Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

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Alex Imreh
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Alex Imreh » Oct 19, 2017 2:16 am

Why make shipping by air at 700usd? Shipping by sea will be less than 100usd, i got this quotation for 2 heavier ebikes,
- China to Slovenian port Koper, 150usd for 2 samples!!
Shipping size for FireFly is 1650mm X 850mm X 310mm, gross weight 55kg.
Shipping by land from Spain to Romania i paid around 150$, for Bultaco Brinco, bigger box/packing.
But truth is nobody will do distribution job for free. A good shipping agent could do most of the job,
than each end-user could make his own customs, in his own country, probably no more than 20% in EU countries.
So if many bikes, group import i say better by sea.

But maybe there is one more way to do this.
Now if shipping is done by air than I confirm the above cost, volume weight will be 87kg more than 55kg weight.
Maybe I can arrange shipping by air door to door with EU custom clearance, each client will pay his own bike to the factory.
Total cost, FOB price + this kind of shipping can be best, I try to talk that with my shipping agent.
MSDS stands for Material Safety Data Sheet. Maybe battery can be sent separately?..
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Oct 21, 2017 12:33 pm

Guys we are testing 60 v version bike for a week now. I will let you know on a next week the news. I hope they will do the changes we want (right now bike has many nessesary improvements) and will calculate the price. For now I can say price will be around 2600euro , shipping will be around 95euro for europe(100kg with wooden box), +19%VAT if you live in EU and you not buying it for company. Also we might do a street sertification (45km/h 4kw), around 400-500euro per bike.

I will start taking preorders in around 2 weeks. Sure you will get warranty from me as a distributor. I will do everything with my company in Munich.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by SlowCo » Oct 21, 2017 12:53 pm

Artur, I hope you will post a full review including disclosure of the suggested changes you proposed to Sur-Ron. I didn't participate in the initial group buy as I first would like to learn more about the quality and performance of the bike. If you are able to offer the 60V version for around the €3200,- incl VAT shipped to my door as you write I might be a buyer this time around.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Oct 21, 2017 2:13 pm

SlowCo wrote:Artur, I hope you will post a full review including disclosure of the suggested changes you proposed to Sur-Ron. I didn't participate in the initial group buy as I first would like to learn more about the quality and performance of the bike. If you are able to offer the 60V version for around the €3200,- incl VAT shipped to my door as you write I might be a buyer this time around.
Absolutely, right now we are still in a proces of testing stock and modified parts and negotiation with guys about this changes and costs.. so make sure you will be the first guys who get complete review and testing footage when we have agreements with Chinese side. The price you told is what we planing to get, from my experience it will be a lot of hidden fees during making all the documents, that's why it is few hundreds more then we heard from very start. But if I will do it for 50 bikes it will be much less then you would pay for each individually, that's already well tested on other products we import.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by brumbrum » Oct 21, 2017 3:14 pm

This is great news Artur. Good luck with importing these to Europe, and i hope you are able to keep the final price down for endless sphere users. 8)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 12, 2017 1:39 pm


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Aebrennan » Nov 12, 2017 2:27 pm

Artur thank you for your information.
Can you please advise if you have tested their apparently updated version?
I questioned the supplier regarding the noise after seeing the video of the bike in the USA, and I have been assured that the bikes that are coming to Australia have revised controller settings and are much quieter than the bikes sent to the USA.
It’s also disappointing to hear the battery pack may be another issue, but if it is a bms problem should be easy to rectify!
Please keep us updated with your progress.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by macribs » Nov 12, 2017 2:32 pm

What about the geometry of the bike? How does it ride and handles?
Glad you posted this video.

Well I guess one way to solve these problems would be to ask the company to just sell a rolling chassis. Frame, wheels, shock, fork and possible brakes if they can accept to put in quality brake. As you said, at least in the front. A frame kit would feel way less risky to put money into and I for sure would give em a try for a frame kit or a rolling chassis. Then I could decide what motor, controller, bms etc to use.

Maybe this can be an opportunity for real world testing of the frames? They are lacking in their testing department as I got contradicting max rider weight from them and even if I continue to ask they give me various answer. I got so far from 90 kilo to 110 kilo iirc. I mean max rider weight should be easy for them to find, because they should have at least done some computer simulation of their frame, but it seems they have not.

Check with them Artur if they are willing to do frame kits or rolling chassis, in the end I am sure they will benefit too from real world testing and review from the ES crowd as some of you guy got mad skills and experience. And they can be sure their frame will be used in a harsh way by many here :D
Last edited by macribs on Nov 12, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by McChicken » Nov 12, 2017 2:35 pm

Thank you Artur for a VERY hones report.
Yes, I have experienced the same journey many times as you guys do with Chinese manufacturer.
Wish you all the best and for sure make sure the product you're getting is the one you need.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by skeetab5780 » Nov 12, 2017 8:23 pm

Good video arthur i had a feeling these were not all they are cracked up to be...yet anyway

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Aebrennan » Nov 13, 2017 6:36 am

The Sur-Ron overseas marketing manager has a different story

“Regarding what the Germany guy said, I have no answers for you. Because feedback from other customers are not the same as what he said. So, test your sample when they are arrived. And what they told me is that about the noise about the old motor. And on your samples are the new motor.

Also, we have about Germany Speaking area company, today, they have the people come to our factory checked their sample. Didn’t say such kind of problem. So, for Germany Speaking area, we will have a very strong partner soon.

We already signed exclusive agency dealers for North America, and next is for French speaking area, Germany Speaking area, Nordic Countries, Some Eastern European counties, and Australia and New Zealand. This is what I can inform you.

And after you tested the bike, you will know more about the bike.”

Best regards!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 13, 2017 6:43 am

I can upload a testing video. What about you?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Aebrennan » Nov 13, 2017 6:54 am

I’m sure everyone would love to see the video you have!
I can’t post a video yet as the bikes are on the way.

I’m only passing on exactly what the company is saying to it’s buyers (me)
That is what I have done all along as many Es members ask questions on here instead of directly to the company.
I copy and paste the exact replies I receive, totally unbiased.

The only video anyone has seen of non Asian is Motomoto
I say more videos the better for anyone interested.
Please upload and share

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by madin88 » Nov 13, 2017 1:51 pm

without pics or vids it isn't true :P

regarding the size of the frame:
guys, what you need to do is compare dimensions like wheelbase or seat height with other bikes you feel comfortable to ride.
From what i found out the size of the Sur ron would be called as "medium" if it would be a european bike.

about overheating:
for a meaningful statement someone needs to measure the phase-to-phase resistance of the HPM3000 so that it can be compared with other (hub)motors.

Can anyone confirm the higher weight of 52kg instead of 45kg as specified?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Joachim » Nov 13, 2017 4:03 pm

EU market wil be to smal for these electric dinky toy bikes :oops: 35-45km range wtf :mrgreen:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by macribs » Nov 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Eu too small? Or too small for EU? :wink:
If this bike come as 45 km/h moped I am sure many would take the opportunity to ride street legal.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Hyena » Nov 13, 2017 4:51 pm

I will post a full video review once they arrive on Aussie soil, but that won't be until xmas at this rate.

As stated a seat height figure would quickly clear up the rough size concerns of the bike.
The overheating thing is interesting given the only other review out there from the one motomoto had sent to the US stated that the motor was cool after a thrashing.
As for the noise, there's only so much better a controller tune ( even with the best sinewave) can make it. Mid drives will NEVER be as quiet as a sine fed hub - the motors spin faster and they've got the chain and sprocket whizzing around generating noise too. Best case would be a belt but even then it'll still make some noise.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am

what is my interest to tell bullshit about the bike?? i dont understand you guys. I share it for your own benefit, and you blaming me for this, really?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Aebrennan » Nov 14, 2017 7:38 am

Video please!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 14, 2017 8:41 am


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Hyena » Nov 14, 2017 9:12 am

No one is blaming you, I think we're all just interested that we're hearing different reports from different people, and talk of changes from the manufacturer.
Thanks for the video! This bike does seem quieter than the earlier version from the US, but still loud, and hard to compare directly as yours was out in the open and the other was echoing off factories. You can hear how much noise is coming from the motor vs fixed noise from the drive train when coasting.

Looks like it topped out about 70km/hr ? That's not bad for 60v.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 14, 2017 9:24 am

Hyena wrote:No one is blaming you, I think we're all just interested that we're hearing different reports from different people, and talk of changes from the manufacturer.
Thanks for the video! This bike does seem quieter than the earlier version from the US, but still loud, and hard to compare directly as yours was out in the open and the other was echoing off factories. You can hear how much noise is coming from the motor vs fixed noise from the drive train when coasting.

Looks like it topped out about 70km/hr ? That's not bad for 60v.
speed is fake, i measured with gps. top speed 60km/h on flat without wind (so offroad i think 50-60top). about sound - take into account gopro was in case, so it blocks all the noise and you still can hear it very loud. No chance to ride this on street without documents here in eu. Police will hear you one mole away lol

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Aebrennan » Nov 14, 2017 1:18 pm

Thanks for posting the video it allows people to form their own opinions as opposed to a verbal interpretation.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by skeetab5780 » Nov 14, 2017 1:18 pm

Hey it goes fast down the hills!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike group buy EU

Post by Artur » Nov 14, 2017 2:30 pm

Aebrennan wrote:Thanks for posting the video it allows people to form their own opinions as opposed to a verbal interpretation.
I can clearly see your interest in describing it in a best possible light to not loose your clients, present or future..
I think I am not the only one who mentioned it from your posts.
but I am presenting it from a neutral point, only comparing it with other ebikes I had chance to ride.
I could order those bikes more then a month ago , 50pcs, and then acting like you right now. But instead I decide to make (or at least to try) suitable for EU clients.
If you don't want to believe me - I don't care. I hope my feedback would be useful for somebody.

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