DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by parabellum » Aug 01 2017 9:21pm

4 V2 kits desired here. :D

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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by tomjasz » Aug 02 2017 12:07am

coolbobjoe wrote:v2 orderer ready to send payment ;)

V1 several months now doing great. Nary a problem. Going to finish new pack soon.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 02 2017 12:47pm

Did anyone arrive at a number for continuous Amps that you can put through the bus bars?
I'm planning to build a 20s5p 72v battery (maybe 2x 10s5p in series using this kit.)
I saw the trick of using a copper wire between the spring and caps to improve current flow.
Have folks used the SS bars for their parallel connects and copper or nickel plated copper bars for their series connections.
I am looking at a build that will probably pull 10A per cell.

Does anyone know what kind of build the V2 will support? Im pretty interested in this system and am thinking about ordering a few boxes for myself

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by leelorr » Aug 02 2017 1:34pm

The USA seller told me that the V1 version is rated by them for about 2.5 amps per cell. I am waiting for V2 because I need about 6 amps per cell as a max draw. I must have missed the post(s) about how to raise that number for the V1 version. Do you have a link to information about that?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 02 2017 2:09pm

No way 10a per cell. Get a spot welder for high power pack. These are for commuter packs. Like your dad or ?

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mlt34   100 kW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by mlt34 » Aug 02 2017 2:50pm

leelorr wrote:The USA seller told me that the V1 version is rated by them for about 2.5 amps per cell. I am waiting for V2 because I need about 6 amps per cell as a max draw. I must have missed the post(s) about how to raise that number for the V1 version. Do you have a link to information about that?
It's actually 3.5A per cell continuous, 5A peak for bursts.

We don't have a firm number for the V2 kit ratings yet, we are still in the development and testing phase.

Regarding the V1 kits, the limit isn't as much the busbars as it is the spring contact. Beefing up the busbars can help a bit, but there's a limit to how much you can pull out of the V1 kit. If you need fairly high power, better to increase the number of parallel groups. For now though, the V1 is really meant for medium power users. Like those with 15A-25A controllers, that are happy with batteries in the 4-7p range. You can do lower p groups, but you start to get higher resistance when not distributing the load over more cells. It works, but more resistances means you waste some cell energy as heat, not ideal for high power scenarios.
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

GlowInTheDarkNinja   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 09 2017 9:06pm

mlt34 wrote:
leelorr wrote:The USA seller told me that the V1 version is rated by them for about 2.5 amps per cell. I am waiting for V2 because I need about 6 amps per cell as a max draw. I must have missed the post(s) about how to raise that number for the V1 version. Do you have a link to information about that?
It's actually 3.5A per cell continuous, 5A peak for bursts.

We don't have a firm number for the V2 kit ratings yet, we are still in the development and testing phase.

Regarding the V1 kits, the limit isn't as much the busbars as it is the spring contact. Beefing up the busbars can help a bit, but there's a limit to how much you can pull out of the V1 kit. If you need fairly high power, better to increase the number of parallel groups. For now though, the V1 is really meant for medium power users. Like those with 15A-25A controllers, that are happy with batteries in the 4-7p range. You can do lower p groups, but you start to get higher resistance when not distributing the load over more cells. It works, but more resistances means you waste some cell energy as heat, not ideal for high power scenarios.
I can't wait to hear the results of the V2 kit. This looks great! I'd really like to try it in the future.

Today I thought over how I would want to design my battery pack again and this is what I came up with for a final design.


100x Cells will go inside generic anti-friction plastic holders (held together with tabs or epoxy)
cells will be configured in 20S6P:
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
parallel and series connects for two parallel sets of cells will be made by a single 26ga piece of copper, with tabs for mounting/balance wire.
All copper connects will have 2mm deep, 9mm diameter, dents to make contact with the cells.
Dents and cells will be scuffed, and maybe some dielectric grease.
1mm x 7mm disc magnets will secure the copper to the batteries, matching poles to the respective side of the cell, and epoxy magnets too the copper.
Tabs from copper contacts will go up in to an insulating mat, and be folded inward, and epoxied in to place.
second layer of matting would be adhered to the previous mat, preventing and contact with anything outside.
This would all be placed in a rugged metal box, lined with insulation, wires would be routed out to bms, mounted to the box.
The box would also have & a hinged, or all latch, lid. so that when then lid is closed it should compress the battery a little extra to ensure good contact.

I hope I described it okay, I could try to draw/model it.
I also though of a way that I could 'fold' my battery in the center, but more insulating mat in between, so that my wires end up on the same side.
helping reduce wire length from my battery to the controller or motor, and making cable management easier.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by cwah » Aug 10 2017 2:45am

What does the v2 look like? I need compact brackets
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by mlt34 » Aug 10 2017 7:55am

cwah wrote:What does the v2 look like? I need compact brackets
Outwardly it will look similar. If you need compact, you shouldn't go with brackets at all, as every bracket adds a bit of space where it holds the cells. Just hot glue your cells together.
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

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DasDouble   100 kW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by DasDouble » Aug 15 2017 11:05am

My order just arrive after exactly 14 week days in Germany. Thanks a lot so fare!

Best regards,

Elias
"..the crazy kid exploring hipower ebike world ^^"
-Built own ebike: ✔
-Built own 3.2kWh LiIon battery (300Amps): ✔
-Overtake Porsche with own Ebike: ✔
-Take off with ebike: ✖

~14kW, 3.2kWh LiIon, QS 205 8ml ff, hubsink

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by venom121212 » Aug 31 2017 4:55pm

One more orderer here once the V2 is ready!

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by Dumsterdave » Sep 03 2017 9:00am

DasDouble wrote:My order just arrive after exactly 14 week days in Germany. Thanks a lot so fare!

Best regards,

Elias
Haha, I read this as 14 weeks!!! Good you didnt have to wait that long :)

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by nathan89 » Sep 16 2017 3:27pm

Just wondering if someone can confirm if the kit comes with 100 or 104 caps? Conflicting info on the website. Need 104 to make 13s4p battery.

Thanks

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by DasDouble » Sep 17 2017 6:15am

Dumsterdave wrote:
DasDouble wrote:My order just arrive after exactly 14 week days in Germany. Thanks a lot so fare!

Best regards,

Elias
Haha, I read this as 14 weeks!!! Good you didnt have to wait that long :)
:wink: :D
"..the crazy kid exploring hipower ebike world ^^"
-Built own ebike: ✔
-Built own 3.2kWh LiIon battery (300Amps): ✔
-Overtake Porsche with own Ebike: ✔
-Take off with ebike: ✖

~14kW, 3.2kWh LiIon, QS 205 8ml ff, hubsink

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by craiggor » Sep 17 2017 10:18am

nathan89 wrote:Just wondering if someone can confirm if the kit comes with 100 or 104 caps? Conflicting info on the website. Need 104 to make 13s4p battery.

Thanks
100 caps,but I got a couple extra in the box.If you ask when ordering I'm sure they will put the extra 4 you need in the box.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 17 2017 11:39am

A little extra money might help out ?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by mlt34 » Sep 18 2017 2:27am

The kits are supposed to come with 100 caps, but we started putting 104 in the box so users have some extra, and since so many people wanted to do 52 cell packs. We had to draw the line somewhere though, because 56 cells packs are also common, as are 60 cell packs, and 65 cells, and 69, and 70, and 78.... You get the point.
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by TheBeastie » Sep 18 2017 3:25am

mlt34 wrote:The kits are supposed to come with 100 caps, but we started putting 104 in the box so users have some extra, and since so many people wanted to do 52 cell packs. We had to draw the line somewhere though, because 56 cells packs are also common, as are 60 cell packs, and 65 cells, and 69, and 70, and 78.... You get the point.
Yeah thats the problem I saw.
I want to build a 18S P4 pack which equals 72. So about 1/3rd of the caps I would buy go unused if I have to buy 2 104 packs.
I was thinking that should bag them up into smaller amounts like 12 per bag.. I could order 12 bags and have the exact amount I need.
Last edited by TheBeastie on Sep 18 2017 6:31am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by Buk___ » Sep 18 2017 5:47am

Matador wrote:The major strength of this pack is its ability to maintain spring action for each and every cell completely independently. I have not seen many packs designed like that. But I can see some major advantages (If, for one reason or another, one spring doesn’t make contact anymore, the other spring contacts are not affected and can still maintain their function). I think designing a pack with “individual suspensions springs” is a great challenge, even more so with highly conductive metals like copper, which is too soft to offer enough spring recoil. I love the concept of individual springs. This is one of the reasons that I’m very enthousiast about the Vruzend Pack. So I decided to encourage this product even considering my previous experience with my own design pack. Also, this solderless pack is fully costumisable, you can assemble it in the shape and size wou want (triangle, tube like, square, rectangle, 8-figure, name it LOL).
Thnk how much easier this would be if the cells came with (say) a 5mm deep, M2 thread stamped into each end cap!

One these and one of these. Job done.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by optimistx » Oct 04 2017 11:14am

The Vruzend kit arrived in 17 days, good. Red and blue colors were a pleasant surprise.

I tried to assemble a most simple 10s1p setup to measure resistances, and try balancing with my imaxB6 balancing charger. I had read somewhere that balancing might be a problem with this set.

How to attach balancing wires well? In an ebikeschooll youtube video balancing wires were simply pressed under the bus bar, against plastic part and bolt threads, half a rotation. Any better idea? (soldering simply to the bus bar did not succeed , separate flux was not available. That might be the reason?)

When trying to disassemble the bus bars, nuts and bolts there was a problem: I could not loosen the nuts! The bolt rotated and the nut stayed in place. The same happened when I tried to turn the nut more tightly to press the balancing wire well.

Surprise! Look the attached image. What did the designer think? Or I have not understood the idea correctly.
vruzend_thoughts.jpg
vruzend_thoughts.jpg (71.57 KiB) Viewed 2273 times
Temporarily the problem could perhaps be solved by putting epoxy glue between the head of the bolt and the main metallic part for all the parts immediately when the kit arrived. (or better they could do something in India?)

Another surprise was how little spring action there was: it was very easy to lift the "cover" (or lid or ..."), and it would go back only 1-2 millimeters. The pressure against the 18650 cell might vary very much between cells. What about putting some rubber (or ...?) under the lid to guarantee that there would be much pressure against the cell?

The Vruzend kit is fascinating and I really hope it will be a success.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by optimistx » Oct 05 2017 2:11am

Epoxy glue all over around the head of the bolt might be a really bad idea, because it might function as an isolation, a high resistance layer. So I am thinking of using the glue only one small drop at the perimeter. Hopefully somebody comes with a better idea.

By the way, pushing hard with a finger did not work. The bolt is slippery. Therefore I used sandpaper and a wooden stick to push hard. But these tricks do not encourage the reusability of the kit, they are extremely slow to use. E.g. to attach one wire under the nut and busbar would require to take the cell and red/blue thingies apart, work with the nut and assemble the parts again. It may take half an hour to do that carefully in a vice, preparations included. The "fishtail" parts require gentle handling else they can become unusable.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by craiggor » Oct 05 2017 5:59am

optimistx wrote:Epoxy glue all over around the head of the bolt might be a really bad idea, because it might function as an isolation, a high resistance layer. So I am thinking of using the glue only one small drop at the perimeter. Hopefully somebody comes with a better idea.

By the way, pushing hard with a finger did not work. The bolt is slippery. Therefore I used sandpaper and a wooden stick to push hard. But these tricks do not encourage the reusability of the kit, they are extremely slow to use. E.g. to attach one wire under the nut and busbar would require to take the cell and red/blue thingies apart, work with the nut and assemble the parts again. It may take half an hour to do that carefully in a vice, preparations included. The "fishtail" parts require gentle handling else they can become unusable.
Mine have a hexagonal pattern in the metal.Do you have a bad batch?Image

Sent from my MTK8382 using Tapatalk

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by 999zip999 » Oct 05 2017 9:45pm

Thank you these is how we push thru ES. Great pics. I do see those corner lock's in first photo ? Optimiz . What's up no corner locks in the plastic?

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by optimistx » Oct 06 2017 3:10am

craiggor's excellent enlarged image made me first think that Vruzend had simply forgotten to stamp a hexagonal pattern to my kit.

But it was not so.

I opened several modules. Every module has at least a faint shallow hexagonal pattern in the metal part, and some modules not so faint.

Some patterns really worked as expected: the nut could be tightened wholly and then removed, tightened again etc. But some did not: the bolt rotated together with the nut. It rotated even when I pushed the bolt head (from the cell side) as hard as I could with my fingers. Failed.

The hole in the metal part is in some modules so small that the threads of the bolt follow it; it is very difficult to push the bolt in place without rotating it. But in some other modules the bolt goes there easily without rotating. Could this be reason for the problem? I have to examine it more. The plastic part is very thin, and the hole in it probably has nothing to do with this failure.

How much of the bolt is visible varies, and quite many have the bolt oblique, not straight. The plastic parts have defects. About 30 parts which I have examined this far 10 are not so carefully made. Quality control ... (most defects probably are aesthetic only).

I have yesterday mailed the link of this discussion to Vruzend.

Glueing with epoxy keeps the parts in place as expected, but I have to measure the resistance. Very enthusiastic to proceed!

999zip999 saw the very faint hexagonal pattern in my image, correctly! I had thought that it was caused by the bolt in tightening it.But I did not quite understand the question "What's up no corner locks in the plastic?"

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Solderin

Post by optimistx » Oct 07 2017 2:28am

Vruzend answered my mail in a very friendly and informative tone. They have had problems with the process, and asked how many of the parts have had problems.
I'll do that.

Now I have seen that this thread is for "Items for sale"! It might be better to discuss the properties of the product elsewhere?

Anyhow, my test with glued 1p10s battery has gone well this far. My hobby charger/balancer Imaxb6 discharged/charged/balanced the cells well.

I was surprised how much force is needed to push to caps around cells to have 44 mm of the cell side visible. Without measuring I would not have dared to press so hard. I needed a continuation arm for my clamp, with wooden pieces around the kit.

It is pleasure to deal with Vruzend and I hope that this product becomes a success worldwide.

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