KMX Trike Front Suspension

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adam333
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jan 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Great :)

Looking forward to hear your feedback.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by paulstung » Jan 27, 2017 12:19 pm

Hi there mate, these kits look awesome, I'm looking into getting my first trike within the next 3 months, and I'm very interested in a kit if they're still available, how much is the shipping to the UK please? If anyone from the UK has bought a set, how much did Royal Mail sting you for on Handing and import ? Thanks all.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jan 27, 2017 3:03 pm

Thanks for the kind words :D

UK shipping with tracking is 79 us$.

I am not sure how much Royal Mail would charge in custom fee though. What is the threshold $ for them to charge custom fee?

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by paulstung » Jan 27, 2017 7:00 pm

I'm not sure on the custom fee, but Royal Mail charge a handling fee, when I ordered my triangle frame bag from Luna, it was £12 I think that works out to be $15, I believe it goes on weight. I've just found this, If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you’ll have to pay Customs Duty (if over £120 value) and Import VAT (if over £18) on top of the purchase price (including duties), though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of the calculated duty payable is £7 or less. Please note there is also an £8 Parcel Force Fee for collecting the Import VAT.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Feb 17, 2017 11:05 pm

As of last Friday, I had air in the shocks. I tried them at 90 psi. I've put 29 miles on them, with a maximum speed of over 25 mph, purely under pedal power thus far.

I am impressed with its capabilities and I am of the opinion that I have gotten what I paid for. I can go over potholes at 20 mph and it feels like I'm in a car, provided I keep the rear wheel out of it. The feedback during steering is valuable and gives me a subtle hint whether or not I will flip if I introduce even more Gs.

I would have done more testing, but I parked it at a grocery store earlier in the week and found that while I was inside someone had damaged the spokes on one of the front wheels. I had to have the wheel re-built. I will be putting the trike back together tonight, and ride it more tomorrow.

I do have a few questions:

1) I am using Avid BB5 cable-pull brakes. They do not line up flush with the suspension kit as shown in the manual. I am guessing that they were designed for hydraulic brakes instead? Anyhow, I used spacers to get them to work, but no such items were shown in the images in your manual and I would like everything to line up perfectly.

2) Over the long term, can I expect the shocks to retain their air pressure? I need to know if a pump dedicated specifically for this suspension will be a necessary component in my tool kit for long distance riding.

3) What is some of the worst abuse that you know of that the shocks can withstand? I'm just looking for a general idea of what I can expect of this suspension if I'm flying down the highway at 55 mph and hit a large rock or chunk of brick with one of my front wheels.
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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Feb 18, 2017 9:32 am

The Toecutter wrote:As of last Friday, I had air in the shocks. I tried them at 90 psi. I've put 29 miles on them, with a maximum speed of over 25 mph, purely under pedal power thus far.

I am impressed with its capabilities and I am of the opinion that I have gotten what I paid for. I can go over potholes at 20 mph and it feels like I'm in a car, provided I keep the rear wheel out of it. The feedback during steering is valuable and gives me a subtle hint whether or not I will flip if I introduce even more Gs.
Glad to hear you had a chance to test the suspension and you enjoyed it for this first ride :D
I personally got best results at 75 psi.
The Toecutter wrote: I would have done more testing, but I parked it at a grocery store earlier in the week and found that while I was inside someone had damaged the spokes on one of the front wheels. I had to have the wheel re-built. I will be putting the trike back together tonight, and ride it more tomorrow.
I also had this kind of issue with other bike in the past... I never understood why jealous people feel the need to destroy uncommon cool things...
The Toecutter wrote: I do have a few questions:

1) I am using Avid BB5 cable-pull brakes. They do not line up flush with the suspension kit as shown in the manual. I am guessing that they were designed for hydraulic brakes instead? Anyhow, I used spacers to get them to work, but no such items were shown in the images in your manual and I would like everything to line up perfectly.

2) Over the long term, can I expect the shocks to retain their air pressure? I need to know if a pump dedicated specifically for this suspension will be a necessary component in my tool kit for long distance riding.

3) What is some of the worst abuse that you know of that the shocks can withstand? I'm just looking for a general idea of what I can expect of this suspension if I'm flying down the highway at 55 mph and hit a large rock or chunk of brick with one of my front wheels.
1) The suspension was designed to use Bengal brake : http://www.bengalperformance.com.tw/mechanical.htm
Would you mind show me a picture of the brake alignment with the Avid BB5?

2) Well, I tested the air pressure after 6 month and I lost roughly 10 psi from each shocks. It wont be needed for long distance riding but I would recommend testing the air pressure every 6 months.

3) The suspension was designed to be very robust. There is a lot more chance to damage the front wheel if you hit a rock or any obstacle at high speed.
This being said, I did not heard of any failure yet.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Feb 18, 2017 2:44 pm

1) The suspension was designed to use Bengal brake : http://www.bengalperformance.com.tw/mechanical.htm
Would you mind show me a picture of the brake alignment with the Avid BB5?
I will place an order for a set of Bengal Brakes later on today, and get a picture of my BB5s sometime today too(Have to charge my camera).
2) Well, I tested the air pressure after 6 month and I lost roughly 10 psi from each shocks. It wont be needed for long distance riding but I would recommend testing the air pressure every 6 months.
That means I will need my own compressor then, but not urgently soon. A simple hand compressor for motorcycles might be a good investment.
3) The suspension was designed to be very robust. There is a lot more chance to damage the front wheel if you hit a rock or any obstacle at high speed.
That is what I was hoping to hear. It appeared that way before I ordered it based on others' experiences with the kit, and seems to be very sturdy based on my usage thus far. The availability of your kit and its existing 3rd party usage cases have convinced me the KMX would have met most of my requirements without having to go full-retard and build my own chassis completely from scratch, and I am not disappointed with this investment at all. A body is going on it soon.

The Maxxis Hookworms have over 1000 miles total on them now and I can foresee myself needing to replace them in a few more months, probably with the ECE50-rated Schwalbe Tryker 20".

My long term intent is to upgrade to moped rims laced with 10ga spokes and Schwalbe Energizer Solar tires rated for 100 km/h but capable of reliably doing cross-continental solar car races at rated speed. I really want reliability and durability on par with DOT-rated tires, but I also require a low enough rolling resistance that I could still maintain a decent 15+ mph speed on flat ground under pedal-only power if the battery runs dead, and that will not be possible with the tire choices available for scooters, mopeds and motorcycles. Top speed is going to be somewhere over 40 mph, maybe up to 55 mph, with the intent to cruise comfortably at no less than 30 mph and with capability to accelerate from 0-30 mph like a car. High risk of component failure will not be an option, there...

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Feb 18, 2017 4:47 pm

The spacer you installed on the brake could do the job just fine as long the screw is long enough. It might not be needed to replace your Avid BB5. The picture would be to confirm this.

I have an air compressor and it's a PITA to adjust the air pressure of the shocks with that. If you buy something, go for the specialized air pump for shocks.

If you go with bigger rim and spokes, remember that the suspension will decrease in efficiency. More weight on the front wheels, lesser the effect from the suspension.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Feb 21, 2017 7:21 pm

My computer just broke again. I am posting this from a gaming console. I will not be able to upload the pic yet. That being said, do all Bengal brakes have the same mounting pattern? I am interested in ordering the Helix 7.5 hydraulic brake. If you don't mind sharing, which model of Bengal are you using?

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Feb 21, 2017 8:08 pm

I have the MB-849A brake on my trike.

They look a lot like the MB-600

I am not sure if they all have the same mounting pattern though.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Feb 21, 2017 10:41 pm

How often do you need to make adjustments to them? How is their performance during a 40 mph to 0 mph panic stop? The BB5s and their fade and balancing issues will not work for my needs. It would help to have a brake that fits up and works with minimal issues. My BB5s did/do work well at a 20 mph panic stop, but balancing them was not a straightforward process and I do not trust them at the speeds I am considering.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Feb 21, 2017 10:50 pm

If you go with a hub motor, make sure to enable the regen. Regen is doing 90% of my total braking.

The mechanical brake are doing fine, although I never made any panic brake except to adjust the balancing. But ya, I consider their braking power decent.

They take me roughly 5 min to adjust when I switch front wheels. Otherwise, I never have to balance em.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » May 07, 2017 8:37 pm

I have placed more than 900 miles on it and have no complaints thus far, but the screws have developed surface rust. I need to sand them down and prime/paint them. I haven't replaced my computer and need to restore service to a burner phone my pics are stored on, so I can't share pics of the unfinished body shell either.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » May 08, 2017 9:51 am

Thanks for the feedback.

Ya, this is also the part I dislike about those steel Shoulder screws...

You could also brush em with a steel brush to remove the rust. Be careful not to reach the aluminum though.

It is also possible to use S.S. screws but they are expensive: ( an extra 145$ )

2 x 90263A176 @ 14.51$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw M8 x 35 )
2 x 90269A156 @ 15.98$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw M8 x 40 )
16 x 97345A621 @ 5.34$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw 3/8” x 5/8” )
Supplier : McMaster
Last edited by adam333 on Jul 25, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 08, 2017 1:36 pm

adam333 wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

Ya, this is also the part I dislike about those steel Shoulder screws...

You could also brush em with a steel brush to remove the rust. Be careful not to reach the aluminum though.

It is also possible to use S.S. screws but they are expensive: ( an extra 145$ )

2 x 90263A176 @ 14.51$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw M8 x 35 )
2 x 90269A156 @ 15.98$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw M8 x 40 )
16 x 97345A621 @ 5.34$ ea ( 316 SS Shoulder screw 3/8” x 5/8” )
Supplier : McMaster
Hey guys, almost 7 k miles on the suspension.... working well... :)

I would think twice before putting stainless steel b olts on the suspension arms, that is a highly stressed part and SS bolts just aren't as strong as the grade12 bolts Adam put in there stock... just my thoughts. I simply live with the rust... :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 08, 2017 11:48 pm

You sure put a lot of mileage on this trike. Glad to hear it is still going well :D

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 09, 2017 2:13 am

adam333 wrote:You sure put a lot of mileage on this trike. Glad to hear it is still going well :D
Yes, so far so good, and we just moved, so my commute is now a mere 3 miles to work, therefore the mile racking won't go as fast as it used to go...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 11, 2017 11:05 pm

7,000 miles is impressive. It gives me confidence that I will be able to take long trips in this without worry that the suspension is going to fail. I have had to replace the right spindle/steering knuckle due to vandalism. My first coroplast body is mostly finished. I just need to build some mounting brackets out of aluminum(or have someone else build them, given that I don't have the tools) to provide the rigidity I need so that the body doesn't go flopping around in the wind or come off in the event of an accident.

I've been over 35 mph downhill so far and the suspension is solid and performs well at speed. It might serve me well to slightly lower the air pressure in the shocks, perhaps to 80 psi.

I love cornering in this thing. It feels like a go-kart, although being so low to the ground greatly adds to the illusion of speed. As maneuverable as this trike is due to being so narrow, it's roadholding capability in terms of lateral G forces is probably worse than any new car on the market. The suspension seems to help a little bit. This thing was a lot more prone to tipping or going airborne over potholes before I installed the suspension. I once went airborne during a turn at 22 mph before installing it, and that was a scary experience that I never want to repeat.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by adam333 » Jul 12, 2017 1:15 pm

Interesting, did you took any pictures of this coroplast fairing?

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Yes. Some of them are in the following post:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1304293

I have more recent pics on another device. I'd say as of today it's about 80% complete. The pics in that link are the progress from months ago...

My testing with the body has been limited to around the block. I do not want to damage it and undo my hard work. Doing 35 mph downhill was totally unfared with ample amounts of leg power(and probably a tailwind too). The suspension performs well even at that speed.

Once the body is on it, it will be time to do the electric conversion... then I can really put things to the test. I very much want to feel how this suspension performs at 45-50 mph. I have high expectation based on how your suspension has done thus far.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 13, 2017 11:09 am

Suspension has worked well at 60 mph, so I don't think you'll have much of an issue with it. Brakes tho, just make sure you get decent brakes and large rotors to stop from high speeds.

G.
The Toecutter wrote:Yes. Some of them are in the following post:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1304293

I have more recent pics on another device. I'd say as of today it's about 80% complete. The pics in that link are the progress from months ago...

My testing with the body has been limited to around the block. I do not want to damage it and undo my hard work. Doing 35 mph downhill was totally unfared with ample amounts of leg power(and probably a tailwind too). The suspension performs well even at that speed.

Once the body is on it, it will be time to do the electric conversion... then I can really put things to the test. I very much want to feel how this suspension performs at 45-50 mph. I have high expectation based on how your suspension has done thus far.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by The Toecutter » Jul 13, 2017 6:21 pm

gman1971 wrote:Suspension has worked well at 60 mph, so I don't think you'll have much of an issue with it. Brakes tho, just make sure you get decent brakes and large rotors to stop from high speeds.
I've upgraded to Avid BB7s two months ago. Stock BB7 rotors though. Are there any that you would recommend? Your build performs very well and anyone building up a KMX could learn a lot by studying it.

What is the scariest thing that you've done so far on your trike where the performance of the suspension was critical to you avoiding a wreck? What conditions was the suspension subjected to during this experience, how did it perform, and how close were you to disaster?

I've gone over tall 4"+ speedbumps at 15 mph and have gone airborne from those, but I'm a lot more careful with how I approached obstacles now since I don't want to damage it. I'm confident that I could hit a 2" deep pothole at 30 mph with this thing and not wreck, but I don't want to deliberately test that, either.

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 14, 2017 4:56 am

The Toecutter wrote:
gman1971 wrote:Suspension has worked well at 60 mph, so I don't think you'll have much of an issue with it. Brakes tho, just make sure you get decent brakes and large rotors to stop from high speeds.
I've upgraded to Avid BB7s two months ago. Stock BB7 rotors though. Are there any that you would recommend? Your build performs very well and anyone building up a KMX could learn a lot by studying it.

What is the scariest thing that you've done so far on your trike where the performance of the suspension was critical to you avoiding a wreck? What conditions was the suspension subjected to during this experience, how did it perform, and how close were you to disaster?

I've gone over tall 4"+ speedbumps at 15 mph and have gone airborne from those, but I'm a lot more careful with how I approached obstacles now since I don't want to damage it. I'm confident that I could hit a 2" deep pothole at 30 mph with this thing and not wreck, but I don't want to deliberately test that, either.
Good, I've been running BB7s since mile 0 on both trikes, no issues to date. I am running 203 mm on the fronts on my A-1 trike, and 160mm on A-2 trike since its a lot lighter and my wife doesn't drive it at 40 mph like I do...

Well, I don't try stupid things anymore, speed bumps at 14 mph is out of the question, I wouldn't run them on a real car that fast, let alone on the trike... and especially so if I can help it... The scariest moment was losing control in black ice during my commute... those are the ones you have to watch out for... and suspension probably didn't make much of a difference. Now, I did some dumb things before I got the suspension like get it up to 65 mph, etc... but most of that was with < 500 miles, or in other words, a long time ago. The suspension helped in the cornering quite a bit, and ride comfort.... nowadays I take turns at 30 mph without breaking a sweat, just apex them correctly and lean a hair into the turn. Just pay attention to the road and be aware you're not driving a tank, so long you realize that , you'll have a happy trike experience like I have so far.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by gman1971 » Jul 15, 2017 2:54 am

Just to showcase how great Adam's suspension is, here are both of my trikes "racing" around the subdivision's backroad loop... A-2 only has 3kW power, and it isn't equipped with Adam's suspension like A-1 does, which also runs 6.5 kW too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdeZMU ... e=youtu.be

At each of those straightaways A-1 trike is doing ~35 mph, and you can hear the brake slamming and how hard its cornering, almost to the point of losing traction... btw, my son is at the wheel... :)

Enjoy.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: KMX Trike Front Suspension

Post by tomjasz » Jul 15, 2017 3:23 am

G.

You're alive! And well?

T.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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