DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

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bobbill   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 10 2018 2:06am

tomjasz wrote:
Jun 09 2018 10:21pm
Why toss the bars? You’re not drawing enough power to have a problem. Sorting out appropriate information here can be befuddling. You have fellas that want to run 60v and 40-50A. You’ve got a little 36v, not needing amps at a rate where V1 kit could be a problem. A n00b giveaway, analysis paralysis. Don’t be overwhelmed.
You are right...am too anal...and the item is whimpy enough no problem...spin off from some other doings...and its the first one. In for a penny, in for a pound is not always the best, but...and it is overwhelming at first.

Good points!

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Jun 10 2018 4:06am

bobbill wrote:
Jun 10 2018 2:06am
tomjasz wrote:
Jun 09 2018 10:21pm
Why toss the bars? You’re not drawing enough power to have a problem. Sorting out appropriate information here can be befuddling. You have fellas that want to run 60v and 40-50A. You’ve got a little 36v, not needing amps at a rate where V1 kit could be a problem. A n00b giveaway, analysis paralysis. Don’t be overwhelmed.
You are right...am too anal...and the item is whimpy enough no problem...spin off from some other doings...and its the first one. In for a penny, in for a pound is not always the best, but...and it is overwhelming at first.

Good points!
Which cells will you use?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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bobbill   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 10 2018 6:19am

Panasonic PF 2900 ah jobbers...which was recommended here...buying blind, of course. Spendy suckers. Bought some nickel, to replace kit busses and forgot about ss in caps, so that was another mistake...lot of mistakes. High learning curve seems unproductive, but as I said, in for a penny, in for a pound...and all I wanted to do is get up hill to home...on hot summer days.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by parabellum » Jun 10 2018 11:38am

Edit to review: Bolt and Nut is alloy of brass an copper

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bobbill   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 10 2018 12:45pm

In the older kit? Thanks...

Am back in business (tidy me) with old kit, plus nickel I have on way. if I understand how the (Kircchner thingy) metals do it....

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Jun 11 2018 12:55am

bobbill wrote:
Jun 10 2018 6:19am
Panasonic PF 2900 ah jobbers...which was recommended here...buying blind, of course. Spendy suckers. Bought some nickel, to replace kit busses and forgot about ss in caps, so that was another mistake...lot of mistakes. High learning curve seems unproductive, but as I said, in for a penny, in for a pound...and all I wanted to do is get up hill to home...on hot summer days.
From where? Should have been around $2.50 each plus shipping.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608&hilit=Tumich
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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bobbill   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Jun 11 2018 1:47am

Thanks...Some battery place noted here, these were new, like the green Panisonic NCR PF 2900ah in pics. I think price was close...maybe around 3-$coots shipped.

Was more interested in getting clean new items at time...blind buying...the sophistication has widened since, but it's done.

Now, awaiting the new tabs busses and tie it all together, once I figure out what to do with the controller...bag the battery and hang controller on bag someplace...probably. Bike is a Xootr and want to keep it all small.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 11 2018 10:17am

If someone is curious about these, but are hesitant to purchase a full kit before you can test them in your application, I have some I can send anyone here for free to test. Just pay shipping. Four cell pairs can provide 12V, and that should be enough to test this style.

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BlueSwordM   100 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by BlueSwordM » Jul 23 2018 6:13pm

I do have an interesting question for Vruzend and Micah though.

I'm a new user too, so hi everybody!

For the spring material, couldn't we have used phosphor bronze C54400 19% IACS, beryllium copper C17530 38% IACS, or even better for the best compromise between conductivity and yield strength, BeCu C17200 22% IACS?

That last one is essentially very interesting since its yield strength, when heat treated and hardened, can reach a yield strength of almost that of stainless steel, while having 4-5x its conductivity. Having high yield strength, meaning resistance to plastic deformation is almost as good as steel, is what really matters in a spring.

All of the previously mentioned materials could be used, the highest performance one being BeCu C17530 38% IACS, having the highest yield strength relative to its conductivity, because using something like BeCu C17500 45% IACS would be tempting, but its yield strength is quite poor compared to all the other materials.

That would have made prototyping Matador's idea much more interesting, since you would not need to bypass the springs for high currents, and still retained high springyness.

Would be an interesting idea to implement if you could, as you could make a 10A capable version using BeCu/Phosphor Bronze, and a 20A capable version using nickel plated copper.

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BlueSwordM   100 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by BlueSwordM » Jul 23 2018 6:16pm

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by BlueSwordM » Jul 23 2018 6:20pm

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by BlueSwordM » Jul 23 2018 6:27pm

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by BlueSwordM » Jul 23 2018 7:17pm

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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by riba2233 » Oct 16 2018 11:30am

sooo... Nobody posted this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUmlCH7bTO8


:mrgreen:
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by tomjasz » Oct 18 2018 6:06am

What a fool!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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bobbill   10 mW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by bobbill » Oct 18 2018 6:21am

I am not so sure I "get it" but I bought and assembled the second (black/orange) kit from Mikah to add to the first to extend range etc.

I think, the kit is excellent. copper...etc.

The first kit I replaced the buss bars with strips of nickel, as I found out they were coated and would not take solder. Might be overkill, but am not too versed in this stuff, so... Any way,

The kit was short some buss bars and had two broken caps (screw welds parted) but there were just enough extra caps to make it work.

Mikcah quickly replace the missing buss bars...

FWIW, I think SS for the nuts would work fine with the kits, as the nuts are only fasteners, not conductors.

The two extra (for me) wire connectors offer two more buss bars, if clipped, but did not need, so will hold, in case.

All sits awaiting warm, dry weather to cruise (I did not install cells as yet in case weather here (Mn) stays cold til spring.'

I think, for what I need, kits are perfect.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by VRUZEND » Jun 21 2019 2:25am

Hey Guys,

Thank you all for the continued support and faith.

We recently launched the new V2.1 and V1.6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rylbFnTgFI8&t=18s

The kit has been beta tested on some real cool projects including a paramotor!

Every year we strive to improve and make further changes to take it to the next level.

Do note the caps are longer, not bigger. The cells sit in deeper so the friction forces onto the cells is more hence the caps just dont slide off, not even a bit. There was an issue with panasonics 18650B sliding back out on the positive side due to the tapered edge. So that has been completely resolved.

There is no need for sandwich plates with the new V2.1 and V1.6 versions.

The barrels hold down onto the caps and the bus bars act as a wire mesh giving additional structural support to the pack preventing the caps from moving about.

This time we beta tested it with some real cool projects which are shown in the video. Its taken a lot of effort from our side to bring about the changes.

Thanks a lot to all of you for always supporting us. We have taken every feedback till date very seriously. And this has allowed us to strive for improvements.

We shall with your continued support keep improving and giving our best to this community.

Thank you so very much you all.

Cheers.
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kamiKAZIK   1 µW

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by kamiKAZIK » Jun 21 2019 9:11am

I've been using a battery pack using these, v1.5 to be specific, in my DIY electric scooter for roughly 7 months. All was splendid till one day it started shutting down out of the blue. I started pulling everything apart, checking BMS, checking controller.

Controller is fine, BMS though was showing some weird values, it was clear that something wrong was either with BMS or the battery. I've tested the BMS and it seemed to be working properly, then I started to disassemble my battery (10s4p) and holly fu... About ~70% of the caps had cracks, those at the edges of the pack didn't even made a proper contact with the battery.

A warning to those who consider these when building a pack for a bike or scooter. I don't think these were made to withstand constant vibrations. For stationary applications these might be great as they can give lots of flexibility, but where sturdiness is required, these don't seem to last very long.

So here I am. With a handful of broken caps and probably some damaged battery cells, still need to check every single one of them.
Does anyone know of any other solderless battery systems? Any suggestions? I was looking at NESE and those seem to look much more reliable than these and similar systems.

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by VRUZEND » Jun 21 2019 11:04am

kamiKAZIK wrote:
Jun 21 2019 9:11am
I've been using a battery pack using these, v1.5 to be specific, in my DIY electric scooter for roughly 7 months. All was splendid till one day it started shutting down out of the blue. I started pulling everything apart, checking BMS, checking controller.

Controller is fine, BMS though was showing some weird values, it was clear that something wrong was either with BMS or the battery. I've tested the BMS and it seemed to be working properly, then I started to disassemble my battery (10s4p) and holly fu... About ~70% of the caps had cracks, those at the edges of the pack didn't even made a proper contact with the battery.

A warning to those who consider these when building a pack for a bike or scooter. I don't think these were made to withstand constant vibrations. For stationary applications these might be great as they can give lots of flexibility, but where sturdiness is required, these don't seem to last very long.

So here I am. With a handful of broken caps and probably some damaged battery cells, still need to check every single one of them.
Does anyone know of any other solderless battery systems? Any suggestions? I was looking at NESE and those seem to look much more reliable than these and similar systems.
Hey,

Thanks for coming out in the open. The composition for the V1.5 was changed twice. In fact the caps themselves were changed twice. Initially they were similar to the V1 version, we upgraded them to the V2.0 caps without changing the V1.5 nomenclature. It was after the launch of V2.0 that we once again changed the polymer composition making the caps a lot more resilient to elements. Further,we continuously carry out R&D and lab tests on the polymer and components we use. Micah had specifically addressed this cracking issue in one of his videos a while back and had asked anyone having a cracking issue to write to us. if you go through maybe page 17-19 of this thread you will see it has been mentioned here too.

I can more than assure you these are built to last. We have a simple refund/replacement policy. if there is an issue with the kit you have got please write back to us as you are entitled to a full refund/replacement.

Infact having this policy in place has enabled us to grow faster and learn more. When people are aware that the kits are readily replaced or money is refunded without opening a paypal dispute they tend to be more cooperative and descriptive of the issue. As well as a lot more supportive.

I request you to drop us a mail at vruzend(at)gmail(dot)com and you will be given a full replacement/refund.

We once more request anyone reading this thread who may have had a similar experience to reach out to us so we can make it up to you.

We are forever indebted to the DIY community here, and shall always strive for improvements which is evident from our yearly upgrades and improvements as well as our customer relation policy.

I sincerely look forward towards receiving an email from you. if possible do attach some pics too as pics always help us to study the issue at hand and bring about more changes.

If there is anything else just hit us up.
Cheers.

PS- This is exactly why the V2.1 and V1.6 were beta tested on projects that would push them to their limit, mainly a formula E race car, a solar car and a paramotor (there is a paramotor video too that we will be coming out with shortly)

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by kamiKAZIK » Jun 21 2019 11:38am

Sure, I'll drop an email. I've place some pics here as well for the future reference. I've already ordered 10 4P NESE modules as those seem to be more sturdy and can be easily waterproofed as well.

It seems that all caps break at more or less same spots - at the edges. The weak place seems to be the joint groves, the plastic is thinner in those places and can't handle the tension and vibration forces. I really wanted to like this project, assembly is super easy, connecting stuff with screws is very comfortable, but the cap material, at least for v1.5 isn't suitable for not so friendly operating conditions. As an improvement, there could be some kind of metal ring on the cap as a support to cope with tensions and constant shaking. or the cap should be made from something more durable with rubber sleeve for snug fit.


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VRUZEND   1 W

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Re: DIY assembly kit for 18650 without spot welding/Soldering

Post by VRUZEND » Jun 21 2019 12:39pm

Hey,

Do you see how the caps are stouter than the newer ones. The inside contact dimensions and the way it was formed into shape was different too.

We make a lot of changes regularly without actually announcing it because we are always receiving feedback and we work on it tirelessly. The issue that you are reporting was reported right when we changed the old original colored caps (which had the vruzend marking on them) to these ones. We not only changed the polymer as I mentioned earlier but also changed the contact.

This resulted in the contact not gouging out the walls upon insertion and also the new polymer mix made the caps stretchable, like rubber. or rather flexible would be a better word to describe it.

Infact the V1.5 provided us will a lot of helpful feedback before the launch of the V2.0 via the kickstarter. And as I said we improve on a daily basis. No 2 lots are ever the same. We are constantly tinkering and changing something.

In our testing we actually insert 19mm tubes into the cap to mimic cells. We actually push the caps to their limit to know their failure point as well as % of defects across a lot.

Since we appreciate everyone who has supported us in our journey from day one we have had a policy in place to reimburse in full to anyone who receives a kit thats not upto the mark. And we have stayed true to that.

So kindly drop me a mail with your name and address along with your order details for the number of kits purchased so we can have a replacement sent over.

PS- As a norm our replacements are almost always a slight upgrade. In your case it will be the V1.6 which is not yet up for sale.

PPS- This is also why this time we beta tested it on projects where the kits would be pushed to their limit before sending them out.

If there is any other way we can assist you in please so let us know.

Cheers.

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