Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by macribs » Feb 13, 2018 12:12 pm

rberger maybe yet another hubsink is what you need? Didn't catch what motor you run, but if you got enough width between motor flanges to fit two hubsinks side by side that should help with the added thermal mass. Heat should be drawn even faster out from the motor. Worth trying as you say, depending on where thermal rollback happens the rollback could be hi risk. Better to try to avoid thermal rollback.

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by mrbill » Feb 16, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi Robert:

West Coast Electric Cycles will soon have in stock a 45mm stator DD hub motor.

https://westcoastelectrics.com/product/45mm-ddhub/

This one may be your best option, although I still doubt it will get you up your hill without your pedaling at least a little bit. I recommend the "4T" option.

You will need to check if your dropouts can spread to 142mm to get the wheel onto your trike, and you should check freewheel and disk brake compatibility. You will definitely need to use supplementary torque arms with this motor, one on each side.
Bill Bushnell
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Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 16, 2018 2:32 pm

mrbill wrote:
Feb 16, 2018 12:20 pm
West Coast Electric Cycles will soon have in stock a 45mm stator DD hub motor.
This one may be your best option, although I still doubt it will get you up your hill without your pedaling at least a little bit. I recommend the "4T" option.

You will need to check if your dropouts can spread to 142mm to get the wheel onto your trike, and you should check freewheel and disk brake compatibility. You will definitely need to use supplementary torque arms with this motor, one on each side.
The rear assembly of the trike including the dropouts are aluminum so I don't think I can spread it to 142mm. It was hard to even get the 135 Crystalyte in there.

I had been thinking of the two motor solution you mentioned but that seems like overkill once I got off the hill.

It looks like the Calcium Channel Blockers they had me on really wiped me out. Haven't been on the trike since earlier this week do to being nearly incapacitated. They now told me to stop the medication and I'm hoping I can at least go up the hill with minimal stopping. Its going to be in the 70's tomorrow so will give it a try then and it will be a good benchmark to compare to the previous 70 degree ambient day without Hubsink.

The next technical thing I'm going to do is to add a fan to the rear to blow over or across the hubsinks. I usually ride with one or two "panniers" and it reduces airflow to the motor. I'm hoping some increased airflow with the Hubsink/Statorade will let me get up the hill without the motor overheating (though I will probably still need to stop for my body to rest. I'm hoping I'll eventually get strong enough to not stop)

Want to again thank MrBill and everyone who has been helping me. I'm sure I'll be adding more here and hope folks will continue to add their input.
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 16, 2018 2:33 pm

macribs wrote:
Feb 13, 2018 12:12 pm
rberger maybe yet another hubsink is what you need? Didn't catch what motor you run, but if you got enough width between motor flanges to fit two hubsinks side by side that should help with the added thermal mass. Heat should be drawn even faster out from the motor. Worth trying as you say, depending on where thermal rollback happens the rollback could be hi risk. Better to try to avoid thermal rollback.
Its a Crystalyte 3540 and there is really only room for one set of hubsink as far as I can tell.
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by amberwolf » Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm

rberger wrote:
Feb 16, 2018 2:32 pm
The rear assembly of the trike including the dropouts are aluminum so I don't think I can spread it to 142mm. It was hard to even get the 135 Crystalyte in there.
If you don't need all of the axle space for a big gear cluster, you can modify the axle to fit, by extending the flat part of the axle and "moving" the shoulders inward. I did this with a grinder but you could have it professionally milled if you prefer.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search
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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 16, 2018 8:04 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm
If you don't need all of the axle space for a big gear cluster, you can modify the axle to fit, by extending the flat part of the axle and "moving" the shoulders inward. I did this with a grinder but you could have it professionally milled if you prefer.
I would like to keep my gears if I can. When I'm not climbing the mountain, I like to have low electric assist and still pedal and I find the gears still help with that. Also so far with the motor I have, I need the gears to go up the hill still.

But again, thanks for your suggestion, really appreciated the different perspectives and ideas.
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by amberwolf » Feb 17, 2018 1:03 am

Depending on the space you would have left between the motor cover and the frame, once the axle is resized to fit the frame, you might be able to go with a 5 or 6 speed freewheel, vs say, an 8. It might be that even an 8 would still fit. Youd have to figure out what you'd have in advance.

Often you can customize which sprockets are on there, so you might be able to use some really large sprockets on the lowest gear, then the next one over go down in size several steps, and so on, so you still have the range of gears, just not as many increments between them.


But a bigger motor might still not be teh answer; and a bigger motor will weigh more which itself will take a bit more power to move uphill (and to accelerate from a stop).

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by Tats » Feb 17, 2018 6:50 am

Hi Robert, I too am using phaserunner hs3540 statorade hubsinks panniers and have some hills. Peak temp I’ve seen is in the 87-88 degrees range with my total weight about 125 kgs in an ambient 37 degrees. My temp doesn’t climb anywhere near as fast as yours tho even with zero pedalling and 1800w. Silly question time...your brakes aren’t binding are they?

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 17, 2018 3:32 pm

Tats wrote:
Feb 17, 2018 6:50 am
Hi Robert, I too am using phaserunner hs3540 statorade hubsinks panniers and have some hills. Peak temp I’ve seen is in the 87-88 degrees range with my total weight about 125 kgs in an ambient 37 degrees. My temp doesn’t climb anywhere near as fast as yours tho even with zero pedalling and 1800w. Silly question time...your brakes aren’t binding are they?
That is a very helpful data point. The only real difference is my total weight is another 25kg.
I am 99.99% sure my brakes aren't binding, but will check

But it looks like that 25kg could be a pretty big factor. I just compared 125kg and 150kg with the ebikes.com trip simulator. It showed 125kg would peak around what you are seeing (~85)
Trip_Simulator_125kg.png
and at 150kg by the end of the trip it would hit 120 degrees.
Trip_Simulator__150kg.png
I will be doing another ride today and see what happens and then add a fan...
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 17, 2018 8:39 pm

SlowCo wrote:
Feb 12, 2018 7:41 am
rberger wrote:
Feb 12, 2018 4:17 am
I wonder if there is a way to tell if I have lost the Ferrofluid.
Do you have a Cycle Analyst on your trike? If so, just lift the rear wheel off the ground and see what the power consumption (Amps/Watts) is unloaded at top speed. Then post here or ask Grin to confirm if that is a wattage they also see when filled with enough Ferro Fluid. The no load power consumption should be a little higher with enough FF in the hub than without or too little.
I finally ran the test.
  • Having the wheel off the ground
  • Throttle full on for about 10 seconds or more
  • CA Watts: 79 to 80
  • "Speed" 29 to 30mph
Let me know if that looks like its what you would expect with enough ferrofluid.
Thanks
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by SlowCo » Feb 18, 2018 10:58 am

I have no experience with this motor or ferrofluid so you'll have to email Grin and ask them. Maybe someone on here knows the unloaded wattage of this specific motor without FF?

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by mrbill » Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm

rberger wrote:
Feb 17, 2018 8:39 pm
I finally ran the test.
  • Having the wheel off the ground
  • Throttle full on for about 10 seconds or more
  • CA Watts: 79 to 80
  • "Speed" 29 to 30mph
Hi Robert:

Yes, I would say your wattage figures are about the same as mine using a wheel that I know to have sufficient amount of Statorade installed and no controller field-weakening.
Bill Bushnell
http://mrbill.homeip.net/
Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: Ebike Hub Motor overheating cooling solution - HUBSINK OFFICIAL THREAD

Post by rberger » Feb 22, 2018 2:42 pm

mrbill wrote:
Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm
Yes, I would say your wattage figures are about the same as mine using a wheel that I know to have sufficient amount of Statorade installed and no controller field-weakening.
Thanks for the confirmation. At this point, I'm pretty sure its the extra 25kg that puts me over the edge compared to others with similar setups like yours.

My next experiment will be to try putting a fan to blow over the heatsinks. Just need to figure out how mount it appropriately.
2011 ICE Adventure Trike Converted to 1500W DD Hub Pedalec in 2017

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