXBikes.com using this also in their stock Batterys.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5637
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Dec 27 2019 8:00pm

Pretty sure that is not an appropriate post in an "Items for sale" thread.

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2054
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Merlin » Dec 27 2019 10:02pm

this thread is 9 sites long and he asked. this is my experience and my opinion.
a sales thread is not only for making money.

if you dont care about your "product/customers" you have to live with "comments" in a community.
if you are afraid of comments (no matter why) just dont try to sell in a community.

i know circuit is a busy man but all my contacts werent related with him. i bought 2 of them with every single option you can buy.
one runs without issue, 2nd didnt.
sending to "inspect" 15€
repairing, no warranty because i did something wrong on install. 90€

exaggerated shipping costs for a 500g package inside EU. (30€)

thats simply a rip off to customers. sry. iam pissed ....yes. but thats my experience "hary" asked about.

User avatar
circuit   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mar 19 2009 11:43am
Location: EU
Contact:

Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Dec 28 2019 6:07am

Merlin,

I don't know what went wrong in your particular case and really sorry to hear you had issues...
In case of warranty repair, we always do it free of charge, however I also need to point out that fail rates are very low on this BMS. It's a fairly complicated product and most returns are due to customer's mistake, like wrong connection, not following the manual... We all want stuff to be user-friendly and self-explanatory, however in this case a good study of the manual (76 pages!) is highly recommended. The most common mistake is connecting balance leads incorrectly or before BMS is powered. While BMS is designed to withstand a lot of abuse, in some cases this can lead to a fried frontend chip.
I understand shipping costs are high, and some time ago we were offering cheap airmail via post office, however there were all kinds of issues and it was just too slow. Now very few customers ask for cheaper method of delivery and we simply no longer offer it.

As for QC, you may find over 50 test points on the PCB... We have automated test jigs with spring-loaded needles and use these as one of checks during QC before shipping. Over 35 scripted checks are done automatically, including flashing of latest firmware. We also have a sophisticated ERP system for process control, so I can say confidently that none of units are shipped defective... I am really proud of this actually, as these jigs were a comparable project to BMS itself, complexity and investment-wise. When you think about it, it's not very easy to emulate various working parameters and checking every component on the board, for example if correct value capacitor is soldered in and if there are any micro-fractures in the resistors, etc. All of this is being tested automatically in our product.

All in all, this BMS requires some training and is meant to be used in OEM environment.. We have some very big names on our customer list (most of them behind NDA) and DIYers are a minority (and most costly to support per unit sold).
BTW, the Hacksmith have recently built a lightsaber with our BMS and battery modules:


Anyway I value any opinion, be it positive or negative. Negative ones are particularly valuable, as we can further improve the product and whole ecosystem, including shipping prices and our support. So feel free to share your experience.
smart and Tiny BMS solution
Visit my blog. Personal projects: Clean Peugeot conversion | Ultralight enduro
Any and all information, such as texts, specifications, drawings or other material that I post are to be used only as a reference for personal, non-commercial projects ONLY. Any republication for personal or commercial needs must be agreed on individually. Use of any information, that I post, for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited.

Post Reply