KMX Trike Front Suspension

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 15, 2017 3:41 am

tomjasz wrote:G.

You're alive! And well?

T.
Yes, between work and the fact we just moved into a new house I was just super busy for the past few months... glad to see you're also doing well my friend! :) How are things going?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 15, 2017 9:48 am

gman1971 wrote:Just to showcase how great Adam's suspension is, here are both of my trikes "racing" around the subdivision's backroad loop... A-2 only has 3kW power, and it isn't equipped with Adam's suspension like A-1 does, which also runs 6.5 kW too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdeZMU ... e=youtu.be

At each of those straightaways A-1 trike is doing ~35 mph, and you can hear the brake slamming and how hard its cornering, almost to the point of losing traction... btw, my son is at the wheel... :)

Enjoy.

G.
Thanks for sharing the video. I see that your second faring is a lot cleaner aerodynamically than the first. Do you have any closeup pics of the area around the brakes/suspension? I'm curious to see how you managed to clean the airflow in that area without causing clearance issues between the wheels/body/brakes/steering while cornering, as from what I can tell on my as of yet unposted drawings, the suspension/brakes/exposed wheels will easily be my greatest remaining source of unaddressed drag when I have the full body mounted. While I do plan to make disk wheel covers that attach to the spokes, that will leave a lot unaddressed. If I could clean that up, it would greatly reduce drag further.

I am currently shooting for a 0.15-0.17 m^2 CdA without the drag in those areas addressed, just an enclosed body shell with a top to cover my head along with a turtledeck shaped to aid streamlining, but with the wheels/suspension/brakes still exposed. Assuming I get my drag that low once this body is on it, if I could cut that by 1/3 or more, that might put my drag competitive with commercial velos like the Quest. My drawings done to scale estimate my trike getting a 0.60 m^2 frontal area, but I have no idea what the drag coefficient will actually be until I can test it without it wobbling around. I'm shooting for a 0.25-0.28 Cd, which is still possible with an open wheel design given what the 1921 Rumpler Tropfenwagen and various salt flats lakesters have achieved, along with the fact that I will lose an entire set of exposed axle and wheel pair versus them.

I loved watching the A1 fly through the straightaway. Its acceleration is certainly faster than a number of automobiles on the road, another performance benchmark that I am aiming for once I motorize my project. I'm glad that adam's suspension can handle the conditions that you have exposed it to.

I'm enjoying the hell out of mine, even though I'm currently averaging 15 mph or so Flintstoning it with no faring. I took it for a 10 mile ride yesterday after work. I started mashing the pedals as hard as I could into a stiff headwind on Up Rover Rd near some refineries, and when I got up to about 23 mph, I realized that I was about to hit an unseen pothole with insufficient time to correct. The right front wheel took it without issue. The suspension immediately dampened the impact and I barely felt it. I didn't feel at all as if I was going to be knocked off of the trike from the impulse.

Before I installed it, I was afraid to ride this thing over 20 mph. I went airborne a few times from riding it too hard. The roads where I am at are poorly maintained, and this suspension has done wonders to increase the usability of it. Without it, a body faring or motor would be useless for my application. I wish adam's suspension was on the market in early 2015, before I snagged that junker Thunderbolt trike and restored it, because I'd have spent the extra cash and gotten a KMX instead.

At least I have one now, and I have no regrets with both purchases of the KMX or the suspension.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by wrkgstiff » Jul 15, 2017 4:46 pm

Hey guys,

Just took my first ride with the new air suspension kit. Wow, what a difference! I don't have any motors except for me, so this isn't exactly the right forum for my comments, but the suspension is the common denominator.

Installation:
This was about as easy as a kit can get. Remove the wheel. Remove the brake. Install the suspension unit. Reinstall the wheel. Adjust the brake. The whole process took me an hour and a half. Most of the time was adjusting the brake. The Avid BB7s had to be adjusted as far away from the rotor as possible, but they fit. No issues. There is a clearance issue on the right side that Adam mentions in the very detailed and understandable instructions. Used a file and notched the brake mount on the original spindle. Easy. Kudos Adam. Excellent DFX. Design for performance, design for durability, design for assembly. Excellent!

Comfort:
The reduction in road chatter is very nice. Most of the big hits are softened quite a bit. Hits to the rear wheel still are jarring, but I have a 26" rear, so the hits aren't as bad as a 20" rear wheel. The big hits on the front are handled well. Still feel them but they aren't jarring. I purposefully hit some big potholes, just to see how the suspension would handle the hit. I felt it, but nothing like without suspension.

Stability:
Here is where this unit shines. There's still some bump steer, but it's nothing like without it. Being wider, the stance is more stable, but turns don't require as much english with my body to stay upright. Also, the suspension movement makes loose gravel much more stable. There's a fast downhill with REALLY loose sand and gravel. The unsuspended trike would still feel really squirrely, but the suspension makes it much more controllable. I feel a little faster, just because I'm more in control of the trike. It's a NOTICEABLE difference.

The pictures are small due to the forum limitations. I'll try to post a link to an online area for the other pictures. If anyone would like different pictures, let me know and I'll post what I can.

Thanks again Adam, well done!
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KMX_rtside_1.jpg
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 15, 2017 8:38 pm

gman1971 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdeZMU ... e=youtu.be

At each of those straightaways A-1 trike is doing ~35 mph, and you can hear the brake slamming and how hard its cornering, almost to the point of losing traction... btw, my son is at the wheel... :)

G.
hehe, your son sure look like he's in control :D

In a few years, my daughter will be old enough to ask me to ride the trike as well.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 15, 2017 8:47 pm

wrkgstiff wrote:
Installation:
This was about as easy as a kit can get. Remove the wheel. Remove the brake. Install the suspension unit. Reinstall the wheel. Adjust the brake. The whole process took me an hour and a half.
Thanks for the positive feedback wrkgstiff.

I 'm happy to see you enjoy the suspension.

This is probably one of the fastest installation I saw. I shipped the kit 5 days ago and you already have test drive on it :D

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 16, 2017 2:45 am

Nice... but oh so weird seeing a trike without any body panels... :)
wrkgstiff wrote:Hey guys,

Just took my first ride with the new air suspension kit. Wow, what a difference! I don't have any motors except for me, so this isn't exactly the right forum for my comments, but the suspension is the common denominator.

Installation:
This was about as easy as a kit can get. Remove the wheel. Remove the brake. Install the suspension unit. Reinstall the wheel. Adjust the brake. The whole process took me an hour and a half. Most of the time was adjusting the brake. The Avid BB7s had to be adjusted as far away from the rotor as possible, but they fit. No issues. There is a clearance issue on the right side that Adam mentions in the very detailed and understandable instructions. Used a file and notched the brake mount on the original spindle. Easy. Kudos Adam. Excellent DFX. Design for performance, design for durability, design for assembly. Excellent!

Comfort:
The reduction in road chatter is very nice. Most of the big hits are softened quite a bit. Hits to the rear wheel still are jarring, but I have a 26" rear, so the hits aren't as bad as a 20" rear wheel. The big hits on the front are handled well. Still feel them but they aren't jarring. I purposefully hit some big potholes, just to see how the suspension would handle the hit. I felt it, but nothing like without suspension.

Stability:
Here is where this unit shines. There's still some bump steer, but it's nothing like without it. Being wider, the stance is more stable, but turns don't require as much english with my body to stay upright. Also, the suspension movement makes loose gravel much more stable. There's a fast downhill with REALLY loose sand and gravel. The unsuspended trike would still feel really squirrely, but the suspension makes it much more controllable. I feel a little faster, just because I'm more in control of the trike. It's a NOTICEABLE difference.

The pictures are small due to the forum limitations. I'll try to post a link to an online area for the other pictures. If anyone would like different pictures, let me know and I'll post what I can.

Thanks again Adam, well done!
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am

It might look cleaner but its just an evolution of the fairing I've working since I started working on the trike with some lessons learned during this winter, and I am now getting good enough at building complex body panels to do it how I originally wanted.

G.
The Toecutter wrote:
gman1971 wrote:Just to showcase how great Adam's suspension is, here are both of my trikes "racing" around the subdivision's backroad loop... A-2 only has 3kW power, and it isn't equipped with Adam's suspension like A-1 does, which also runs 6.5 kW too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdeZMU ... e=youtu.be

At each of those straightaways A-1 trike is doing ~35 mph, and you can hear the brake slamming and how hard its cornering, almost to the point of losing traction... btw, my son is at the wheel... :)

Enjoy.

G.
Thanks for sharing the video. I see that your second faring is a lot cleaner aerodynamically than the first. Do you have any closeup pics of the area around the brakes/suspension? I'm curious to see how you managed to clean the airflow in that area without causing clearance issues between the wheels/body/brakes/steering while cornering, as from what I can tell on my as of yet unposted drawings, the suspension/brakes/exposed wheels will easily be my greatest remaining source of unaddressed drag when I have the full body mounted. While I do plan to make disk wheel covers that attach to the spokes, that will leave a lot unaddressed. If I could clean that up, it would greatly reduce drag further.

I am currently shooting for a 0.15-0.17 m^2 CdA without the drag in those areas addressed, just an enclosed body shell with a top to cover my head along with a turtledeck shaped to aid streamlining, but with the wheels/suspension/brakes still exposed. Assuming I get my drag that low once this body is on it, if I could cut that by 1/3 or more, that might put my drag competitive with commercial velos like the Quest. My drawings done to scale estimate my trike getting a 0.60 m^2 frontal area, but I have no idea what the drag coefficient will actually be until I can test it without it wobbling around. I'm shooting for a 0.25-0.28 Cd, which is still possible with an open wheel design given what the 1921 Rumpler Tropfenwagen and various salt flats lakesters have achieved, along with the fact that I will lose an entire set of exposed axle and wheel pair versus them.

I loved watching the A1 fly through the straightaway. Its acceleration is certainly faster than a number of automobiles on the road, another performance benchmark that I am aiming for once I motorize my project. I'm glad that adam's suspension can handle the conditions that you have exposed it to.

I'm enjoying the hell out of mine, even though I'm currently averaging 15 mph or so Flintstoning it with no faring. I took it for a 10 mile ride yesterday after work. I started mashing the pedals as hard as I could into a stiff headwind on Up Rover Rd near some refineries, and when I got up to about 23 mph, I realized that I was about to hit an unseen pothole with insufficient time to correct. The right front wheel took it without issue. The suspension immediately dampened the impact and I barely felt it. I didn't feel at all as if I was going to be knocked off of the trike from the impulse.

Before I installed it, I was afraid to ride this thing over 20 mph. I went airborne a few times from riding it too hard. The roads where I am at are poorly maintained, and this suspension has done wonders to increase the usability of it. Without it, a body faring or motor would be useless for my application. I wish adam's suspension was on the market in early 2015, before I snagged that junker Thunderbolt trike and restored it, because I'd have spent the extra cash and gotten a KMX instead.

At least I have one now, and I have no regrets with both purchases of the KMX or the suspension.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by wrkgstiff » Jul 16, 2017 6:38 am

LOL, gman, nothing will make this trike go any faster hauling this heavy carcass around :lol:

I will say riding in winter is a bit chilly here in Wisconsin. I've considered a small front fairing but that's it as far as fairing goes.
gman1971 wrote:Nice... but oh so weird seeing a trike without any body panels... :)
wrkgstiff wrote:Hey guys,

Just took my first ride with the new air suspension kit. Wow, what a difference! I don't have any motors except for me, so this isn't exactly the right forum for my comments, but the suspension is the common denominator.

Installation:
This was about as easy as a kit can get. Remove the wheel. Remove the brake. Install the suspension unit. Reinstall the wheel. Adjust the brake. The whole process took me an hour and a half. Most of the time was adjusting the brake. The Avid BB7s had to be adjusted as far away from the rotor as possible, but they fit. No issues. There is a clearance issue on the right side that Adam mentions in the very detailed and understandable instructions. Used a file and notched the brake mount on the original spindle. Easy. Kudos Adam. Excellent DFX. Design for performance, design for durability, design for assembly. Excellent!

Comfort:
The reduction in road chatter is very nice. Most of the big hits are softened quite a bit. Hits to the rear wheel still are jarring, but I have a 26" rear, so the hits aren't as bad as a 20" rear wheel. The big hits on the front are handled well. Still feel them but they aren't jarring. I purposefully hit some big potholes, just to see how the suspension would handle the hit. I felt it, but nothing like without suspension.

Stability:
Here is where this unit shines. There's still some bump steer, but it's nothing like without it. Being wider, the stance is more stable, but turns don't require as much english with my body to stay upright. Also, the suspension movement makes loose gravel much more stable. There's a fast downhill with REALLY loose sand and gravel. The unsuspended trike would still feel really squirrely, but the suspension makes it much more controllable. I feel a little faster, just because I'm more in control of the trike. It's a NOTICEABLE difference.

The pictures are small due to the forum limitations. I'll try to post a link to an online area for the other pictures. If anyone would like different pictures, let me know and I'll post what I can.

Thanks again Adam, well done!

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 16, 2017 5:51 pm

I hear... Wisconsin... where!! :) any chance close by to Madison?

Lol, heavy carcass hahaha, make it two but the panels did really help make it go faster :)

G.
wrkgstiff wrote:LOL, gman, nothing will make this trike go any faster hauling this heavy carcass around :lol:

I will say riding in winter is a bit chilly here in Wisconsin. I've considered a small front fairing but that's it as far as fairing goes.
gman1971 wrote:Nice... but oh so weird seeing a trike without any body panels... :)
wrkgstiff wrote:Hey guys,

Just took my first ride with the new air suspension kit. Wow, what a difference! I don't have any motors except for me, so this isn't exactly the right forum for my comments, but the suspension is the common denominator.

Installation:
This was about as easy as a kit can get. Remove the wheel. Remove the brake. Install the suspension unit. Reinstall the wheel. Adjust the brake. The whole process took me an hour and a half. Most of the time was adjusting the brake. The Avid BB7s had to be adjusted as far away from the rotor as possible, but they fit. No issues. There is a clearance issue on the right side that Adam mentions in the very detailed and understandable instructions. Used a file and notched the brake mount on the original spindle. Easy. Kudos Adam. Excellent DFX. Design for performance, design for durability, design for assembly. Excellent!

Comfort:
The reduction in road chatter is very nice. Most of the big hits are softened quite a bit. Hits to the rear wheel still are jarring, but I have a 26" rear, so the hits aren't as bad as a 20" rear wheel. The big hits on the front are handled well. Still feel them but they aren't jarring. I purposefully hit some big potholes, just to see how the suspension would handle the hit. I felt it, but nothing like without suspension.

Stability:
Here is where this unit shines. There's still some bump steer, but it's nothing like without it. Being wider, the stance is more stable, but turns don't require as much english with my body to stay upright. Also, the suspension movement makes loose gravel much more stable. There's a fast downhill with REALLY loose sand and gravel. The unsuspended trike would still feel really squirrely, but the suspension makes it much more controllable. I feel a little faster, just because I'm more in control of the trike. It's a NOTICEABLE difference.

The pictures are small due to the forum limitations. I'll try to post a link to an online area for the other pictures. If anyone would like different pictures, let me know and I'll post what I can.

Thanks again Adam, well done!
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 16, 2017 10:29 pm

I like how I can pedal with as much force as I can muster, and the suspension doesn't shake the frame up and down. I've broken 6sp chains on other bikes I've owned before from excessive force(and a bit of poor maintenance), so I know that it will probably be stable for the vast majority of the population in a human power(whether exclusive or electric-assisted) application.

I added some coroplast wheel disc covers yesterday and today(which did noticeably improve riding efficiency, but only by a little) and was riding at 27 mph with a slight tailwind on the flat for a small percentage of a 17 mile ride I did, putting out a tremendous amount of effort and cadence to do so, and the trike was extremely stable. I felt safe riding it this way, even though the road wasn't smooth and flawless. Before I installed it, 20 mph even on seemingly smooth roads was sometimes perilous. The slightest little bumps were extremely jarring. Now going over bumps at speed, it feels little different from an older model sports car or cheap truck in terms of ride comfort. For a non-car vehicle, this is well above and beyond what I'd consider "acceptable".

It is a really well-designed kit. Anyone here who has a KMX, I would hazard a guess that none of those who put their hard earned money forth to purchase this kit will regret it for any reasons pertaining to it alone. It's that good.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 17, 2017 1:00 am

The Toecutter wrote:I like how I can pedal with as much force as I can muster, and the suspension doesn't shake the frame up and down. I've broken 6sp chains on other bikes I've owned before from excessive force(and a bit of poor maintenance), so I know that it will probably be stable for the vast majority of the population in a human power(whether exclusive or electric-assisted) application.

I added some coroplast wheel disc covers yesterday and today(which did noticeably improve riding efficiency, but only by a little) and was riding at 27 mph with a slight tailwind on the flat for a small percentage of a 17 mile ride I did, putting out a tremendous amount of effort and cadence to do so, and the trike was extremely stable. I felt safe riding it this way, even though the road wasn't smooth and flawless. Before I installed it, 20 mph even on seemingly smooth roads was sometimes perilous. The slightest little bumps were extremely jarring. Now going over bumps at speed, it feels little different from an older model sports car or cheap truck in terms of ride comfort. For a non-car vehicle, this is well above and beyond what I'd consider "acceptable".

It is a really well-designed kit. Anyone here who has a KMX, I would hazard a guess that none of those who put their hard earned money forth to purchase this kit will regret it for any reasons pertaining to it alone. It's that good.
I agree, I can't wait to see your trike man, need to see pictures :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 17, 2017 9:40 am

The Toecutter wrote: It is a really well-designed kit. Anyone here who has a KMX, I would hazard a guess that none of those who put their hard earned money forth to purchase this kit will regret it for any reasons pertaining to it alone. It's that good.
Thanks for the kind words.

Agreed with Gman, we need updated high res pictures. :D

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 20, 2017 8:10 pm

I don't have a high-res camera and am generally averse to spending my money on things I don't "need" and judge my current camera acceptable.

Anyhow, this is my trike in its current form. I have a lot of custom body pieces I will add when I get some mounts made.

Adam333, I look forward to you selling me those carbon fiber wheel fenders you designed. THOSE would seriously cut drag once I have a body on it, since the exposed wheels will likely be one of the largest sources of drag unaddressed at that point.
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 21, 2017 12:23 am

The Toecutter wrote: Adam333, I look forward to you selling me those carbon fiber wheel fenders you designed. THOSE would seriously cut drag once I have a body on it, since the exposed wheels will likely be one of the largest sources of drag unaddressed at that point.
Thanks for the updated picture, can't wait to see the fairing installed on it :)

As for the the fenders, I doubt it will increase the efficiency. it's like adding two small parachute each side. I will have to test it when I have a prototype ready.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 21, 2017 3:48 am

adam333 wrote:As for the the fenders, I doubt it will increase the efficiency. it's like adding two small parachute each side. I will have to test it when I have a prototype ready.
Well, there truly is only one way to find out. I could see the parachute effect potentially being a problem if you leave the wheel spokes exposed, but what happens if the air is(for the most part) prevented from flowing into the wheel well through a disc cover? My suspicion is that drag will go down if the flow of air is kept from entering the wheel well. It will be an interesting test, to be sure.

Even if it doesn't help to reduce drag, it would certainly be nice to have for operating the trike during wet conditions.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 21, 2017 4:14 am

I got rid of the fenders b/c they broke during frozen winter and crap roads... the vibration was too much for them. Also, after installing the side panels on the trike I don't really need them anymore so that is less things on the way...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 22, 2017 12:52 am

Where I'm at, it might only snow or freeze once every decade. I suspect that the ABS plastic you used just wasn't up to the task and that carbon fiber might handle the more extreme conditions. Adam is from Canada, after all, and I doubt he'd sell them if they couldn't handle the condition's he's exposing them to.

My coroplast pieces are probably more delicate than yours. They'll do, for now, until I get a chance to make a second body out of fiberglass again, and on that one, I look forward to streamlining it to an extreme, the LeMans velomobile and Milan SL velomobile both serving as inspiration.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 22, 2017 3:36 am

The Toecutter wrote:Where I'm at, it might only snow or freeze once every decade. I suspect that the ABS plastic you used just wasn't up to the task and that carbon fiber might handle the more extreme conditions. Adam is from Canada, after all, and I doubt he'd sell them if they couldn't handle the condition's he's exposing them to.

My coroplast pieces are probably more delicate than yours. They'll do, for now, until I get a chance to make a second body out of fiberglass again, and on that one, I look forward to streamlining it to an extreme, the LeMans velomobile and Milan SL velomobile both serving as inspiration.
The fenders I had were purchased, I didn't build them, none of the body panels I've built have cracked or broken in frozen cold temps... just the plastic used on those KMX fenders wasn't up to the task of -20F...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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The Toecutter
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 22, 2017 10:23 am

It looks to me as if adam333 has a new market niche to fulfill and make some more money. :D


If not, I'll give building my own a try once I have the body on it... I ordered some ABS plastic, but had to return it and get my money back when I found out that they decided not to deliver to my address and that I'd have to pick it up 20 miles away, and with no car, that just wasn't happening. I managed to eventually get a ride by a friend to get the coroplast earlier this year though. Durable stuff and worth every penny, but now I need to get some vinyl wrapping to protect everything I've built from UVB rays. Drag reduction is going to allow me to put this suspension to the test at higher speeds, as long as I shaped the pieces right. I'm hoping I get pleasantly surprised at 40-50 mph going down a steep hill. If it can handle a pothole at that speed, it will give me confidence that I can make a 230 mile trip to Austin, TX when I motorize it, without worrying that the suspension is going to fail.

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 22, 2017 3:53 pm

The Toecutter wrote:It looks to me as if adam333 has a new market niche to fulfill and make some more money. :D


If not, I'll give building my own a try once I have the body on it... I ordered some ABS plastic, but had to return it and get my money back when I found out that they decided not to deliver to my address and that I'd have to pick it up 20 miles away, and with no car, that just wasn't happening. I managed to eventually get a ride by a friend to get the coroplast earlier this year though. Durable stuff and worth every penny, but now I need to get some vinyl wrapping to protect everything I've built from UVB rays. Drag reduction is going to allow me to put this suspension to the test at higher speeds, as long as I shaped the pieces right. I'm hoping I get pleasantly surprised at 40-50 mph going down a steep hill. If it can handle a pothole at that speed, it will give me confidence that I can make a 230 mile trip to Austin, TX when I motorize it, without worrying that the suspension is going to fail.
40mph is a more doable target than 50mph uphill on human power, unless you sink a lot of e-power or run a trike made out of helium... my A1 trike at 120 lbs requires ~3 kW to go up certain hills at 50 mph... I'd say 20-25 mph avg will be easily doable on human power for rolling hills and overall flat terrain, but on steep long climbs you should think more like 8 mph, and that's if you're super fit. I can sustain climbing with my trike unpowered @ 6 mph for a few minutes, and you're talking a workout... 180lbs rider + 120lbs trike is a lot of weight to pull uphill for me.

Just some thoughts :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Aug 20, 2017 5:03 am

Suspension update: I took the suspension apart after 7.1k miles and here are my findings. I have the original version of the kit installed for about 6100 miles now, or 1 1/2 years, and has gone through a Wisconsin winter as a daily commuter.

-The air shock bolt seized inside the shock collar and took a lot of effort to get it out. I reassembled using anti-seize compound on the collars and some of the other parts, this should prevent them from requiring a hammer to get them out again.
-The air shock rubber grommets were also busted on the moving block part, I had to replace them; added grease there so they will slide better.
-The steering knuckles both were cracked at the edge around the wheel nipple, so I had to drill them to add a 2nd bold to hold the suspension, it is now rock solid. (AFAIK Adam will include the 2nd hole already drilled on the next suspension version so all you have to do is just drill the knuckle to get the bolt through.)
-Rust on the primary A-arm bolts, but its mostly superficial.

After fixing the knuckles everything went back together nicely and works perfect.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

wrkgstiff
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by wrkgstiff » Aug 21, 2017 6:08 pm

Hey gman, you wouldn't have taken pictures of said issues would you? I'd be very interested in them if you have them. Where did you get the replacement parts for the shock? I've had a heck of a time trying to find the source for them. I'm wondering if just getting another pair of shocks wouldn't be easier. Are you using slickoleum or slick honey?

Did you drill the hole underneath the original mounting hole? What size bolt did you use?

Anyway, sorry for all the questions, but your experience is really interesting and anything you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks man!
gman1971 wrote:Suspension update: I took the suspension apart after 7.1k miles and here are my findings. I have the original version of the kit installed for about 6100 miles now, or 1 1/2 years, and has gone through a Wisconsin winter as a daily commuter.

-The air shock bolt seized inside the shock collar and took a lot of effort to get it out. I reassembled using anti-seize compound on the collars and some of the other parts, this should prevent them from requiring a hammer to get them out again.
-The air shock rubber grommets were also busted on the moving block part, I had to replace them; added grease there so they will slide better.
-The steering knuckles both were cracked at the edge around the wheel nipple, so I had to drill them to add a 2nd bold to hold the suspension, it is now rock solid. (AFAIK Adam will include the 2nd hole already drilled on the next suspension version so all you have to do is just drill the knuckle to get the bolt through.)
-Rust on the primary A-arm bolts, but its mostly superficial.

After fixing the knuckles everything went back together nicely and works perfect.

G.

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Aug 21, 2017 7:51 pm

Yes, here is what I did.

The black line/arrow points where the thing cracked, and the whole nipple/tube weld is also cracked, seems like cheap welding to me, with too much material take out of the bracket.. but whatever... :)
Image

And this is how it looks from the other side (the final bolt is longer and uses washers too but you get the idea.
Image

I think this is a must do if you plan on running high speed on the stock steering knuckles, I've broken 3 of them already so I am well aware of this issue...

I used grade 10.9 8mm bolts, its bulletproof and the knuckle, even if it was already damaged will be back to brand new status after adding the 2nd holding point to the aluminum block. The modification requires cutting the lame tab they welded in there so the bolt can go through.

Oh, I didn't use a thicker bolt b/c I didn't want to remove more material from the knuckle plate, and there is another giant bolt helping to hold it too.

Hope this helps.
G.
wrkgstiff wrote:Hey gman, you wouldn't have taken pictures of said issues would you? I'd be very interested in them if you have them. Where did you get the replacement parts for the shock? I've had a heck of a time trying to find the source for them. I'm wondering if just getting another pair of shocks wouldn't be easier. Are you using slickoleum or slick honey?

Did you drill the hole underneath the original mounting hole? What size bolt did you use?

Anyway, sorry for all the questions, but your experience is really interesting and anything you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks man!
gman1971 wrote:Suspension update: I took the suspension apart after 7.1k miles and here are my findings. I have the original version of the kit installed for about 6100 miles now, or 1 1/2 years, and has gone through a Wisconsin winter as a daily commuter.

-The air shock bolt seized inside the shock collar and took a lot of effort to get it out. I reassembled using anti-seize compound on the collars and some of the other parts, this should prevent them from requiring a hammer to get them out again.
-The air shock rubber grommets were also busted on the moving block part, I had to replace them; added grease there so they will slide better.
-The steering knuckles both were cracked at the edge around the wheel nipple, so I had to drill them to add a 2nd bold to hold the suspension, it is now rock solid. (AFAIK Adam will include the 2nd hole already drilled on the next suspension version so all you have to do is just drill the knuckle to get the bolt through.)
-Rust on the primary A-arm bolts, but its mostly superficial.

After fixing the knuckles everything went back together nicely and works perfect.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Aug 21, 2017 8:06 pm

As for the shock, I didn't replace anything; I just had a hard time getting it out once it unthreaded, since it seized at the metal collar :) Used a generous dose of anti-seize in the bolt so it shouldn't lock up ever again.

G.
wrkgstiff wrote:Hey gman, you wouldn't have taken pictures of said issues would you? I'd be very interested in them if you have them. Where did you get the replacement parts for the shock? I've had a heck of a time trying to find the source for them. I'm wondering if just getting another pair of shocks wouldn't be easier. Are you using slickoleum or slick honey?

Did you drill the hole underneath the original mounting hole? What size bolt did you use?

Anyway, sorry for all the questions, but your experience is really interesting and anything you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks man!
gman1971 wrote:Suspension update: I took the suspension apart after 7.1k miles and here are my findings. I have the original version of the kit installed for about 6100 miles now, or 1 1/2 years, and has gone through a Wisconsin winter as a daily commuter.

-The air shock bolt seized inside the shock collar and took a lot of effort to get it out. I reassembled using anti-seize compound on the collars and some of the other parts, this should prevent them from requiring a hammer to get them out again.
-The air shock rubber grommets were also busted on the moving block part, I had to replace them; added grease there so they will slide better.
-The steering knuckles both were cracked at the edge around the wheel nipple, so I had to drill them to add a 2nd bold to hold the suspension, it is now rock solid. (AFAIK Adam will include the 2nd hole already drilled on the next suspension version so all you have to do is just drill the knuckle to get the bolt through.)
-Rust on the primary A-arm bolts, but its mostly superficial.

After fixing the knuckles everything went back together nicely and works perfect.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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The Toecutter
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Aug 22, 2017 6:50 pm

This means that at some point in the future, I will need to modify the suspension/knuckles in like manner. Thank you for sharing this information here.

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