DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 11 2018 11:49am

I know you're going to get a dozen suggestions, but...alongside the 60-piece / 30-cell kits, what I'd most recommend is an additional pre-packaged option of 10-pieces / 5-cells.

Having only those two options would still keep the ordering simple.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by esust » Mar 18 2018 8:37am

i just want to thank the vruzend team for a such very satisfactory customer service and response to my problems.

I bought the battery kit from them a number of months ago and quite frankly it was awful. It just didn't work even after following all the online tutorials. The pieces barely fitted together and regularly broke when fitting the batteries into them. It was just impossible to complete the kit.

I complained to Vruzend and they immediately responded and sent me a new kit but the latest version of it for free of charge. i was a little suspicious that it wouldn't work after my previous problems but managed to build the kit no problem. It only took me just one hour and was very simple.i couldn't believe considering how bad the previous version was.

the new design of the kit is much much much better and i would now after realising how simple it is never consider soldering or spot welding a battery pack. The female and male connections have been re-designed and fit together much more easily.

Thanks again to the Team for such great customer service and a great new product.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by mlt34 » Mar 18 2018 9:36am

spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 11 2018 11:49am
I know you're going to get a dozen suggestions, but...alongside the 60-piece / 30-cell kits, what I'd most recommend is an addotional prepackaged option of 10-pieces / 5-cells.

Having only those two options would still keep the ordering simple.
Thanks for the suggestion Ron, this is actually something we are considering. We avoided it at first to try to keep operations as simple as possible (I'm a big believer in the K.I.S.S method) but now that we are more of a toddler operation than a newborn operation, this is more doable :D
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 18 2018 9:50am

Thanks for the suggestion Ron
If I visit the east coast, you now owe me a beer.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by VRUZEND » Mar 18 2018 11:36am

Hey Guys,

@esust

I have attached your battery pack pic on your behalf. There is a bit of a size limit here.
Thank you for the kind words. I do agree that one batch was not upto the mark but the bright side is that it made us up our game. Infact every problem we face, we try to analyse it and really make efforts to improve it. Like just on the previous page, page 18 we have uploaded a detailed reply highlighting this issue and how the new caps are such an improvement.

@Matador

Hell yeah we did try. The new electrode sits flat against the cell terminal so the maximum surface area is in contact with the cell electrode. It does not go any further than this point. I mean you cannot push your cell into the V2 beyond a certain point and that point is where the cell terminal sits dead flat against internal contact. The stopper does not let the internal contact bend at an angle. So now the whole internal contact is touching the cell terminal instead of just a part of it or a small point. So now if you have a connection there is no doubt its going to be a good connection. Also the new caps V1.5 and V2 make assembly and connection a lot lot easier. Especially the V2 having the stopper makes it a cake walk.

Also due to the stopper the new contact now bounces back up to its initial position. So its a lot lot more springier too.

This reminds me, the V1.5 (spring steel kit) is going to see an upgrade too in the coming months.

Coming back, now using a spring in between did not guarantee the contact sitting flat against the cell electrode and the spring will face some wear and tear, though it wont be a path of energy flow but it will see a lot of movement. What we realized was that the new contact will be a lot more durable and offer better performance than including a spring in between.

Believe me, it was really not easy making the V2. Its not like we throw the spring steel contact out and just replace with copper contacts. We did that and the performance was not satisfactory and there were a few issues too. It was evident its going to take a lot more than just switching the material. Also the present version of the kits kept us on our toes. As I stated earlier this is like the third version for the original kits. Change of bolts-Change of colour-Change of Polymer-One more update in a few months.

Also there was plenty more going on behind the scenes so it did take us some time, longer than it should have, but the results are good, real good. We will have the final numbers in any day now.

Did you guys know we sponsor a race team now!! MLT34 will be covering more on this

@Spinning magents

We did take your advice. Have attached a few pics of a probable prototype packing. Packs will be for 10 cells and 30 cells. The pic is of the 10 cell pack.

We are sorry for taking a bit long to reply to comments here. But we will be a lot more regular with updates now.
Attachments
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V2 prototype booster pack 1.jpeg
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V2 prototype booster pack 2.jpeg
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by 999zip999 » Apr 06 2018 3:50pm

Can anybody estimate the size of a 20s 8p battery pack. Im thinking Samsung 25r and custom serial buss bars. For 80amps set at the controller.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by nifty150 » Apr 06 2018 6:23pm

If you set it up as 8 rows of 20 it should measure 176 x 440 x 93mm as far as just the cells and caps. This is just from the dimensions listed on vruzend's site (https://vruzend.com/faq/#dimensions). You could set this up in a massive number of ways so you will have to do the simple calculation based on your preferences. Also you should account for any BMS, casing or extra stuff being attached to the battery.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by craiggor » Apr 19 2018 4:42pm

Just got my hands on Version 2. The caps fit together much better.Longer posts so you can fit more bus bars if you want.
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by 999zip999 » Apr 21 2018 7:48pm

Nifty 150 Thank you. Is the v2 kit the same dimensions. What is a good material relatively cheap to use for bus bars brass or aluminum 1 series busbar instead of stacking them. Si ?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by nifty150 » Apr 26 2018 11:07am

999zip999 wrote:
Apr 21 2018 7:48pm
Nifty 150 Thank you. Is the v2 kit the same dimensions. What is a good material relatively cheap to use for bus bars brass or aluminum 1 series busbar instead of stacking them. Si ?
The V2 kit should have the same dimensions as the v1.5. the V2 kit comes with nickel plated copper busbars.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by craiggor » Apr 28 2018 5:15am

The posts are 0.8 mm taller than v 1.
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Apr 29 2018 1:45am

Mine came, I’m in for a couple more. They have their place. Great to pull out batteries and have a pack done about the fastest way possible. My V1 24v have worked great for near a year. V2 is a better fit for my LG cells.
Rock on guys, another step forward.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by 999zip999 » May 27 2018 2:34pm

A 20s8p is 440 x 176 x 93. I made a mock up and it's a little long . It hard to imagine to make a triangle pack and to make the bus bars fluid. I guess if I had them in my hands it would be a lot easier. Do you have pictures of triangular Packs and buss bar connections.?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by spinningmagnets » May 27 2018 6:34pm

If you know someone who has one of those child toy vehicles, they are most often using two lead-acid SLA's, for 24V (at low amps). When the lead-acid battery dies, I often see them thrown away. Buying two new SLAs is often just as much as the toy. 12V is hard to match when upgrading to lithium, but...24V works quite well if you replace it with 7S 18650 cells. This is one of the jobs that I feel this kit would really shine at...

xxx
Toy24V.png
1
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 02 2018 1:53pm

Are you on the right or left ? Lots of childern toys and scooters. The local ebike shop has a new full size 48v scooter with dead sla. Even craigslist for free.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 07 2018 9:59am

A question. (Am anal newbie at this)...

Considering "Kirchhoff's Law+...which was explained to me when dirt was made, meant all conductors (wires, bus bars etc) had to be able to carry the same current.

I wonder, since I bought the Vruzend kit and am using to build a 10s3p pack for bike...why the SS, not more conductive material?

Figure, plain copper strand would do, punched through middle to go around posts...would do better or nickel...

If the book (Toll) I have says wires from BMS should connect with all three pack terminals...

Also, if the kit items only connect two, plus, how K's Law squares with SS bolts, caps.buses resistance?

I read this thread and am wondering why SS used instead of nickel or copper (cost notwithstanding)

Just trying to make as efficient as possible...small pack and novice.

I acquired some nickel to use instead of the SS in the kit to max out efficiency.

Am I wacked?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by parabellum » Jun 07 2018 5:05pm

bobbill wrote:
Jun 07 2018 9:59am
.why the SS, not more conductive material?

Figure, plain copper strand would do, punched through middle to go around posts...would do better or nickel...
V2 is nickel plated copper.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 08 2018 8:40am

Is the V2 you mentioned sounds ideal the buss material. I tried to add solder to the kit stuff and would not take, so checked the specs, which said the buss were SS. Which offers a peek at much of my problems...differences...which I find out later...

I have jillions of questions, but look up here and elsewhere for answers, rather than ask on and bother people...

As to above, I ordered some nickel via "AllieX" and expect arrival in a week or so...than will finally build pack and ride bike using it, when weather is conducive to it.

I had good gas rig going and switched to e never guessing how wild a ride it would be...this battery pack deal etc. Hope it gets better after it gets going...prefer less hassle.

I looked up V2 and got nada...got a link. Sounds ideal. Very good. Thanks for the help.
Last edited by bobbill on Jun 08 2018 1:03pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by parabellum » Jun 08 2018 11:30am

https://vruzend.com/product/vruzend-battery-kit-v2-0/
***Currently only available on Kickstarter, where you can pre-order your V2 kit for a discount as part of our launch promotion! Check it out here!***
The VRUZEND V2.0 is our high power battery building kit. The caps are identical in size and shape to our V1.5 kit, but the SS components are upgraded to copper coated with pure nickel for the highest level of conductivity and the best level of corrosion resistance.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 08 2018 1:02pm

I figured that out and thanks. Everytime I tried to order the V2 kit I could not do it.

Moreover, would like to add extra packet of bussbars...

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Jun 08 2018 10:57pm

bobbill wrote:
Jun 08 2018 1:02pm
I figured that out and thanks. Everytime I tried to order the V2 kit I could not do it.

Moreover, would like to add extra packet of bussbars...
Vruzend.com

Email can be imperfect, and the fellas get inundated with email from time to time.
Micah and Urvakhsha both respond reasonably efficiently. If you’re stuck, let me know. I’d surely take the needed steps to hook you up.

Wassup? What are you building? Which cells? Driving which motor and controller?

Seen the commissioners dui ride?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by parabellum » Jun 09 2018 1:34am

I was fortunate to get several kits 2 weeks ago, being Urvakhsha a kind guy to offer them for testing, only got some relevant charger last week, Turnigy Reaktor 1000w 30A. I do not see a way to overpower, by metrics, present copper cross section area with available 30A but I hope I have enough server supply power to melt the enclosure caps this weekend, not said there is any cell that can do it by itself. (V1 kit could handle over 2x of claimed current for historical memory) Plan to start tomorrow, stay tuned.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 09 2018 3:38am

tomjasz wrote:
Jun 08 2018 10:57pm
bobbill wrote:
Jun 08 2018 1:02pm
I figured that out and thanks. Everytime I tried to order the V2 kit I could not do it.

Moreover, would like to add extra packet of bussbars...
Vruzend.com

Email can be imperfect, and the fellas get inundated with email from time to time.
Micah and Urvakhsha both respond reasonably efficiently. If you’re stuck, let me know. I’d surely take the needed steps to hook you up.

Wassup? What are you building? Which cells? Driving which motor and controller?

Seen the commissioners dui ride?
Just the basic 10s3p for a small 36v geared Bafang from Grin...front hub...not serious commuter the 15 miles limit should be enough for me...novice who keeps running into roadblocks, bought early kit, could not get the orange V2...did not know of differences then, and figured out that SS was not the way to go too late...so ordered some nickel from Chien and waiting for arrival...and will alter built to adjust, using caps as received and set up. Tossing the SS buss bars from that kit.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Jun 09 2018 10:21pm

Why toss the bars? You’re not drawing enough power to have a problem. Sorting out appropriate information here can be befuddling. You have fellas that want to run 60v and 40-50A. You’ve got a little 36v, not needing amps at a rate where V1 kit could be a problem. A n00b giveaway, analysis paralysis. Don’t be overwhelmed.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by parabellum » Jun 09 2018 11:23pm

Must say V2 kit is overall higher quality and consistency than V1, good job.
Bus-bars:
0.5x8mm nickel coated copper, 4mm2.
Contact spring:
Contact neck is 0.75x6mm nickel coated copper, 4.5mm2. There is kind of stopper plate on the back side of the contact which is copper to and you will loose some resistance if compressed to the point where stopper sits on the screw head.
Screw and nut:
look like SS but distance to copper is very short. (EDIT: Urvakhsha wrote its Brass-Copper alloy and indeed, I sanded another nut and bolt, they have yellow shimmer I must have overseen at first.)

V values are measured from cells can to the screw of adjacent cell, R is calculated by simple V=IR.

There are 3 values I could separate and I think are relevant:
R per cap, multiply by 2 for a per cell added resistance.

1. 0.0012Ohm/0.035Vx 30A=1.05W of heat. Perfect contact, where compression is enough to press stopper and screw head together + cell-cap sitting flat on the contact.
2. 0.0015Ohm/0.045Vx30A=1.35W of heat. Cell not flat, where compression is enough to press stopper and screw head together but cell-cap is not sitting flat on the contact. (I just moved cell out of right angle)
3. 0.0025Ohm/0.075Vx30A=2.25W of heat. Not compressed completely, stopper and screw-head apart and apparently no flat contact.

My conclusion:
1.There is no 18650 cell, I know, that can sustain discharge/charge long enough to get the V2 cap to vicat.
2.Every 18650 cell I know will produce substantially more heat then Vruzend interconnections. (I used A123 18650 cells)
3.Considering previous, when cells get to the vicat temperature of the caps (cell is the heating element), they will be permanently damaged and venting already.

Mathematically, it is not possible in real world application (real world existing cells) but I will try to simulate a scenario and get those caps melted to see the limit, just need some way to get enough current flow.

Congratulation, extraordinary good job Urvakhsha and Micah !!!

Boring pictures below:
Image
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Contacts V1,V2,V2
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Metal hardware
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Looks like copper under nickel
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Copper stopper.
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Attachments
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V1,V2,V2
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Perfect contact
IMG_20180609_195642.resized.jpg
Cell inclined
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