FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

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Bavaria_first!   1 µW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Bavaria_first! » Mar 01 2018 1:56pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:38pm
Interesting info.
Can you tell what's the advantage with a 29" front wheel + 27.5+ rear wheel? and what's the tire size to match for front and rear wheel?
And what travel to fit for front 29" and rear 27.5+ ?
Shilah wrote:
Jan 19 2018 9:41am
I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.
Hi all,
https://www.emtb-news.de/news/canyon-spectral-on-test/

they die IT now with different wheelsizes.

The German Guy who created the Horst Link system spoke last years in a Interview that this style will be next steps in future e-mtb because, the motor will be powerfuller.

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tumich   100 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tumich » Mar 01 2018 6:01pm

Bavaria_first! wrote:
Mar 01 2018 1:56pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:38pm
Interesting info.
Can you tell what's the advantage with a 29" front wheel + 27.5+ rear wheel? and what's the tire size to match for front and rear wheel?
And what travel to fit for front 29" and rear 27.5+ ?
Shilah wrote:
Jan 19 2018 9:41am
I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.
Hi all,
https://www.emtb-news.de/news/canyon-spectral-on-test/

they die IT now with different wheelsizes.

The German Guy who created the Horst Link system spoke last years in a Interview that this style will be next steps in future e-mtb because, the motor will be powerfuller.
Come on. Shimano doesn't have torque sensor. That's why is the cheapest middrive used on good knowing German ebikes brands. Even Bafang has optional sensor but Shimano not.. Maybe this year on Eurobike we will see improved version.
My ebikes:
1. Sur ron
2. Treking bike with 250W PAS and 34Ah battery

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

Animalector   10 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Mar 01 2018 6:04pm

Yes they do. I've ridden the e8000 and it is torque sensing for sure.. same as the e6000

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 1:23pm

I have seen some specs on this motor, the G521 500W 48V. I have not seen the max amps posted anywhere, nor can I find them. Seeing the torque numbers I would think a minimum of 20a? Don't try and put too much battery in there and ruin the stealth and make it really heavy. People can carry extra battery if they want more range. I think a 14S4P or 13S4P in the down tube would be decent enough. Maybe 2 modules of 14S2P 30Q cells paralleled. A person could remove one if they didn't want the extra weight that day. May be they could be made to clip together end to end to form one long battery. That should not be difficult.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:17pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 11 2018 2:28am
As we known, Bafang no battery matching with their tube. I think we can only develop the battery system by ourselves if want to make the bike pretty look. Bafang told us that we can get the mount bracket before our CNY.
It is possible for us to make the frame after we get the bracket.
Animalector wrote:
Jan 10 2018 4:28pm
it looks dubious to me. Battery in Pic, but further down the page it has a Hailong Case pictured. Plus I hate it when they get the Part number / specs wrong.

I'll wait until I hear from Bafang or a reputable frame builder that they are available. It's no good to me without a frame anyway

If bafang has no plans to make that frame, maybe they would give you the specs of the frame and battery container. Then you could modify for your own geometry.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:21pm

I would also like to see the motor painted the same color as the bike. If the battery is not completely within the downtube, I would like any exposed parts to be the same color of the bike. Bike as stealthy as possible.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » Mar 04 2018 3:22pm

tinasdude wrote:
Mar 04 2018 3:21pm
I would also like to see the motor painted the same color as the bike. If the battery is not completely within the downtube, I would like any exposed parts to be the same color of the bike. Bike as stealthy as possible.
+1

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 04 2018 3:26pm

As Shilah said open source battery. Many of us already have batteries and bafang motors. We would like to continue using them with a new bike as back up.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 06 2018 1:33pm

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 10 2018 1:04pm
My request
1. Original Bafang Frame where battery can be hide in the tube.
2.Higher AH battery 17ah to 21ah or better (If 52V with 21700 cells)
3. Battery Brand: Sanyo or Pansonic
4. Tyre 27.5", so that we can exchange bicycle rim with our current ebike.
5, Available in 2 model Hardtail and Dual Suspension
6. Normal Derailleur system, as IGH will add additional weight to bike and defeat the purpose of weight reduction.
7. Quad Piston brake whether from Magura or Tektro will be fine.
8. Disc Brake size 203mm F/R
I think you have checked most of my boxes. Totally agree a hardtail and a full suspension.. Agree with Robocam about the 14S4P 30Q battery. A 14S2P water bottle appearing battery could be offered as an option to increase range. It could be made to fit the standard water bottle cage width. Standard brakes dual piston, with a 4 piston option. The battery and brake changes would help keep costs down and still have those options for people who want more. The hardtail is definitely a stealthier looking bike, and would appeal to a lot of people who won't be doing serious off road. And people will love the FS too. Agree with 27.5 as well. With a 3.0 or 2.8 it is almost a 29er in diameter. The Video shown of the Bafang bike showed a horrid chainline. It was straight , but I think it was in about gear 6 or 7. Rear dropout width in relation to BB width helps with chainline. The bike they show needed a wider rear dropout to provide a better chainline. From the appearance of the motor on that bike and offset chainring is not an option to improve the chainline. Bafang mentioned a double chainring. That would be fabulous. But that further emphasizes the need for an improved chainline. Drivetrain components could be optional too. One decent 8 speed cassette and derailleur option and 1 high end option. You can get 8 speed rebuildable cassettes. 8 speeds is enough for an electric, imo. That will help keep cost down too. Stronger chain available. https://wheeling.pro/2018-bafang-m600-m ... e976b.html

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by leelorr » Mar 06 2018 3:08pm

>> "Bafang mentioned a double chainring. That would be fabulous."

I agree. I spent a lot of time trying to get my gearing set up with my Bafang BBS02 so that I could ride single track trails at low speed AND streets and bike paths (higher speed) with only one front chain ring. If a double chain ring is not possible, then a wide range rear gear cluster with an 11 tooth and a "granny gear" to allow a wider speed range would work.

I also would like a battery that fits smoothly and "stealthily" into the frame but with the option to buy a second, maybe smaller battery to attach on longer rides. This would give the option of a very light weight battery or a heavier battery for longer rides, or possibly both batteries mounted at once.

Thanks,
Lorrin

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 06 2018 7:24pm

8 speed cassettes are available in steel 11-40 i believe. Having a 40 granny would allow a larger crank gear so i wouldn't even use the 11. So we definitely need a long cage derailleur as well.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Halcon » Mar 07 2018 1:27pm

Heavy EMTB should have 203mm brake rotors front and rear with 4 piston Magura or similar brakes front and rear. Use the EMTB specific system from SRAM the EX1 huge range 8 gears. Also the Bafang M600 system should have shift detection if it does not already. Use a normal seat post width for dropper posts 30.9mm or 31.6mm. +1 on the integrated battery in the down tube. Use E-50 rated tires from Schwalbe or Maxxis. Using a frame that will support 27.5+ would allow for 29in tires 29x2.3
Great examples are the 2018 models Bulls E-Stream Evo AM 27.5+, Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 SL 500 27.5, and the Giant Full-E+ 0 SX Pro

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by hoojsn » Mar 07 2018 3:40pm

Indeed SRAM EX1 8 speed system (11-48T) is pretty good and climb very steep hill. However price are expensive. Currently my Hardtail came with Top notch components such as Magura MT5E with 203mm Rotor Disc, SRAM EX1 System, Bafang Ultra 1000 watts with Derailleur Gear Sensors etc.. But the motor give itself away in a glance. That is the reason I prefer M600, battery hidden, frame and motor matte black will be stealth on the road. In regardless how good the EX1, it will be prone to wear and tear. If cheaper system we will not break our bank to replace them. As for Chain EX1 and Taya DHT (Diamond Hard Technology) is pretty impressive for ebike. Currently I has just change my EX1 chain to Taya DHT Deca-101 (Ebike) https://tayachain.com/index.php/en/best ... n/DECA-101
Replace the chain with Taya and gears still shift smoothly. I will try it out on weekend riding. (Take note SRAM 8 speed chain is equal to 10 speed chain)

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Halcon » Mar 08 2018 7:28pm

Frey is leading the development of the M500 and M600 and there are too few companies willing to design a bike only for the US and Canadian Markets, both countries allowing 500w or more for e-bikes.
The motor and system are supposed to be released in April but the batteries are not available until June.
It would be great to be able to buy the frame only and build your individual ideal bike while we wait for the batteries to be developed.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Mar 08 2018 7:32pm

so does that mean you want a internal battery or get them to build a frame with a flat down tube that will accept any aftermarket battery?

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 08 2018 7:42pm

A frame built for the bafang down tube batterys. Maybe a structural cover could be in place until batteries become avaiable. Water bottles bosses so people can use down tube batteries in the meantime.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 11 2018 2:41am

News from FREY: We have ordered a m500 set to make sample bike firstly. The motor should be deliveried in early April replied from Bafang, Now we are have good experience on the full suspension construction design and buliding. Still thinking about what type battery tube and battery case fit for the new model come with m500/600.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by sacko » Mar 11 2018 4:28am


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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tinasdude » Mar 13 2018 2:00pm

Frey you are killing me. Please make m600 500W in a hardtail first. 27.5. No odd wheels and tire sizes. That is a full suspension trail bike thing. Make sure the bike will fit a 3.0 tire. If you could make the hardtail just like the bafang bike and give us the same battery. If you cannot do the battery. Give us the same bafang frame so we can fit a bafang battery when they come. A stealthy hardtail is what many desire. Commute, rail trails, recreation, city transportation. The bafang hardtail is the ideal bike.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Cruncher123 » Mar 15 2018 2:28am

Integrated! None of these clumsy add-on batteries! Stop making ebikes look so damn obvious with batteries slapped on downtube like an afterthought. Look at the newest German/French emtbs. Beautifully concealed batteries - you can't tell they are ebikes at first glance.

Ideal emtb would look/ride like a top-name European emtb but with higher power motor and bigger battery (52v 20ah).

And angle the motor so it blends into the downtube.

150mm full suspension with 3 frame sizes. 29er version would be nice. Focus on elegant design. If you can produce something people will covet rather than settling for, you will sell a ton of bikes.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Mar 15 2018 2:52am

the big issue here is cost... sure you can develop something fully integrated but it costs more, and therefore you've lost a large chunk of customers. There are two types customers - those who want a stealth ebike who will pay a lot (aka they will buy a Specialised or a focus or german / French bike) and those who want an affordable ebike who will have to settle with bottle downtube batteries.

I don't see a way to have both. Can you?

Andy

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by xcnick » Mar 15 2018 10:27am

I prefer Bottle cage batteries. I am not embarrassed of my ebikes, easily replaced batteries is a pleasure at any price. Batteries evolve faster than I replace bicycles, so I want forward compatibility.

Of course I am the idiot who wants a 24 inch wheel. I built a BBSHD on a kids (24) Kona downhill which was fantastic. It's only failing was it was 15 pounds too heavy for my wife. You have the ability to solve this problem with the new Bafang and custom frame.

Image

I would like to see your company innovate with a new product like this and then let the European manufactures try to steal some of YOUR market share. Build one for yourself and ride it around. This is one of the easiest BBSHD builds.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by rumme » Mar 16 2018 6:35am

Animalector wrote:
Mar 15 2018 2:52am
the big issue here is cost... sure you can develop something fully integrated but it costs more, and therefore you've lost a large chunk of customers. There are two types customers - those who want a stealth ebike who will pay a lot (aka they will buy a Specialised or a focus or german / French bike) and those who want an affordable ebike who will have to settle with bottle downtube batteries.

I don't see a way to have both. Can you?

Andy
Integrated looks so much sleeker, but then it is proprietary and when it comes time to replace the battery pack, you must usually buy 1 specific special made battery , which costs more and can sometimes be discontinued due to newer designs.

IMHO, the best situation is a integrated battery which is sleek , has around 20 AHS of capacity, and design the battery case so it can easily be disassembles and the owner can replace individual cells that may go bad or replace all the cells and reuse the battery hardcase over again.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Mar 17 2018 11:14pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 11 2018 2:41am
News from FREY: We have ordered a m500 set to make sample bike firstly. The motor should be deliveried in early April replied from Bafang, Now we are have good experience on the full suspension construction design and buliding. Still thinking about what type battery tube and battery case fit for the new model come with m500/600.
Ivy, here is a frame with battery in it that is currently selling not sure if it is a design that you could look into but it looks real similar to the Bafang release frame system with integrated battery?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 16f0jJ55fK
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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Speady » Mar 30 2018 3:33pm

Hello my friends @FREY,
I'm an ebike guy from Euroland, did some bbs2 and tsdz2 builds already and tried Bosch. As you're interested in various comments I'd like to share my whishlist with you.
EU is a large market for your product and has good and stable growth in Ebikes. Sure there is demand for your bike as long as you build it EU street legal, complying to the S-Ped regulations 28mph/ 45kmh. no thumb trottle. It needs to pay approval.
Ultradrive is too heavy, Bafang M600 is the way to go.
I wish you'd offer a speed commuter 45
It needs to have fenders, lights, mirror, S-tires, wide rims and a rack with the small numberplate on it.
And keep the big battery on it, weight doesn't matter too much on a ebike, range anxiety does. That's an issue some of the Haibike riders with Bosch Powerpack complain about when riding fast (The next issue is lack of power). You already have a 1Kw/h pack ready to go sitting on your shelf, that's twice the power your competitors in EU come along with.
Hope to see a quick-and-easy commuter Hardtail from you coming soon. Durable entry level groupset is OK as long as you keep the Batt/ Driveunit and get some decent Fork and Seat suspension. Some aired battery cover would be great, as a solar protection while sitting in the sun at summer. With no bunch of wires ontop stem but with precise fuel gauge on it, I'd possibly buy.

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