KMX Trike Front Suspension

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methods
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by methods » Mar 29, 2016 11:11 am

Thanks!

I am interested in this system.... Either way its rad. Just yesterday I was looking at my sad KMX trike.


-methods
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 29, 2016 11:16 am

methods wrote:Thanks!

I am interested in this system.... Either way its rad. Just yesterday I was looking at my sad KMX trike.


-methods
Why would it be sad? I am having a blast with mine on human power and no suspension... and I can't wait to install the motor on the trike... I went downhill 37 mph without pedaling the thing the slightest bit... it feels like a go-kart!!

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 29, 2016 11:17 am

Hey Adam,

I got my trike assembled and I am also interested on the suspension but if I wanted to put fenders on the trike how would you go about that?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by steveo » Mar 29, 2016 11:34 am

methods wrote:Thanks!

I am interested in this system.... Either way its rad. Just yesterday I was looking at my sad KMX trike.


-methods

mine is sitting in its home atm.. aka the shed..in the corner .. looking abandoned.. no controller..

but i hope this year that it will get the power she deserves.. sevcon gen 4 size 4

I have my fingers crossed that the firmware Arlo posted will allow me to run the x602 hub motor

here's a oldie with the highly modded good old infinion 24 fet pushing peaks of close to 20kw

links in another post below

Love the suspension Kit, looks Awsome!


-steveo
Last edited by steveo on Mar 29, 2016 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by farmerjoe99 » Mar 29, 2016 11:35 am

gman1971 wrote:
methods wrote:Thanks!

I am interested in this system.... Either way its rad. Just yesterday I was looking at my sad KMX trike.


-methods
Why would it be sad? I am having a blast with mine on human power and no suspension... and I can't wait to install the motor on the trike... I went downhill 37 mph without pedaling the thing the slightest bit... it feels like a go-kart!!

G.
its that western dialect:
Definition of Rad:
An abbreviation of 'radical'--a term made popular by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Still primarily used by people on the West Coast who find words like 'cool', 'awesome',
and 'tight' to be tired and overused; 'rad' is generally considered to be a much higher praise
than the aforementioned superlatives. Also used as a general expression of awe.
And I have to agree that's one awesome setup he's made!

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by methods » Mar 29, 2016 11:47 am

Yep - the trike is sad because it is sitting half baked in a pile of other bikes.
It would be happy if my ass was on it going 35mph

Steveo - broken link

Rad
Sick
Wicked
Dope
Gangster
hardcore
the shizzle
bad ass
duuuuuuude
wtf?
omfg I wanna ride that
wha?


-methods
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by steveo » Mar 29, 2016 11:55 am

methods wrote:Yep - the trike is sad because it is sitting half baked in a pile of other bikes.
It would be happy if my ass was on it going 35mph

Steveo - broken link

Rad
Sick
Wicked
Dope
Gangster
hardcore
the shizzle
bad ass
duuuuuuude
wtf?
omfg I wanna ride that
wha?


-methods
kmx - https://youtu.be/eF2L_4tRtDA

latest ebike build - https://youtu.be/LXpgRH35bg8

-steveo
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 29, 2016 12:31 pm

I mean sad KMX trike, the word rad I understand... my English is not that bad :D

G.
farmerjoe99 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
methods wrote:Thanks!

I am interested in this system.... Either way its rad. Just yesterday I was looking at my sad KMX trike.


-methods
Why would it be sad? I am having a blast with mine on human power and no suspension... and I can't wait to install the motor on the trike... I went downhill 37 mph without pedaling the thing the slightest bit... it feels like a go-kart!!

G.
its that western dialect:
Definition of Rad:
An abbreviation of 'radical'--a term made popular by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Still primarily used by people on the West Coast who find words like 'cool', 'awesome',
and 'tight' to be tired and overused; 'rad' is generally considered to be a much higher praise
than the aforementioned superlatives. Also used as a general expression of awe.
And I have to agree that's one awesome setup he's made!
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 29, 2016 12:33 pm

I see why you said sad now... am enjoying the trike even without power and with 30 lbs worth of extra (for now useless) batteries... the weight really made it super stable and a very nice ride, even around bumps. :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 29, 2016 12:44 pm

Hey Steve

Was the trike on the video yours? That looks like a lot of fun. In one of the comments in the video it was said that the batteries on the front made a difference in handling? What do you mean by that? I was testing mine (granted no motor power, but I can get mine up to 30mph on leg power alone) and the batteries underneath the seat did indeed made it a lot harder to flip and a lot better on the turns... perhaps that gigantic 25 lbs motor on the rear wheel isn't helping?
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Mar 29, 2016 7:58 pm

methods wrote:Right... I have read a lot of Chinese descriptions :mrgreen:

What I am asking is if there is gas in that shock or if the dampening system is only a spring.
I know it sounds like an obvious question... but I am a guy who gets surprised a lot.

thanks,
-methods
It look like your intuition was good Methods,

I disassembled the shock and this is not a gas cylinder. It only guide the movement :(

From what I saw, it is possible to install an air shock instead, but those start at 60$ each and can go up to 300$ each ( anything with a 125mm ( 5 inches ) axle to axle could be fit on this suspension )

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Mar 29, 2016 8:22 pm

gman1971 wrote:Hey Adam,

I got my trike assembled and I am also interested on the suspension but if I wanted to put fenders on the trike how would you go about that?

G.
Hi Gman1971,

This is a good news. :)

About the fenders, I initially bought the kit that was available for KMX but I was really disappointed...
While designing the suspension, I made a provision to easily fit a carbon fiber fender ( designed, but not yet produced )
Basically, the 4 bottom screw 10-32 on the picture below are a placeholder to mount the "soon to come fender"
Image

Here, you can see what I have in mind for the carbon fiber fenders:
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by adam333 on Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 30, 2016 2:52 am

Sweet!!

BTW, I also purchased some KMX fenders, but I purchased the premium ones for 20" fronts and 26" rear and they are fairly nice... all shiny and the mounting solution is fairly flexible.

How long before and much are you looking to charge for those fenders? If I am going to go the suspension route I'll definitively want fenders to go along... and those fenders look fairly nice... but you don't need to make them out of CF, maybe some china plastic will do?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Mar 30, 2016 12:20 pm

I will work on this during the summer, but it could take a few months.

If I can make a vacuum mold, a set of fender in plastic should be fairly cheap. anywhere between 40 and 80$ for a set. it will depend on the time required for the post processing after the vacuum operation.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 30, 2016 1:44 pm

adam333 wrote:I will work on this during the summer, but it could take a few months.

If I can make a vacuum mold, a set of fender in plastic should be fairly cheap. anywhere between 40 and 80$ for a set. it will depend on the time required for the post processing after the vacuum operation.
Perfect... and black shiny plastic is fine by me :)... I am not planning on breaking any human power speed record on my 90+ lbs KMX "leadsled" trike so plastic should work.

BTW, how do you like the suspension so far? Anything worth sharing about experience?

I am currently working on my trike inside my home so to do so I have to get it and out of the house through regular doors; and its a perfect fit right now, but I assume with the suspension it won't fit through most doors anymore, right?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Mar 30, 2016 8:49 pm

The road are so bad here... the suspension was a necessity for me. It is now much more enjoyable to ride around with the trike. I only need to avoid potholes on the rear wheel now instead of all 3 :)

I would say it is a 66% improvement. ( the last 33 % would come from a rear suspension )

My trike was not passing thru the door with the stock frame so repairs and improvement are done during winter to minimize the wheels disassembling. But ya, with the suspension, your bike width will increase by 5.75 inches total.

With the increased clearance though, it is now possible to install 4" fat tire on the trike:
Image

More details here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... d#p1169559

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Mar 30, 2016 9:17 pm

sweet looking trike dude!!... I am glad I ended up getting the frame kit which came with a black frame as well... I'll post pics of the finished product once its done

Roads here aren't too bad, although some patches are pretty rough; but my trike will be about 90 lbs when its done and right now is pretty sweet to ride around on human power up to 20 mph. I also think that having a heavy 30 lbs hub motor on the rear wheel compounds to the problem of harsher ride since thats a lot of weight that bounces up and down.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 24, 2016 1:43 am

Well, it finally happen. I took the plunge and got the suspension:

There is only one word to describe this upgrade: A-FROCKING-MAZING... you just can't even begin to imagine the difference it made on my 65 mph eTrike. If you have a KMX trike, get this.

I got this kit today, packaging was excellent, everything packaged with bubble wrap, he even included threadlocker loctite... great touch. All hardware included, except wrenches. You need to use SAE wrenches, no metric here... so I had to go find those in my basement but other than that it only took roughly ~4 hours to get it installed. The only thing to watch out for me was the right steering knuckle brake assembly had to be grind down around the edges for the main suspension support to clear. Other than that it was a fairly straightforward installation. I had to realign the calipers and wheels after installing the suspension, but now everything lines up even better than it did with the tortured stock steering knuckles after 1700 miles at ~30+ mph on bumpy roads. The trike has quieted down too.

I can confirm the "shocks" are just guides, there are no fluids or dampening inside them... BUT.. but make no mistake, the difference using this suspension is NIGHT and DAY vs my other non-suspended KMX eTrike. It might be a little better with air shocks, but going from non-suspended to this is like going from 0% to 90% there, maybe the air shocks are that extra 10% who knows... but point is this suspension upgrade is a must if you're serious about riding at high speeds.

Weight, it didn't matter to me, I have 6 kW on tap, so two extra lbs on a 100 lbs tank wasn't going to make much of a difference, now it made a difference where it mattered, where my teeth don't rattle going over road expansion joints... thunk thunk thunk... bye bye garbage roads... fix the dang roads...

Okay, ranting aside: The handling has also improved, and considerably as well; as the trike doesn't feel as twitchy at high speed nor when taking tight turns; in fact, it loves taking turns even more now than it did before. And b/c its so wide now its probably impossible to flip it (or even put on two wheels) but this might not apply to everyone, as my trike is a mid-drive with the motor under the front BB and most of the weight already resting over the two front wheels.

As a custom modification I made my own KMX premium fender plate support. I just don't like riding around without fenders and this was a must have for me. Kindly enough the suspension knuckles have 4 screws to install a fender and I used those to get my KMX fenders retrofitted onto the suspension.

Adam stated that this was a 66% improvement in ride... well, I think he is selling himself short there: For me this was more an 80-90% ride improvement under all conditions, and based on his comments I was concerned that not having rear suspension would still be a problem, but it wasn't; and maybe it is b/c there is little weight over the rear wheel on my trike, no weight to bounce all over the place; I don't know, but what I do know is that I love this kit and I will be getting a 2nd kit for my other KMX Cyclone eTrike very soon...

Oh, I will probably be looking into trying one of these air shocks; who knows, it might get some extra improvements... but the truth is that this suspension rides exceptionally well as it is, so maybe after I get the 2nd trike suspended I'll give a shot to those air shocks... we'll see.

As for aesthetics, well, one can argue trikes look ugly blah blah, that's fine; but to me the trike now looks more like a race car than a pedal trike... in short: it looks BAD ASS, wide and mean. I'll post some pictures of the trike tomorrow.

Great upgrade, thanks Adam!

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 24, 2016 8:38 am

Thanks for the kind words Gman :D

Can't wait to see the pictures.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 24, 2016 5:25 pm

Pictures:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

(*) Sorry if its not as clean as the brand new pictures... but this guy has already clocked a few thousand miles...

Enjoy.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by tomjasz » Jul 25, 2016 2:19 pm

Nice rides! Nice builds! Thanks for the share!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by Chalo » Jul 25, 2016 2:45 pm

How is the bump steer now? That's a big offset of the contact patch relative to the steering knuckle.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Chalo wrote:How is the bump steer now? That's a big offset of the contact patch relative to the steering knuckle.
Well, it really doesn't feel much different in terms of bump steering as it did before; its always had bump steering before the suspension went in so I don't really know any different after riding this trike for 1700 miles. What is clear is that its a tad harder to steer when fully stopped, but then the difference in ride comfort is night and day.

I just purchased an adjustable air shock to replace one of the springs and will see how much it changes the feeling. I suspect is going to be a little better, but I don't know how much that will be.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 25, 2016 4:42 pm

tomjasz wrote:Nice rides! Nice builds! Thanks for the share!
Thanks Tom, how is it going? When do we start building yours? :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Chalo
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by Chalo » Jul 25, 2016 5:26 pm

gman1971 wrote:
Chalo wrote:How is the bump steer now? That's a big offset of the contact patch relative to the steering knuckle.
Well, it really doesn't feel much different in terms of bump steering as it did before; its always had bump steering before the suspension went in so I don't really know any different after riding this trike for 1700 miles.
That's reassuring. I reckoned that the longer the lever arm to bump steer with, the more pronounced the effect would be.

I also wonder (because the suspension is fully independent with no anti-sway) whether the trike rolls noticeably more to the outside when turning.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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