5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

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Post by Vortex99 » May 02 2016 10:39am

circuit wrote:Consider using one of these:
https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/ ... 0ah-10c-25
https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/ ... 6v-78ah-12

These offer a rapid construction of battery pack and include the most modern safety: fuses on each cell, vent channels, air channels for heating/cooling.
It's Very nice but very expensive.. :shock:

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by rolf_w » May 26 2016 1:36pm

circuit wrote:... We are still working hard on the manual and will let everyone know as soon as it is available
Any chance the manual is out in the coming weeks? r

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 26 2016 1:45pm

Hopefully... So much work lately, can't give any promises.

How's your project, were you able to hook it up?
By the way, new firmware and windows app, includes some nice improvements:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/682 ... .4.07e.exe
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/682 ... 14.bms.zip
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by rolf_w » May 26 2016 2:12pm

circuit wrote:...How's your project, were you able to hook it up?
thx for the new software - I'll install it asap. I see that you implemented some more item under "Peripherals". I am going to use some of these since I'll let the BMS switch of the charger and probably also the load (=pump) at the inverter's output ...

The project is in Sicily and I'll be there in July - so far the tests took place in my small lab in Switzerland on a simple test rig - I'm eager to soon do the tests on the real thing...
r

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 26 2016 2:39pm

Yes, more peripheral options were added, also speed input is now configurable and most common distance units are supported.
Some options don't work yet, but we are moving there... CAN charger for example. We have implemented ELTEK's FlatPack2 charger protocols and will offer CAN interface soon. Those chargers are the beasts! At least twice smaller, lighter and silent.

By the way, one of our clients is running a car (Smart ForTwo) with this BMS :shock: :D Of course with 750A current sensor...
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 26 2016 5:31pm

How does this bms behave when left on the shelf connected to a batterypack for a long enough time to drain the battery?

Does it drain all cells equally?
How much power does it consume when just laying there?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 27 2016 1:06am

It drains all cells equally.
When not in use, it switches to low power mode and consumes around 70μA. If the battery somehow gets drained to LVC, it switches to even lower consumption mode of ~20μA and can be woken up only by charger.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 27 2016 2:50am

circuit wrote:It drains all cells equally.
When not in use, it switches to low power mode and consumes around 70μA. If the battery somehow gets drained to LVC, it switches to even lower consumption mode of ~20μA and can be woken up only by charger.
Nice functionality, does it drain 70μA regardless of the number of cells connected? In other words the consumption increases linearly with the number of cells?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 27 2016 2:56am

Iq does not depend on overall voltage, as long as it is within specified operating limits.
We are working on firmware to further improve energy requirements.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 27 2016 7:36am

circuit wrote:Iq does not depend on overall voltage, as long as it is within specified operating limits.
We are working on firmware to further improve energy requirements.
Still dont get it 100%. You said it draws its power from all cells equally, and you gave the current 70microamps.
I wonder if the bms uses 70microamps at a specific voltage thats converted from the packvoltage, or if it actually draws 70 microamps from each parallell string?

So now that I know the bms drains all strings equally, what i am really after is the P rather than the I. In relation to the number of cells attached.
The reason for such specific questions is that I want to know what times I can expect a batterypack to sit safely on a shelf.
I am debating to buy one of these for my upcoming build, sure looks like a nice piece of electrical engineering.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 27 2016 9:47am

The BMS has both types of voltage regulators onboard: 3.3V linear regulator for idle running and low power mode (to retain memory and program state), and 5V buck converter for powering hall sensor, bluetooth and other external things.
Input current of linear regulator does not depend on input voltage.
When in "active" state, 5V DC/DC is used and it's current depends on input voltage - lower voltage equals higher current (constant power, roughly).

Both regulators run from B+ and B- inputs, meaning the current is drawn from whole pack. Cell wires are just for voltage sensing and balancing, basically floating around and drawing practically no current. Since current is the same in series string, each cell is drawn the same current.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 27 2016 4:23pm

circuit wrote:The BMS has both types of voltage regulators onboard: 3.3V linear regulator for idle running and low power mode (to retain memory and program state), and 5V buck converter for powering hall sensor, bluetooth and other external things.
Input current of linear regulator does not depend on input voltage.
When in "active" state, 5V DC/DC is used and it's current depends on input voltage - lower voltage equals higher current (constant power, roughly).

Both regulators run from B+ and B- inputs, meaning the current is drawn from whole pack. Cell wires are just for voltage sensing and balancing, basically floating around and drawing practically no current. Since current is the same in series string, each cell is drawn the same current.

So roughly how much does it draw in watts when it sits on a shelf? 5V * 70 microamps? Or 3.3V * 70microamps? + some minor conversion losses.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by parabellum » May 27 2016 5:03pm

Wheazel wrote: So roughly how much does it draw in watts when it sits on a shelf? 5V * 70 microamps? Or 3.3V * 70microamps? + some minor conversion losses.
In linear conversion, your pack sees 70 microamps beeng 5s or 16s, only difference is how much excess energy is turned to heat. Your formula would be pack capacity divided by 70 microamps for hours to drain your pack, voltage does not matter.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 30 2016 8:36am

parabellum wrote:
Wheazel wrote: So roughly how much does it draw in watts when it sits on a shelf? 5V * 70 microamps? Or 3.3V * 70microamps? + some minor conversion losses.
In linear conversion, your pack sees 70 microamps beeng 5s or 16s, only difference is how much excess energy is turned to heat. Your formula would be pack capacity divided by 70 microamps for hours to drain your pack, voltage does not matter.
Circuits statement taken in regard?
When in "active" state, 5V DC/DC is used and it's current depends on input voltage - lower voltage equals higher current (constant power, roughly).

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by parabellum » May 30 2016 9:55am

Wheazel wrote:So roughly how much does it draw in watts when it sits on a shelf?
Wheazel wrote:When in "active" state
Does it "sit on the shelf" in "active state"? :lol:

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by Wheazel » May 31 2016 2:45am

parabellum wrote:
Wheazel wrote:So roughly how much does it draw in watts when it sits on a shelf?
Wheazel wrote:When in "active" state
Does it "sit on the shelf" in "active state"? :lol:
Thats basically what I am asking, from the previous answers i couldnt judge if the active state was anything above when it sensed that that cells were low and went into some hibernation mode, OR if active state meant only when under load. Do you have this answer?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » May 31 2016 2:50am

"Active" state is only when:
a) there is current flowing
b) responding to communication
c) external "wakeup"/"ignition" signal is present (if feature enabled)
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/600A rated

Post by circuit » Oct 07 2016 2:37am

Some time has passed and we are still holding strong, selling out batch after batch. Since release, we have added some new products to the portfolio, like custom battery packs, Li-ion modules, rack-mountable batteries, etc. Also closely working with electric formula teams.
I want to thank you guys for support and feedback, it was of high value and helped us to further improve the product.

We have one more batch coming in ~4 weeks. So if anyone is looking for smart BMS or battery solutions, feel free to jump in.
https://www.energusps.com/shop
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Rube » Oct 07 2016 4:08am

Hi, great product that is market leading. I hope you get a bigger model out next year.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by MrDude_1 » Oct 10 2016 4:28pm

I think this is exactly the solution I am looking for.
I have an electric kart running a brushed motor. Its powered by 16s (66.2v peak) of Nissan Leaf lipo. I have 4 Leaf modules modified into 4s1p, with balance connectors that match my RC lipo. It has two large contactors, one is on the Positive side for power on, the other "Turbo" one bypasses the controller and connects the Negative side of the motor directly to the shunt for a boost of acceleration (or tire smoke). Everything goes through a negative side 300a 75mv shunt.
On acceleration it may draw up to 550 amps.

I looked at the 150A BMS and it mentions 750a peak capacity using contactors... but I cant find any information on how that is wired up.

Do you have a link to the info on how to wire up the 150A BMS for 750a use?
Will my lipo connectors connect right in? They match 4s Turnigy and other common 4s RC lipo.
Will my 300a 75mv shunt work for the controller? If not, what would be recommended?
What other external components would be needed for this? I assume diodes on the contactor coils, and a power-on switch... anything else?

I intend to charge 99% of the time at 20a, but occasionally at 35a. When I do it will be from empty to full at 1.1C. Can a small heatsink make this possible, or should I just stick to 20a?
Warning:This post is being read via light, a substance known to the state of California to cause cancer.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Oct 11 2016 12:44am

Hi,

Connection diagram is given on product page:
https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/ ... 0a-750a-36
Image

Basically you bypass the board and use it only for measurements and contactor control.
Charging up to 30A should be OK with 150A model, through mosfets. It already comes with aluminum heatsink, that should be enough in most cases.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Oct 11 2016 3:59am

More like 6 months :)
But still no.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by MrDude_1 » Oct 11 2016 7:22am

circuit wrote:Hi,

Connection diagram is given on product page:
https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/ ... 0a-750a-36
Image

Basically you bypass the board and use it only for measurements and contactor control.
Charging up to 30A should be OK with 150A model, through mosfets. It already comes with aluminum heatsink, that should be enough in most cases.
So heres something interesting. I cant see those pics on the page using my phone (android, Chrome browser), but I see them with the PC I am on right now. Thanks!
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