Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Ecyclist » Jun 23 2017 6:04pm

Kepler wrote:With quite a few people going down the Vesc controller path, I thought I would put together an short video on how to program the Vesc to accept an eBike throttle or my button throttle. Pretty straight forward to do but there are a few little tricks that are best demonstrated to make the process a little more straightforward.

Thank you for posting programming VESC throttle tutorial. This is great.
Last edited by Ecyclist on Jun 23 2017 11:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

liamcaff   1 kW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Jun 23 2017 7:11pm

Jestronix wrote:
liamcaff wrote:My Turnigy SK3 6354 motor arrived today from hobbyking.... I paid €56 for the motor, €19 shipping for it to Dublin and then got stung with a further €48 import duty/admin/handling fee with DPD transport. Expensive in the end but looking forward to getting the FOCBOX motor controller to try the motor out.
€48 ! What kind of duty is this ! How come u wear the bill ?

Also where did u get the focbox , I couldn't find any in stock
I know the import bill was crazy. I did a €200 order with hobbyking but this was the only item that wasn't available in the EU, it came from Hong Kong - quicker than the order from the Netherlands! Am going to query the import amount with DPD but don't expect to get anywhere.

I've done a preorder for the FOCBOX. I emailed enertionboards and they said all shipments will leave within 7-14 days of the order but I have a feeling this was a generic response for any item (not for preorder items). The website says they will be available from mid June.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Ecyclist » Jun 24 2017 12:14am

liamcaff wrote:
Jestronix wrote:
liamcaff wrote:My Turnigy SK3 6354 motor arrived today from hobbyking.... I paid €56 for the motor, €19 shipping for it to Dublin and then got stung with a further €48 import duty/admin/handling fee with DPD transport. Expensive in the end but looking forward to getting the FOCBOX motor controller to try the motor out.
€48 ! What kind of duty is this ! How come u wear the bill ?

Also where did u get the focbox , I couldn't find any in stock
I know the import bill was crazy. I did a €200 order with hobbyking but this was the only item that wasn't available in the EU, it came from Hong Kong - quicker than the order from the Netherlands! Am going to query the import amount with DPD but don't expect to get anywhere.

I've done a preorder for the FOCBOX. I emailed enertionboards and they said all shipments will leave within 7-14 days of the order but I have a feeling this was a generic response for any item (not for preorder items). The website says they will be available from mid June.
Next time ask if they can mark it as a gift. I do it for my customers and it works 9 out of 10 times. :D

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jun 24 2017 6:24am

liamcaff wrote:My Turnigy SK3 6354 motor arrived today from hobbyking.... I paid €56 for the motor, €19 shipping for it to Dublin and then got stung with a further €48 import duty/admin/handling fee with DPD transport. Expensive in the end but looking forward to getting the FOCBOX motor controller to try the motor out.
I would challenge that. I've just bought the same motor from HobbyKing - for £50.78. Delivery charge in UK is £5.11. This item is available from the UK warehouse so you shouldn't be paying any import duty/admin/handling fee for a delivery to Ireland. Did you click between the "UK | GLOBAL" options on the website before ordering?.. the 'global' version is slightly cheaper, but I guess it will incur import duty payments.

My VESC board arrived this morning :) Got a relatively good deal from an ebayer.

liamcaff   1 kW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Jun 24 2017 10:37am

Slopes wrote:
liamcaff wrote:My Turnigy SK3 6354 motor arrived today from hobbyking.... I paid €56 for the motor, €19 shipping for it to Dublin and then got stung with a further €48 import duty/admin/handling fee with DPD transport. Expensive in the end but looking forward to getting the FOCBOX motor controller to try the motor out.
I would challenge that. I've just bought the same motor from HobbyKing - for £50.78. Delivery charge in UK is £5.11. This item is available from the UK warehouse so you shouldn't be paying any import duty/admin/handling fee for a delivery to Ireland. Did you click between the "UK | GLOBAL" options on the website before ordering?.. the 'global' version is slightly cheaper, but I guess it will incur import duty payments.

My VESC board arrived this morning :) Got a relatively good deal from an ebayer.
I checked again there. I don't have the option to get this motor from the UK store - only International (Hong Kong) and US appear for me. I'm definitely going to get in touch with DPD though. I should have been charged 20% of the €56 for import duty (around €11) but I don't know where the rest of the €48 for admin/handling fee could have added up to around €37.... Especially after paying the €19 for DPD delivery in the first place....

Anyhow, I'll let you all know how I get on with 'the man' :P

Looking forward to hearing about your build Slopes - keep us updated on it!

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jun 24 2017 11:33am

liamcaff wrote:I checked again there. I don't have the option to get this motor from the UK store - only International (Hong Kong) and US appear for me. I'm definitely going to get in touch with DPD though. I should have been charged 20% of the €56 for import duty (around €11) but I don't know where the rest of the €48 for admin/handling fee could have added up to around €37.... Especially after paying the €19 for DPD delivery in the first place....

Anyhow, I'll let you all know how I get on with 'the man' :P

Looking forward to hearing about your build Slopes - keep us updated on it!
Very strange - I just checked back again and they've definitely got UK stock...
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liamcaff   1 kW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Jun 24 2017 12:31pm

Strange indeed. Must by because my Location is set to Ireland.... still doesn't explain it though

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jul 03 2017 12:03pm

I've got all the components together for building this bike except for the battery - which I've whittled down to two 36v power tool Li-ion options.

I've been looking through Youtube tutorials on the BLDC Tool and have a question about inputs: How do I determine the voltages to enter into 'Voltage Limits' box for the battery pack I buy? This seems straightforward enough for LiPo packs but I'm getting confused with working out the values for Li-ions.

I understand the 'Battery Cutoff Start' figure will be 3.5v per cell multiplied by the number of cells in the pack - but how do I find out how many cells the pack contains? (ie, what its equivalent 'xPyS' values would be)

Assuming the Li-ion contains a BMS - should I just rely on that to safely cutoff the power at low voltage instead of entering any values in the 'Voltage Limits' box in the BLDC Tool?

Any help would be much appreciated as this is the only query holding me back at the moment. Thanks.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by jhotchkissca » Jul 03 2017 2:23pm

Do you have any left?

I'd love to try mounting it on my daily commuter.

Jim Hotchkiss

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Jul 03 2017 8:43pm

Slopes wrote:I've got all the components together for building this bike except for the battery - which I've whittled down to two 36v power tool Li-ion options.

I've been looking through Youtube tutorials on the BLDC Tool and have a question about inputs: How do I determine the voltages to enter into 'Voltage Limits' box for the battery pack I buy? This seems straightforward enough for LiPo packs but I'm getting confused with working out the values for Li-ions.

I understand the 'Battery Cutoff Start' figure will be 3.5v per cell multiplied by the number of cells in the pack - but how do I find out how many cells the pack contains? (ie, what its equivalent 'xPyS' values would be)

Assuming the Li-ion contains a BMS - should I just rely on that to safely cutoff the power at low voltage instead of entering any values in the 'Voltage Limits' box in the BLDC Tool?

Any help would be much appreciated as this is the only query holding me back at the moment. Thanks.
A 36V power tool pack is typically 10S so 3.6V per cell nominal.
I would set Battery cutoff start to 35V and battery cutoff end to 33V.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Jul 03 2017 8:44pm

jhotchkissca wrote:Do you have any left?

I'd love to try mounting it on my daily commuter.

Jim Hotchkiss
My laser cutter has been a bit slow with supply. Should have new stock in a couple of weeks though.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 03 2017 8:49pm

You should use 8ah or more at 36v . Easier on the cells and you can go somewhere more ah is better and easier on the battery pack. As two 4ah packs in parallel.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jul 04 2017 4:51am

Kepler wrote: A 36V power tool pack is typically 10S so 3.6V per cell nominal.
I would set Battery cutoff start to 35V and battery cutoff end to 33V.
LOL - I did wonder if it could be that straightforward :) ... and then I got lost thinking if cells in parallel/Ah, etc, would affect the input values.

This is the battery I'm likely to get. 9.4Ah at 36v would be an ideal pack for me. Husqvarna are respected brand in the power tools world. This one's typically used for chainsaws, mowers and the like. It looks like it might fit in a saddlebag too.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 04 2017 4:08pm

How much for that battery ? I google it 125.00 36v 2.1ah. Cheaper options.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jul 04 2017 4:18pm

999zip999 wrote:How much for that battery ? I google it 125.00 36v 2.1ah. Cheaper options.
9.4Ah €350. In the UK it's about £240. It's a good price I think.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by helno » Jul 16 2017 8:47pm

Finally got to do my first brief ride with this working today.

It is shocking just how fast 500 watts will push a road bike. Probably going to tone that down to 200 watts or so to get some decent range.

Still need to tweak the mounting a bit. Pushbutton throttle works but the 1000 microfarad cap takes way to long to wind down and I think I would prefer to delay to shutdown.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Jul 19 2017 3:40am

Change out the 1000 pf for 470 16V cap. That should do the trick. The 1000 worked well on an ebike controller but the Vesc works better with the 470.

People have a hard time believing 500W is too much on a light road bike. As I have said before, 400W for boost speed and 200W for normal riding is all you need.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jul 20 2017 2:26pm

John - I'm wiring everything together... which is going well. I have a throttle + the appropriate Vesc connector for it (as discussed a couple of pages back). However, my Vesc board has a row of seven pins rather than the six shown in the set-up manual image. Can you direct my towards which three of these seven pins I should be using? Comparison picture below.

BTW - I didn't receive the PDF manual by email when the drive bracket arrived. I've been following the instructions given here and wonder if there's anything in the manual I need to know. Thanks.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Ecyclist » Jul 21 2017 5:49pm

Slopes wrote:John - I'm wiring everything together... which is going well. I have a throttle + the appropriate Vesc connector for it (as discussed a couple of pages back). However, my Vesc board has a row of seven pins rather than the six shown in the set-up manual image. Can you direct my towards which three of these seven pins I should be using? Comparison picture below.

BTW - I didn't receive the PDF manual by email when the drive bracket arrived. I've been following the instructions given here and wonder if there's anything in the manual I need to know. Thanks.
I used 6-pins male. See photo. Male is 1-red, 2-black, 3-white. Board female is 2-red, 3-black, 4-white. Hope that makes sense.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Jul 23 2017 5:51am

Ecyclist wrote: I used 6-pins male. See photo. Male is 1-red, 2-black, 3-white. Board female is 2-red, 3-black, 4-white. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for the info. Mine's wired like that too now and the throttle's working as it should.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by John.Ser » Aug 03 2017 2:11pm

Hi Mr. Kepler, My bike has long chainstays - Any chance you'll be offering a revised bracket later this year more suitable for a "kickstand" mounting options (without the need for more cobbling?) Thanks.

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Slopes » Aug 05 2017 11:30am

I'm having problems getting the friction drive to engage. On twisting the throttle, the motor moves into contact with the tyre - as it should - but then it immediately drops back a little so that the tyre is no longer being driven. This happens even though the motor continues spinning at the same rate. I have to release the throttle and twist it again to get the motor to reengage - but then the same drop-back happens. I've set the gravity spring as tight against the motor as it can be without pushing it forward, and it stays in contact with the motor throughout its movement up into the tyre.

I'm thinking that maybe the distance between the centre of my bottom bracket and the tyre circumference is marginally too great for the drive to function as it should... and the weight of the motor in its more horizontal (engaged) position is too great for the spring to hold in place ???


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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by liamcaff » Aug 05 2017 2:45pm

Don't have a bike to mount it too yet.... but so far so good!

https://goo.gl/photos/XBQL2hWMvrrDK7kX8

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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Aug 05 2017 5:22pm

Looking good. I see Enertion have redesigned the cover for their version of the Vesc. That's a nice improvement.
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Re: Kepler Bottom Bracket Friction Drive For Sale (Finally)

Post by Kepler » Aug 05 2017 5:40pm

Slopes wrote:I'm having problems getting the friction drive to engage. On twisting the throttle, the motor moves into contact with the tyre - as it should - but then it immediately drops back a little so that the tyre is no longer being driven. This happens even though the motor continues spinning at the same rate. I have to release the throttle and twist it again to get the motor to reengage - but then the same drop-back happens. I've set the gravity spring as tight against the motor as it can be without pushing it forward, and it stays in contact with the motor throughout its movement up into the tyre.

I'm thinking that maybe the distance between the centre of my bottom bracket and the tyre circumference is marginally too great for the drive to function as it should... and the weight of the motor in its more horizontal (engaged) position is too great for the spring to hold in place ???
A few minor adjustments needed. See if you can pivot the main bracket forward so the motor is driven into the tire further. 1 or 2mm is all it needs. You need to set up your end stop so when the motor disengages, it just clears the tire. Even if the tire just brushes the motor when disengaged isn't a bad thing as it guarantees easy engagement and it doesn't cause any noticeable drag on the bike. Last thing, it looks like you haven't adjusted your gravity spring to make the motor neutrally weighted. Make sure you have this adjusted correctly as this is important for accurate engagement.

Keep in mind if the bike isn't under load, the drive will drop away straight after it starts. It relies on load to ensure the motor climbs the tire. The more load, the harder it will bite into the tire. You can simulate the load on the test stand by appling the rear brake slightly straight after the drive has started.

The bike you have fitted to the drive too has long chainstays to accommodate a kickstand. This means the drive has been set up right at the end of it adjustment range. Give these changes a go and see how you go. If you dont have any luck, I can look at doing a custom swing arm that is 5mm longer for you. I am placing an order with my laser cutters early next week so let me know if you need it. Because it will be a one off cut, cost will be around $15 plus a few dollars postage.
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