Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

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Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by evolutiongts » Sep 08 2018 12:52am

Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC Controllers


Overview

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Accelerated Systems Controllers are very advanced controllers and they highly configurable.
  • True FOC (Field Oriented Control)
  • Sinewave torque control for very smooth throttle response
  • Field Weakening allows 1-200% RPM Boost
  • Regen Options: Momentary, Variable (2nd Thr), Proportional (CAV3), and Throttle off Regen
  • Built-In Bluetooth Module
  • BacDoor Mobile App for configuring controller and datalogging
  • Motor/Controller Temp Protection, Battery over current / over voltage protection / BMS interface / etc
  • Compatible with Displays like SWLCD, Bafang, Bigstone, will have Color LCD Display soon
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ASI BAC Family (Peak Phase/Current)
  • BAC8000 730A/460A (Firmware limited to 460A Batt at the moment)
  • BAC4000 460A/460A
  • BAC2000 *Going thru redesign ~250A
  • BAC800 90A/90A

BAC 4000

Peak Power
  • 463A Phase / 463A Battery
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BAC 8000

Peak Power
  • 730A Phase / 463A Battery
*Battery current limited to 463A due to firmware, I have been working with ASI to increase this soon*

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Datalogs

BAC 4000

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BAC 8000

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Videos

*Gauges are using data from the ASI Mobile App's Datalogging feature*







ASI Bluetooth App

All ASI Controllers have built in Bluetooth Modules

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Pricing

I have the BAC4000 32KW 463A and the BAC8000 54KW 730A in stock, let me know which you are interested in.

Introductory Pricing w/ 1 Year warranty and Bluetooth APP

ASI BAC4000
$550 (ASI Controller, 2 x Molex Connectors and Pins + Documentation, Support, Tuning, pre-programmed profile for your motor)
+$50 for harness, I will match up any wiring / connectors you need
+$50 Cycle Analyst Harness with 300A Shunt

ASI BAC8000
$750 (ASI Controller, 2 x Molex Connectors and Pins + Documentation, Support, Tuning, pre-programmed profile for your motor)
+$50 for harness, I will match up any wiring / connectors you need
+$50 Cycle Analyst Harness with 300A Shunt

Working on a TFT color display right now as well.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
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evolutiongts   10 kW

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by evolutiongts » Sep 13 2018 1:09pm

Dual ASI Controllers BAC2000 / BAC4000

74V Nominal

78mph

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1500W front hub and QS 205 3.5T 17"

Last edited by evolutiongts on Sep 13 2018 7:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by BCTECH » Sep 13 2018 2:10pm

any ETA for the TFT color display ?

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by evolutiongts » Sep 13 2018 7:22pm

I will be receiving them in about a week.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 21 2018 3:13pm

I have the BAC8000 54KW 730A in stock, let me know which you are interested in.
It's probably a great controller but..
You know that 72V*463A(batt) isn't anything close to 54kW, right? I'd correct it if you're not using Alibaba sales tactics deliberately. :mrgreen:
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by icherouveim » Sep 22 2018 1:38am

Good morning evolutiongts,

From what they say they are top of the line most efficient - quality controllers, it will be great If they offer a complete solution to pair it with a compatible screen and also to be able to program it & check the statistics on the go.

A disadvantage is that the cable connections are not ideal for e bike use because they use screws at the top of the controller and the cables - connections look bulky & messy when the controller is placed outside of the frame.

The BAC2000 I think it's a nice option for the most of the e bikes because it is compact and the cables exit at the front.When they finish with the redesign 250A battery amps are a lot, it will be great!

What is your battery pack BTW ?
Last edited by icherouveim on Sep 22 2018 2:31am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 22 2018 2:21am

Who's the question to?
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by icherouveim » Sep 22 2018 2:32am

larsb wrote:
Sep 22 2018 2:21am
Who's the question to?
Sorry I forgot to mention, I was writing to evolutiongts

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by evolutiongts » Sep 25 2018 1:58pm

icherouveim wrote:
Sep 22 2018 1:38am
Good morning evolutiongts,

From what they say they are top of the line most efficient - quality controllers, it will be great If they offer a complete solution to pair it with a compatible screen and also to be able to program it & check the statistics on the go.

A disadvantage is that the cable connections are not ideal for e bike use because they use screws at the top of the controller and the cables - connections look bulky & messy when the controller is placed outside of the frame.

The BAC2000 I think it's a nice option for the most of the e bikes because it is compact and the cables exit at the front.When they finish with the redesign 250A battery amps are a lot, it will be great!

What is your battery pack BTW ?
I offer my ASI systems with a Cycle Analyst and soon a Color TFT display. You can also use a bluetooth app to program and monitor as you go. My battery Pack is 20S 32AH 10C
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

Schwinn 405 2WD Track Bike 18KW
EDGE 1500W Hub / MXUS 3K Turbo
ASI BAC 2000 / BAC 4000 Bluetooth
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93079

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 25 2018 7:11pm

A member has flagged this thread due to their perception that the performance claims have been exaggerated. I am curious if this is true. Even if the advertised specs are overly optimistic, I am hearing reports that the ASI controllers work quite well.

I encourage anyone who has actual hands-on experience to please post a quick snap shot of your experience with ASI controllers.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 25 2018 11:53pm

This is copy and paste from this link from ASI's site:
http://accelerated-systems.com/products/

http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-conte ... NE2018.pdf

Pasted from the .pdf text:

INPUT (ALL CONTROLLERS)
FEATURE RATING
Nominal Input
Voltage 36-72 Volts
Input Power Software confi gurable
OUTPUT PEAK PHASE CURRENT
MODEL RATING
BAC 2000 150 Amps
BAC 4000 460 Amps
BAC 8000 860 Amps


860amps phase current at 85vdc (I run 21s).

Pasted from this 3p power calculator site:

AC three phase amps to kilowatts calculation:

Calculation with line to line voltage
The power P in kilowatts (kW) is equal to square root of 3 times the power factor PF times the phase current I in amps (A), times the line to line RMS voltage VL-L in volts (V) divided by 1000:

P(kW) = √3 × PF × I(A) × VL-L (V) / 1000

We need to convert our 85vdc DC bus to the AC sine wave RMS voltage, this happens by multiply by the square root of 2, making it 60.1 VAC RMS for the power calculator's line-line AC RMS voltage input need.

Select current type:
Enter current in amps:
860
A
Select voltage type:
Enter voltage in volts:
60.1
V
Enter power factor:
0.9


Power result in kilowatts:
80.570500236
kW

Which would be 947amps off an 85Vdc battery. I've never seen one draw that much power yet, but they will pull over 750amps off a battery easily. If I had a lower impedance battery maybe it would draw more, the voltage sag is brutal being a smaller pack than I normally work with.

The ASI BAC8000 is a beast that makes real HP if you can feed it.

I race against a race prepped 450cc Husky supermoto bike with a champion racer and launch-control, and it hangs with it.


It also hangs with the launch-mode on the v10 audi R8 until around 60mph.
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 26 2018 4:18am

are we breaking the perpetum mobile glass ceiling finally? :D The numbers are REALLY good for the BAC8000 but still not as good as 54kW or 80kW due to the battery current limit.

From first post:
ASI BAC Family (Peak Phase/Current)
BAC8000 730A/460A (Firmware limited to 460A Batt at the moment)
BAC4000 460A/460A
BAC2000 *Going thru redesign ~250A
BAC800 90A/90A
85v * 460A (battery)= 39.1 kW into controller, that does not equal three phase calculation from LFP at 80.57 kW out of controller
and that's without any voltage drop in the battery which would be something like 2-5V for an ok battery at 460A
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by litespeed » Sep 26 2018 7:01am

I’d say proof is in the pudding......the Sur-Ron sure “looks” fast!

I’d do one of these in a minute if they had the Adappto “full meal deal” of BMS and charging.....it’s just so convenient.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by icherouveim » Sep 26 2018 8:16am

From what I've read everywhere (forums, YouTube videos) this should be a great controller series but the big question is:
Does it adjust the timing settings "continually" in order to run the motor cooler and more efficiently compare to other controllers?
The big complain I hear a lot about adaptto controllers is how difficult is to find the optimal - accurate motor settings also when the battery voltage drops down you have to stop to adjust timing settings etc.

So if someone had an adaptto controller before is there is any difference with the heat produced in the motor at the same power levels ?

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 26 2018 9:39am

I’d say proof is in the pudding......the Sur-Ron sure “looks” fast!
When you buy a car with 100hp specified and get a measly 50hp motor then i bet you'd forget about "it looked fast in the video" :roll:

Come on! It's about overspecing and possibly lying to exaggerate performance by 50-100%
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by RobertC » Sep 26 2018 10:03am

Lars, that sounds a small bit harsh..

That said, my non-informed opinion is that we run into physical limits. Wires, FETs, etc.
They may squeeze any extra few percent from tweaks to the design, and advanced tuning, but I think that would come at the expense of safety tolerances.

To me the compactness is the break-through.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 26 2018 10:49am

I know that most of us don't come close to being able to use a 35kW controller due to limitations in the rest of our kit.

I am seriously considering the BAC8000 myself but my point is that 35kW and 54kW will never be the same and specs need to match reality when you're outside of China 8)

Let's assume it's just a mistake. Post should still be corrected or the mismatch explained
Last edited by larsb on Sep 26 2018 2:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 26 2018 11:04am

icherouveim wrote:
Sep 26 2018 8:16am
The big complain I hear a lot about adaptto controllers is how difficult is to find the optimal - accurate motor settings also when the battery voltage drops down you have to stop to adjust timing settings etc.

So if someone had an adaptto controller before is there is any difference with the heat produced in the motor at the same power levels ?
The Adaptto controllers have had many issues for users here but i would rate these as faults. There really is no comparison to be done with the ASI controller as i believe it's a quality controller.

In my previous build i couldn't see a noticeable performance diff between an adaptto and a kelly kls controller but my wallet sure noticed the 500$ difference in price.
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by madin88 » Sep 26 2018 11:46am

icherouveim wrote:
Sep 26 2018 8:16am
From what I've read everywhere (forums, YouTube videos) this should be a great controller series but the big question is:
Does it adjust the timing settings "continually" in order to run the motor cooler and more efficiently compare to other controllers?
The big complain I hear a lot about adaptto controllers is how difficult is to find the optimal - accurate motor settings also when the battery voltage drops down you have to stop to adjust timing settings etc.

So if someone had an adaptto controller before is there is any difference with the heat produced in the motor at the same power levels ?
Forget to think about that.. This is an adaptto specific problem and you probably never need to care about mentioned issues when using different controllers.
On Adaptto the optimal setting for PWR_timing seems to be dependent on battery voltage, so it should be adjusted with the SOC. At least thats the case on my setup. If i don't adjust the timing, the motor will overheat much quicker and/or there will be a runaway situation.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by icherouveim » Sep 26 2018 11:57am

madin88 wrote:
Sep 26 2018 11:46am
icherouveim wrote:
Sep 26 2018 8:16am
From what I've read everywhere (forums, YouTube videos) this should be a great controller series but the big question is:
Does it adjust the timing settings "continually" in order to run the motor cooler and more efficiently compare to other controllers?
The big complain I hear a lot about adaptto controllers is how difficult is to find the optimal - accurate motor settings also when the battery voltage drops down you have to stop to adjust timing settings etc.

So if someone had an adaptto controller before is there is any difference with the heat produced in the motor at the same power levels ?
Forget to think about that.. This is an adaptto specific problem and you probably never need to care about mentioned issues when using different controllers.
On Adaptto the optimal setting for PWR_timing seems to be dependent on battery voltage, so it should be adjusted with the SOC. At least thats the case on my setup. If i don't adjust the timing, the motor will overheat much quicker and/or there will be a runaway situation.
Thanks for the reply, I was waiting an answer from an adaptto user that knows about timing issue that leads to overheating. So you say probably you won't have a similar problem with an ASI or Vasili's new controller.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 26 2018 5:15pm

I've already seen 750amps battery amps at 60Vdc with an ASI BAC8000, that's 45kW. In an application with minimal battery sag over 55kW should be possible. This is assuming it doesn't have software limits hindering it.

My ASI BAC8000's have firmware with a 730amp phase current max setting, but you can see from their .pdf it says 860amp phase current peak for BAC8000. I'm trying to get that firmware, because another 130amps phase current is always the right thing to do.
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by larsb » Sep 26 2018 10:18pm

I've already seen 750 amps battery...
..This is assuming it doesn't have software limits hindering it.
Tha's a fantastic number for your controller! So it's actually at least capable of the stated 54kW :D

How long time is it capable to keep it at these power levels? Seconds or minutes or even longer?

The controllers from this post would still never reach 54kW as they are limited by firmware setting.

The 'for sale' post should be corrected, even though it will be pretty clear to anyone reading the thread now that they won't be getting more than 35-40kW out of it.
Last edited by larsb on Sep 01 2019 4:31am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by madin88 » Sep 27 2018 2:39am

The numbers are impressive for a controller this size, right? And the price is not bad..

Has anyone opened one up?
I would like to see the power stage.

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by icherouveim » Sep 27 2018 3:10am

madin88 wrote:
Sep 27 2018 2:39am
The numbers are impressive for a controller this size, right? And the price is not bad..

Has anyone opened one up?
I would like to see the power stage.
When will you take a video with your new mid drive project to compare it with the upgraded Sur-Ron with ASI controller ?

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Re: Accelerated Systems ASI BAC 4000 & BAC 8000 FOC BT Controllers

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 27 2018 10:18am

I've already seen 750amps battery amps at 60Vdc with an ASI BAC8000, that's 45kW
I've read LFPs posts for years, and I've never caught him exaggerating. If he says he logged 45kW at 60V, then I believe him. Using that as a baseline for comparison, these controllers are rated to run up to 72V (20S?) nominal, even though a fully-charged battery can provide higher peak loads over the nominal rating (3.6V nominal per cell vs 4.2V fully charged)

750A X 72V = roughly 54kW nominal, and a little more if the battery is freshly charged. (20S X 4.2V = 84V). We all need to start collecting hands-on data on this controller family, so we can separate the real-world performance from theory and advertising. However, I have to admit I am impressed.

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