KMX Trike Front Suspension

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 25, 2016 6:54 pm

Chalo wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
Chalo wrote:How is the bump steer now? That's a big offset of the contact patch relative to the steering knuckle.
Well, it really doesn't feel much different in terms of bump steering as it did before; its always had bump steering before the suspension went in so I don't really know any different after riding this trike for 1700 miles.
That's reassuring. I reckoned that the longer the lever arm to bump steer with, the more pronounced the effect would be.

I also wonder (because the suspension is fully independent with no anti-sway) whether the trike rolls noticeably more to the outside when turning.
Well, I guess one grows accustomed to things and we don't even realize they are there.

One side effect I noticed is that at higher speeds it takes more effort to turn the wheel so it kinda acts like a steering damper so keeps the trike centered a little better.

As for body roll:

Well, it has suspension so its obviously going to roll now regardless. I was expecting a boat, but I was pleasantly surprised to find this slow and progressive compression/roll to the outside like you would expect on a sporty car instead; and the way it feels now to me feels a lot more natural and way more predictable on the tight turns; mainly because I now have a sense of when the body starts to roll and how much as opposed to before where it was: no roll, keep turning... no roll, keep turning... no roll, keep turning.. OH SHIT.... and BAM it snap-flips on you and you're done. I would venture to say that a sway bar on a lightweight trike like this will make it feel really harsh, that is the big issue with sway bars on cars, you go too stiff and the thing doesn't roll but then you have oversteering (or understeering) all over the place and very hard ride over bumpy terrain. If anything, and before adding swabars, I would lower the spring rate a hair or two... and see how it handles. IMO with the current spring rates I don't think it needs any swaybars at all. Plus those extra 3 inches on each side really help on preventing flipping the trike.

All in all it is a great and worthy upgrade considering the constrains that were placed upon the designer. I know there is no replacement for a frame built with a long arm double wishbone etc... but between this and unsuspended I am going with this hands down, any day of the week. It is a huge improvement that its simply hard to describe unless you've been pounding the pavement @30 mph on an unsuspended trike for 1700 miles. Once you try this there is no going back IMO.

Now, I feel it really needs some dampening. On my way from work today I took my trike up to 50 mph and while it was a blast to ride and not feel the constant pounding, even on rough roads, you can tell there is nothing stopping those springs from bouncing all over when the pavement gets really rough, and the rebound dampening can be significant downfall on the stock spring setup b/c it can potentially bounce you back with as much force as it went in thus launching you into space... Specially so with low profile tires like I run on my trike (I run Schwalbe Tryker 20x1'5 on the front and I love those tires) with nothing to dampen the spring force.

Just my thoughts.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

evolutiongts
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Jul 26, 2016 1:16 pm

How is the straight line stability?
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 26, 2016 10:02 pm

evolutiongts wrote:How is the straight line stability?
From my experience up to 40 mph, it's really stable, more than without the suspension.

Gman could probably comment on higher speed.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 27, 2016 2:38 am

adam333 wrote:
evolutiongts wrote:How is the straight line stability?
From my experience up to 40 mph, it's really stable, more than without the suspension.

Gman could probably comment on higher speed.
Yes, its pretty darn stable, like I stated on my initial review: it is night and day compared to how it was before. And I've already taken the trike up to 52mph and the experience can be summed up in one word: a dream.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Jul 27, 2016 12:01 pm

Thats great news, I can't wait to receive mine. :)
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 27, 2016 1:02 pm

evolutiongts wrote:Thats great news, I can't wait to receive mine. :)
Cool. Have you been riding the trike?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

evolutiongts
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Jul 27, 2016 2:24 pm

gman1971 wrote:
evolutiongts wrote:Thats great news, I can't wait to receive mine. :)
Cool. Have you been riding the trike?

G.
Yeah.

Image

Ended up ditching the Cyclone 3000W for a rear hub motor MXUS 3000W 3T with Sabvoton 72V150A sinewave controller. Pulling the full 130-150A on acceleration, 10000W+ is quite a rush! =)

I'm overwhelming the trike with power, now is time for stability and safety.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 27, 2016 6:26 pm

nice beast trike evolutiongts :D

you could also switch the front tire to something more robust if you have issue with flat as I did.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=81487
Image
Last edited by adam333 on Apr 17, 2017 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

evolutiongts
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Jul 27, 2016 7:02 pm

adam333 wrote:nice beast trike evolutiongts :D

you could also switch the front tire to something more robust if you have issue with flat as I did.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=81487
Image
=)

My front wheels are getting laced up as we speak.

14" Prowheel

Image

With IRC NR-77 Moped tires 14 x 2.75

Image
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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gman1971
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 28, 2016 2:16 am

Shame, ... how so? too many mechanical problems?

The Cyclone 3000W has been working flawlessly for me, even pumped to 90A for a respectable 6.5kW of power I've only replaced one BMX chain at 900 miles and the primary 10speed chain still doesn't even show signs of stretch at close to 1700 miles now. Works exactly as I designed it.

How fast have you gone with 10kW?

G.
evolutiongts wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
evolutiongts wrote:Thats great news, I can't wait to receive mine. :)
Cool. Have you been riding the trike?

G.
Yeah.

Image

Ended up ditching the Cyclone 3000W for a rear hub motor MXUS 3000W 3T with Sabvoton 72V150A sinewave controller. Pulling the full 130-150A on acceleration, 10000W+ is quite a rush! =)

I'm overwhelming the trike with power, now is time for stability and safety.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

evolutiongts
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Jul 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Yeah I just running into too many issues with the Cyclone, Its a great motor no doubt. My derailer hanger snapped, too many burn outs =).

Chain issues, etc.

Eventually I just went with hubbie and its great since its quiet and smooth with a sinewave controller, I also have regen which does 95% of my braking. Top speed is a little bit over 50mph on 72V.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Aug 24, 2016 3:09 pm

Suspension Update:
Finally got both air shocks installed on my trike. I ran one side for a while, and it was an improvement on the side where they are installed, but adding the 2nd one made a huge improvement. No more squeaks either, the original 750# springs fake shocks end up squeaking after a few days of use.

I am running both at 90psi (me sitting on the trike) and they are super cushy and provide awesome ride comfort, even when going over the big stuff too. And these air shocks now control rebound rather nicely so its a worthy upgrade if you are looking for perfection from this kit. So no suspension to suspension was like an 80-90% improvement, these air shocks get that last 10-20% out of this kit.

Hope Adam can get these true air shocks OEM as opposed to the 750lbs springs.

Here you can see the air shocks installed on my trike.
Image

I now have very close to 2200 miles as of the writing of this post. So yes, I am racking around 500 miles or so every month on the trike, rain or shine, and the suspension hasn't bent, no bolts have come off, nothing has broken or gone out of alignment... its just rock solid; well, sort of expected from ~2cm thick blocks of solid AL that the thing is made out of.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Aug 24, 2016 8:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback Gman :D

I ordered mine also, I should be able to test them in a few weeks.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Aug 24, 2016 9:55 pm

adam333 wrote:Thanks for the feedback Gman :D

I ordered mine also, I should be able to test them in a few weeks.
Nice!! If mine were an indication It should be around 2 weeks and change.

Today upon getting home I added a bit more pressure to the shocks, upped them to 75lbs (from 50, without rider, and trike on jackstands) and I've also inflated front tires to 80 PSI. I'll see how it rides tomorrow on my way to work. This has me thinking about adding a pneumatic pump so I can adjust shock pressure and ride height without having to dismount to adjust... hmmm maybe some future mod?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Nov 05, 2016 5:31 pm

I am thinking of ordering this kit next week. Should I do so, would it be possible to get a set of airshocks as standard with it?

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Nov 07, 2016 3:18 pm

The Toecutter wrote:I am thinking of ordering this kit next week. Should I do so, would it be possible to get a set of airshocks as standard with it?
Yes, I did it for a customer already. But it's a 150$ extra option.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Nov 10, 2016 4:20 pm

I'm getting a bit of shimmy from my trike, side to side movement, been trying to align it for a while but no matter what I still get shimmy.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Nov 11, 2016 12:13 pm

I got that issue also when I had the heavy green wheels on the trike.

I got rid of it by balancing the wheels with counterweights. I will take a picture tonight, but I think I had to add a good 40 grams each sides.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Nov 11, 2016 8:46 pm

Those wheels were so unbalanced that it made the trike unpleasant to ride above 20 mph

I installed the wheels on my truing stand then "static balanced" each one with those weight purchased on Ebay ( the back is double side tape and they are 5grams ea )
I added 45 grams on this wheel and 20 grams on the other one.

I only had balancing issues with heavy wheels or motorcycle wheels so far. This should solve your problem.

Image
Last edited by adam333 on Apr 17, 2017 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

evolutiongts
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by evolutiongts » Nov 12, 2016 1:33 am

adam333 wrote:Those wheels were so unbalanced that it made the trike unpleasant to ride above 20 mph

I installed the wheels on my truing stand then "static balanced" each one with those weight purchased on Ebay ( the back is double side tape and they are 5grams ea )
I added 45 grams on this wheel and 20 grams on the other one.

I only had balancing issues with heavy wheels or motorcycle wheels so far. This should solve your problem.

Image
Yeah I noticed that, before with the lighter bicycle wheels and tires it didn't shimmy.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Nov 30, 2016 10:06 am

Thanks John :D

Shipping would be expensive for India and Bangladesh ( 139us$ ) And there is no tracking available even at that price :?

Most pieces are made of aluminum so mud and rust would only affect the screws that are made of steel.

This being said, it is possible to replace all the steels screws by Stainless Steel, but they are very expensive ( it add another 160us$ on top of the regular price )

The handling in those condition would be similar to what you have now, except it would be softer.
Last edited by adam333 on Jan 29, 2017 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jan 01, 2017 2:51 pm

Update:
Air shocks are now also available but they add an extra 150 US$
weight go down to 1.25kg ea.
You will need an air shock pump for best results.

Image


KMX Trike Front suspension retrofit kit with air shock: 1045 US$ + shipping.

Send me a pm or a email at: sales@royindustries.ca
Last edited by adam333 on Jul 25, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Toecutter
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jan 03, 2017 8:46 pm

I installed mine a few weeks ago, but have not ridden it yet. A friend of mine is ordering the proper compressor for his shop, and I can skip the expense of purchasing one if I can wait for him to get the tool.

I have not let the air out of the shocks, either. In your opinion, would it be safe to ride around without added air pressure at low speeds? (< 25 mph) I do not want to damage the components.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jan 03, 2017 11:15 pm

no no no!

do not ride the trike without setting the air first. ( min 60 lbs ) ( 75 lbs gave me the best result so far )

When I assemble them, there is almost no pressure left in the shock.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jan 04, 2017 8:11 pm

It's good that I asked. I've been tempted to ride it ever since I installed it. I will continue waiting then.

I'll be sure to give you feedback when I get around to riding it with the air added.

It looks badass just sitting there. :mrgreen:

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