Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

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Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Jun 20, 2017 8:35 pm

Finally, after a lot of R&D, trials and errors, we are glad to offer battery packs that, in our humble opinion, every owner of ebikes with a monocoque frame will want to have. ;)

Let's see why:

- Size matters. With dimensions being only 270 x 190 x 137 mm,this pack is specifically designed to fit 140mm wide frames like Qulbix raptor 140, Enduro, Vector, and other similar ones with lots of space left to spare. As seen on the picture below, in the EEB frame, there is a space left for controller and wiring. This was possible due to hive/hex placement of cells, however, without compromising safety (there is about 2mm air gap between cells so no cells are touching any adjacent ones).

- Obviously, high capacity of the pack - 3360Wh. Depending on total weight of your bike and other parameters, this pack should provide around 50 miles of electric-only cruising at normal/usable speeds. "Normal" being defied as speeds like 35-50mph. At 20 mph, however, 100 miles of range is possible.

- Best of breed cells. We use cells with best gravi/volu metric specs commercially available today, i.e 3.5Ah 18650 cells. $1699 - is the price for a pack with Samsung INR18650-35E 3500mah 10A cells and there is an option with Panasonic/Sanyo GA cells for $150 extra.

- Higher voltage with 26s arrangement is used for better efficiencies, i.e. lower losses in conductors and faster charging. That's not to mention that you get extra boost in speed (compare 109v vs. 84v in commonly used 20s packs);

- 100A peak discharge rate. That means over 10kw of peak power output;

- Thick 8AWG silicon wires for the load;

- Optionally available regular BMS ($100) or smart BMS ($150) allowing wireless/Bluetooth cell-level voltage monitoring, configuring LVC/HVC, has four temperature probes that can be used to monitor temperature on a controller or the pack itself and disconnect the load to prevent overheating. We are currently working on the software for Android and iOS, so it will be available as a download once completed. We figured that some people may want to use their own BMS or skip it altogether, hence BMS is an add-on.

- Charger options: 5A standard charger - $120. We will also supply ready to use fast chargers based on two Eltek S 1800W flatpacks (pricing will be available later). Based on our testing, Elteks recharge the pack from empty in 1.5 hours or less.

There you have it. Packs will be made to order to start with but be filling the stock as production ramps up.
Will be adding more info as it becomes available.
26s_96v_3_3kwh-s.jpg
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26s_in_frame.jpg
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Last edited by Powervelocity.com on Dec 26, 2017 4:53 pm, edited 8 times in total.




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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 11, 2017 2:04 pm

I am actually looking for a non balancing BMS for 26s for a lifepo4 battery so that it has a lvc (cell level) that integrates over Bluetooth to an app. I prefer to bottom balance so I'd like a hvc cell level to shut off the charger when the first cell is full. BMS's for lifepo4 tend to kill cells hence the bottom balancing and the close monitoring will give me more confidence riding with my pack and charging it on my Emax 90s. If I could have it all in the same app I may swap over to the power velocity controller too.
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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Sep 11, 2017 5:05 pm

The BMS allows to set the voltage at which it will balance. You can also set whether to balance only during charging or off the charger as well. So, technically, if you set the balance voltage too high, it will never balance. You can also set the tolerance at which it will start balancing. So, if tolerance is set to be too big, to virtually do no balancing.

What I do, is set balancing only to occur during charging and only at 4.1V per cell (I charge to 4.12v per cell max), so balancing occurs only at the last few minutes of charging and stops as soon as I disconnect from charging. That I way I keep them balanced between charges but not really straining them. Plus, the pack is taking care of itself, I don't even need to think about it.

Integration of BMS monitoring with the app is coming. I'll push it as much as I can.
whereswally606 wrote:I am actually looking for a non balancing BMS for 26s for a lifepo4 battery so that it has a lvc (cell level) that integrates over Bluetooth to an app. I prefer to bottom balance so I'd like a hvc cell level to shut off the charger when the first cell is full. BMS's for lifepo4 tend to kill cells hence the bottom balancing and the close monitoring will give me more confidence riding with my pack and charging it on my Emax 90s. If I could have it all in the same app I may swap over to the power velocity controller too.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by abahanad » Sep 12, 2017 4:23 am

I wish you made these packs with higher discharge rates (200~300) amps within close size i would have bought 2 !.
Best of luck .

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 12, 2017 8:58 am

Thanks for the reply power velocity. I figure if you can set the balance point in software there will be a possible output on the PCB either an led or a pin where voltage goes high which one could use (circuit bend) to have a relay switch off the attached charger. It is looking very promising. Can you pm me when you have the app finished so I can test. And how much would the BMS alone retail for to the UK

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Sep 12, 2017 12:34 pm

That would have to be lipos and their volu/gravimetric characteristics are inferior compared to cylinder cells, hence, less capacity/range for the same size and weight.
This is not to mentioned increased safety risks and shorter life of the cells.

Just parallel two of these packs and you get your 200-300A. ;)
abahanad wrote:I wish you made these packs with higher discharge rates (200~300) amps within close size i would have bought 2 !.
Best of luck .

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Sep 12, 2017 12:36 pm

Most BMSs, including this one, are already designed to shut off charging current once the cells hit a certain predefined values, like 4.2V or whatever.
You don't have to mess with relays o other ad-hoc solutions, it's already there for you.
whereswally606 wrote:Thanks for the reply power velocity. I figure if you can set the balance point in software there will be a possible output on the PCB either an led or a pin where voltage goes high which one could use (circuit bend) to have a relay switch off the attached charger. It is looking very promising. Can you pm me when you have the app finished so I can test. And how much would the BMS alone retail for to the UK

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 12, 2017 1:28 pm

How about using the Samsung 25r 20amp cell. Compromise weigh for power lost ah, but power ?


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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by abahanad » Sep 13, 2017 6:17 am

Powervelocity.com wrote:That would have to be lipos and their volu/gravimetric characteristics are inferior compared to cylinder cells, hence, less capacity/range for the same size and weight.
This is not to mentioned increased safety risks and shorter life of the cells.

Just parallel two of these packs and you get your 200-300A. ;)
abahanad wrote:I wish you made these packs with higher discharge rates (200~300) amps within close size i would have bought 2 !.
Best of luck .
the question isnt to parallel them or not the question is will they fit without looking ridiculous lol.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Sep 13, 2017 9:47 am

200-300A can be done in exactly the same package. I just didn't think about using 20 or 30A cells.
abahanad wrote:
Powervelocity.com wrote:That would have to be lipos and their volu/gravimetric characteristics are inferior compared to cylinder cells, hence, less capacity/range for the same size and weight.
This is not to mentioned increased safety risks and shorter life of the cells.

Just parallel two of these packs and you get your 200-300A. ;)
abahanad wrote:I wish you made these packs with higher discharge rates (200~300) amps within close size i would have bought 2 !.
Best of luck .
the question isnt to parallel them or not the question is will they fit without looking ridiculous lol.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 13, 2017 11:57 am

Powervelocity.com wrote:Most BMSs, including this one, are already designed to shut off charging current once the cells hit a certain predefined values, like 4.2V or whatever.
You don't have to mess with relays o other ad-hoc solutions, it's already there for you.
The cells or the first cell? Most bms tend to keep charging till all cells hit a hvc and bleed the top cells off with bleed resistors because they top balance. When you bottom balance you don't want to put in more energy than the least capacity cell can handle so you want the cut off to be the first cell to fill up ie hits your cell level hvc. Is this what your does? I doubt it if it's designed for li ion (non lifepo4) top balancing. Also shutting off a charger with a relay is better that the BMS cutting the output/input since your charger isn't wasting energy by being on when your battery is full.
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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Sep 14, 2017 12:19 pm

With this BMS, you have the ability to set up pretty much any voltage level when balancing should kick in, I don't see any issues stemming from the situation you are describing. Set balancing at 4.1v and only during charging and you are good. No excessive (or any) balancing when you run the vehicle or when unused. Connect it to the charger and it starts balancing at 4.1V. Which cell is ahead and which one is behind doesn't matter. You don't overcharge any of them.

About relay. Yes, it will work but adds unnecessary complexity. One of the BMS's primary function is to cut the charge when the battery fills up. The charger will go into CV stage. At that moment you are not really using or wasting much energy. Well maybe 0.1A or so. The chargers and BMSes are designed to remain plugged in for prolonged period of time if necessary. You don't need to rush to disconnect the charger immediately once the battery is full. This is not to say that it is a good idea to charge the battery without supervision.
whereswally606 wrote:
Powervelocity.com wrote:Most BMSs, including this one, are already designed to shut off charging current once the cells hit a certain predefined values, like 4.2V or whatever.
You don't have to mess with relays o other ad-hoc solutions, it's already there for you.
The cells or the first cell? Most bms tend to keep charging till all cells hit a hvc and bleed the top cells off with bleed resistors because they top balance. When you bottom balance you don't want to put in more energy than the least capacity cell can handle so you want the cut off to be the first cell to fill up ie hits your cell level hvc. Is this what your does? I doubt it if it's designed for li ion (non lifepo4) top balancing. Also shutting off a charger with a relay is better that the BMS cutting the output/input since your charger isn't wasting energy by being on when your battery is full.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 14, 2017 4:34 pm

Do not bottom balance as that is more complicated. And a bms will work fine. It's ok on paper if and more if's plus you have to do this and this. The bottom balancing was shot down to many times on ES and to hear about again ? Why go down the hard road. Make an ez and long lasting solution.
Ok chose 4 of the cells that may meet you needs and find out. Run them in circles.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 15, 2017 6:25 am

Bottom balancing is better for lifepo4 when done properly. BMS systems tend to kill lifepo4 rather fast. That is why. I agree it's been shot down alot on es but I don't think they were right since too many people lump the two (li ion and lifepo4) together without really seeing that they charge very differently. (In reference to the voltage changes per energy in). Cant be bothered arguing it past here so I won't respond to a difference of opinion. You can have yours I'll have mine.

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 15, 2017 1:22 pm

I thought we were talking 18650. But my A123 20ah has 1,054 cycles 4.5 yrs bacause it's 20ah I can ez monitor without a bms . so for the public a bms is a must have. Hvc lvc and cell balancing .

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Mywpn » Jan 08, 2018 2:55 pm

Do you make a controller capable of up to 180v, with a max discharge of up to 350-400 battery amps.


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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Mywpn » Jan 09, 2018 6:52 am

No plans in the future by any chance?


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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Mywpn » Jan 10, 2018 4:45 am

To be honest just an electrIc enduro eeb with a QS273

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Re: Compact 26s 109v/35Ah/3.3kWh/10kw packs for power&range

Post by Powervelocity.com » Jan 10, 2018 11:55 am

Yes, honesty is a great virtue and much appreciated ;)
But 180v and 400 battery amps is really an overkill even for QS273. 200A is probably the most it can sustain before failure.
Are you sure you are talking about 400A battery amps, not phase amps?
Mywpn wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 4:45 am
To be honest just an electrIc enduro eeb with a QS273

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