BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroonie!

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tommie   10 W

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by tommie » May 15 2016 4:08pm

The real killer version of this would be one that's hard wired into the existing wiring loom. The ability to switch from an `off road/no limit` mode to a fully legal country specific setup with a couple of button presses would be immense.

Unfortunately as i see it at present you have to stop cycling, possibly have to disconnect the battery power somehow??, disconnect the cable controller-display then fit the switcheroonie, upload the mode you want etc etc..

I can envisage situations where you might want to do this as quickly as possible without the need to faff around with cables, battery power etc.

a great idea but not just the finished article imo.

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » May 16 2016 2:44am

Dillenger_Australia wrote:


KINNINVIEKID, how many Amp-hours are we talking there!? looks like lots of batteries!

- Adam
Sorry about the late reply,just come back from a break in Thailand.
Thanks for the chance to try this out.
My bike carries up to 48Ah of Multistars and currently has 4x 6S 16Ah in the Bike bag and 14S 16Ah in the triangle bag ( a 6S and a pair of 4S).
I use the 14S when on the boring bits and the others when I dont need as much speed.
Last edited by KINNINVIEKID on May 20 2016 4:00am, edited 1 time in total.
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cal3thousand   1.21 GW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by cal3thousand » May 18 2016 1:18pm

When is this ending? I have a frame that I am currently building up with a BBSHD. Wheels will be built in 2 weeks, so hopefully this is still going on .
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » May 25 2016 5:17am

Recieved mine this morning and unfortunately the rain has arrived at the same time and its a bank holiday weekend so it will be Tuesday before I get to try it.
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by TotalConfusion » May 28 2016 4:11am

Dillenger BBSHD Kit
2016-01-20_12.53.16-1.jpeg
Dillenger BBSHD Kit
2016-01-20_12.53.16-1.jpeg (105.51 KiB) Viewed 3007 times

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waynebergman   10 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by waynebergman » Jun 08 2016 4:39pm

Adam thanks so much for the Dillenger Switcheroonie. It arrived in the mail the other day. I have a friend in the city that will put this gift to better use than me as I am only riding trails these days so I will pass it on to him shortly when I see him next. I will ask him to send input for you. His name is Jason and he just purchased from Luna the BBSHD with full kit. He is new to e-biking but is an Electrical engineer so I am sure he will have some good feedback for you. A quick question is there any kind of users guide or manual to go along with this devise?
.........wayne

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Jun 09 2016 4:25pm

Finally managed to try this out this week.
My bbs02 in standard form (sf) has no throttle in assist 0 and max wattage seen on CA is 1150W.
I programmed it to run in unlimited mode and max wattage is now 1360W and it has full throttle in assist 0.
On standard in assist 0 it draws 1 watt when pedalling but in unlimited it draws between 5 and 12 watts.
The pas system provides a lot less power in unlimited mode and I am using assist 5 where I was using assist 2 before.
The motor runs very hot on full throttle whereas it never got warm on the standard setting.
One thing that did surprise me on a 60 mile ride was that the wh/mile was exactly the same for standard and unlimited setups.
Due to operator error I failed to back up my original settings but I will download the switcheroonie unlimited settings tomorrow.
Forecast for the next 4 days is all rain here so I will try the other settings a soon as I can.
As far as the kit itself is concerned its a handy size to slip in a pocket and takes less than a minute to connect and program (assuming your connector is in an accessible place).
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

Dillenger_Australia   10 W

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Jun 09 2016 4:39pm

waynebergman wrote:Adam thanks so much for the Dillenger Switcheroonie. It arrived in the mail the other day. I have a friend in the city that will put this gift to better use than me as I am only riding trails these days so I will pass it on to him shortly when I see him next. I will ask him to send input for you. His name is Jason and he just purchased from Luna the BBSHD with full kit. He is new to e-biking but is an Electrical engineer so I am sure he will have some good feedback for you. A quick question is there any kind of users guide or manual to go along with this devise?
.........wayne
Hi wayne,

I do apologise, I did forget to attach the instructions with the Switcheroonie when i sent them off. Here is a guide to using it:

User Instructions:

- Hold the power button for 2 seconds to turn on; a white screen will first appear and then load into connect mode.
- Carefully disconnect the display (green) plug on your electric bike (It’s handy to mark with coloured tape the display plug).
- Connect the Switcheroonie into the green plug going to the motor controller; once secure, press the tick button to connect.
- The Switcheroonie will display what controller it is connected to (BBSHD, BBS02, Hub Drive)
- If Hub mode is active, only hub programs are available. If BBS is connected, only BBS programs are available.
- If the controller registers an “unknown controller” it will give access to all modes. Programming can be completed on unknown controllers but is not guaranteed.
- The Switcheroonie will detect what mode is active, and then go to mode selection menu.
- At any time, you can cycle through up or down to reach the “mode checker” to see what mode is active.
- Hit the tick button once you have selected your desired mode
- A progress bar will load and then a result will appear showing if the program was successful or failed.
- Unplug the Switcheroonie and plug your display back in to complete the change.
- Ride away!

The Device turns off after 45 seconds of inactivity or can be turned off by holding the up and down arrows for 1 second.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Jun 09 2016 5:20pm

KINNINVIEKID wrote:Finally managed to try this out this week.
My bbs02 in standard form (sf) has no throttle in assist 0 and max wattage seen on CA is 1150W.
I programmed it to run in unlimited mode and max wattage is now 1360W and it has full throttle in assist 0.
On standard in assist 0 it draws 1 watt when pedalling but in unlimited it draws between 5 and 12 watts.
The pas system provides a lot less power in unlimited mode and I am using assist 5 where I was using assist 2 before.
The motor runs very hot on full throttle whereas it never got warm on the standard setting.
One thing that did surprise me on a 60 mile ride was that the wh/mile was exactly the same for standard and unlimited setups.
Due to operator error I failed to back up my original settings but I will download the switcheroonie unlimited settings tomorrow.
Forecast for the next 4 days is all rain here so I will try the other settings a soon as I can.
As far as the kit itself is concerned its a handy size to slip in a pocket and takes less than a minute to connect and program (assuming your connector is in an accessible place).

Glad to hear you have had a chance to try it out!

One thing i will mention is that your bbs02 standard settings will be running 21A as the max current so peak power at full charge will be (55V x 21A = 1134W) and with unlimited the current is at 25A so (54V x 25A = 1350). So the numbers you saw as max wattage sounds about right.
The pas system provides a lot less power in unlimited mode and I am using assist 5 where I was using assist 2 before.
the default settings on the BBS motors are a non-linear increase in power across the 9 levels of assist. Which if you are used to riding with these levels makes sense but from a fine-tuning perspective are a little limited. I have attached a image of the default assist levels.
Image

Our systems works by a linear progression in assist current from 0% to 100% from assist 0-9. So assist 1 = 10% , assist 2 = 20%, assist 3 = 30% .... assist 8 = 85% and assist 9 = 100%. So this gives you a little more fine tuning to get the exact assist that works for you. whereas in your default settings in the picture assist 2 is really 50% current! so assist 5 makes sense for our program settings to match what you got in assist 2.

It may take a little getting used to as you have ridden it default settings like that for a while, but over time our method makes sense.
The motor runs very hot on full throttle whereas it never got warm on the standard setting.
Again, this is very likely the difference between running 21A and 25A in unlimited mode. Our program uses current mode for startup style on throttle which is generally less aggressive and is less harsh on the controller. But i can look into current draw for the default system and our mode to ensure were doing it right!

I'll look into the 5-12W of draw for assist level 0, the only thing i can see doing that is that the current is set to 1% and speed 100% for assist mode 0 so that throttle can work as lots of people have asked for throttle as a feature in assist 0.

Thanks for the feedback, glad to hear the functionality is there with the device and is simple for the end user to plug in and switch away!

-Adam

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Jun 09 2016 6:42pm

Thanks.
I will get used to it to n time,only had 2 rides so far.
It will be interesting to see how 250W manages with over 130Kg especially as its so hilly here.
Next job is to install a temp sensor as the extra watts certainly produce a lot more heat.
Mind you,if I blow it up its a good excuse to buy a BBSHD :D
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Jun 09 2016 6:48pm

One thing I forgot,when first selecting an assist level I get no power pedalling until I touch the throttle
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

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waynebergman   10 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by waynebergman » Jun 09 2016 7:23pm

Adam I have a question regarding the unit. I understand the Dillenger unit will take note of my current settings which were entered via PC with program cable after purchase of the motor. My PC has since met an early demise and no longer works. Let say I was to try one of the pre set options from the Dillenger unit but then I want to go back to the settings I have entered into the controller via my PC. Is there the option to switch back to my original settings I altered from factory with out going back to the PC? When I plug in the Dillenger unit does it read my current settings and save them so i can go back to them is I guess my main question?

If my personal settings that have been re written to the controller don't get recorded to the Dillenger unit then I would not be interested in using it all nor would I recommend the product for those that have a program cable and PC as it's too much hastle to return to personal custom settings.

If in fact the custom settings that one enters from a PC with program cable is recorded by the Dillenger unit and also you are able to return to them at any time then in fact you could store a few of your own custom settings this way into the unit there by having some custom Watt settings for different countries or states etc?

Thanks Adam in advance for clearing up a few things.....wayne

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Jun 09 2016 8:06pm

waynebergman wrote:Adam I have a question regarding the unit. I understand the Dillenger unit will take note of my current settings which were entered via PC with program cable after purchase of the motor. My PC has since met an early demise and no longer works. Let say I was to try one of the pre set options from the Dillenger unit but then I want to go back to the settings I have entered into the controller via my PC. Is there the option to switch back to my original settings I altered from factory with out going back to the PC? When I plug in the Dillenger unit does it read my current settings and save them so i can go back to them is I guess my main question?

If my personal settings that have been re written to the controller don't get recorded to the Dillenger unit then I would not be interested in using it all nor would I recommend the product for those that have a program cable and PC as it's too much hastle to return to personal custom settings.

If in fact the custom settings that one enters from a PC with program cable is recorded by the Dillenger unit and also you are able to return to them at any time then in fact you could store a few of your own custom settings this way into the unit there by having some custom Watt settings for different countries or states etc?

Thanks Adam in advance for clearing up a few things.....wayne

Hi Wayne,

Funny enough i just had a conversation with my colleague about this exact feature! The initial design was to allow a non-enthusiast the ability to switch easily between some modes that worked well and not stress that they may brick an controller by changing something they were not supposed to with programming cable. However this thread has brought up ideas to how we could bridge the product to appeal to the enthusiasts as well.

I have been writing up some code this morning to implement this function and seems like we may be able to adopt 1 or more "saved settings" mode where the user can save and override some configured settings they like to ride with and it becomes an option on the Switcheroonie to program the bike to.

I will keep you posted with my progression today but looks like this is definitely a feature enthusiast end users will be after.

If this becomes too jumbled between new users and the product that ES users would like we may decide on a ES Specific model of this. Which has by default no settings programmed on the device but has the option to store multiple custom modes so the user can save their own custom programs.

Therefore, its entirely up to you guys which programs you can switch between and the Switcheroonie becomes a portable programmer for your saved modes.

- Adam

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Jun 09 2016 8:08pm

KINNINVIEKID wrote:One thing I forgot,when first selecting an assist level I get no power pedalling until I touch the throttle
Was that just for the Unlimited mode or did you experience that in all programs?

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by waynebergman » Jun 09 2016 8:29pm

Thanks Adam that explains things. Catering to the user that is comfortable with entering in their own settings in via the PC and cable or better yet letting the end user place parameters right into your Dillenger unit may be something worth working towards. I am sure there will be folks that will use the unit as is but making a version that lets a customer place a set of parameters in a que ready for easy selection could be of great help.

..........wayne

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Jun 10 2016 4:17pm

Dillenger_Australia wrote:
KINNINVIEKID wrote:One thing I forgot,when first selecting an assist level I get no power pedalling until I touch the throttle
Was that just for the Unlimited mode or did you experience that in all programs?
Only tried unlimited so far.
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Jun 15 2016 9:28pm

A User settings option has been added to the device and allows for the user to save the settings currently on the bike.

So you are now able to swap between your favourite settings and one of the other settings that are hard configured to the Switcheroonie. This gives you a little freedom to tune your setup exactly how you like it and still be able to swap to one of our legal mode for riding on any roads.

I have addressed the issues of power draw in assist 0. For modes with throttle active,to have an active throttle in assist 0 requires a non-zero value for pas0 current% and Speed%. This induces a (Very) small assistance in pas level 0. However, I have modified the programs that have Throttle disengaged (Speed-pedelec / 250W legal mode) to have 0 in both these settings so you can ride with no draw on those program modes.

Still deciding on if we will do a complete custom Endless Sphere model that lets you save multiple custom settings to switch between and has no hard-configured settings.

The Switcheroonie will be available on our websites next week, retailing for $99AUD with the purchase of a kit or $149AUD as a standalone product.

Thanks for your feedback about the product so far!

-Adam

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KINNINVIEKID   1 kW

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by KINNINVIEKID » Jul 09 2016 7:50am

Tried the 250W mode this week and it works exactly as expected with a maximum draw of 500W and a cut off speed of 17Mph.
After 2 miles I had had enough of that so put it into 500W mode which removed the speed limit and gave 1000 watts maximum draw.
This setting was great for road use and had the advantage of being more economical as I averaged 17Wh/mi compared to 27Wh/mi on the same roads in unlimited mode.
Finally I tried the 750W mode which gave me 1100W max draw but was not a lot different to 500W on road use for me so I will be using 500W on long rides and unlimited when uphill speed is needed.

Next time we get some dry weather I will try the different modes offroad.
BBSHD on 2017 Marin Muirwoods
BBS02 on Cannondale Trail 6
Dillenger 1000 watt front wheel kit on Trax TFS1 MTB.
250 watt chinese scooter!
Cyclamatic Power Plus 250 watt road bike.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by tomjasz » Sep 10 2016 1:32pm

Hey! Dillinger! I guess since you operate worldwide there's no currency advantages in purchasing these days. I the current available version in the USA programable by the end user? I'd like my specific program parameters instead of presets.

Great idea and implementation. I wish I had seen it sooner.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by Dillenger_Australia » Sep 11 2016 4:26pm

tomjasz wrote:Hey! Dillinger! I guess since you operate worldwide there's no currency advantages in purchasing these days. I the current available version in the USA programable by the end user? I'd like my specific program parameters instead of presets.

Great idea and implementation. I wish I had seen it sooner.
The Switcheroonie currently does offer one save slot that you can utilize. With this function you are able to upload your coinfig files to the BBS unit with the re-programming cable and then the Switcheroonie can save those settings for future use. The US version has preset settings that emulate the type 1, 2 and 3 e-bike requirements as per the California e-bike regulations as well as some off-road settings that are the same as the settings ES user Keplar recommends.

We are looking to develop a programmer that will allow the user to save a set of pre-configured settings that the user uploads with the cable so that you can have a mobile re-programmer with all your favorite settings to swap between.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by tomjasz » Sep 11 2016 4:47pm

Dillenger_Australia wrote:
tomjasz wrote:Hey! Dillinger! I guess since you operate worldwide there's no currency advantages in purchasing these days. I the current available version in the USA programable by the end user? I'd like my specific program parameters instead of presets.

Great idea and implementation. I wish I had seen it sooner.
The Switcheroonie currently does offer one save slot that you can utilize. With this function you are able to upload your coinfig files to the BBS unit with the re-programming cable and then the Switcheroonie can save those settings for future use. The US version has preset settings that emulate the type 1, 2 and 3 e-bike requirements as per the California e-bike regulations as well as some off-road settings that are the same as the settings ES user Keplar recommends.

We are looking to develop a programmer that will allow the user to save a set of pre-configured settings that the user uploads with the cable so that you can have a mobile re-programmer with all your favorite settings to swap between.
In retrospect not all that great for the USA market, but I applaud the work. I'd love to test one, but for $115, it'll have to wait. Thanks for the responses and active participation!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: BBSHD & BBS02 Build Competition for Dillenger Switcheroo

Post by waynebergman » Feb 03 2017 11:11am

Adam, do your newer models support Mac users. My PC has been broken for a while now and I only have a Mac right at present. I would like to make some soft start adjustments for throttle settings and don't want to buy a PC just for this one task. Thanks .........wayne

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