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Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 14 2019 1:46am
by madin88
Joachim wrote:
Jun 13 2019 3:30pm

there is only one thing left that can be wrong...the offset from the pulleys is not good.
It is highly unlikely that there is something wrong with offest, simply for the reason because the belt is touching the outside guide flanges on BOTH the small and large pulley.
Dont like to set the compleet wheel/tyres to one side because the pulleys doenst line uop propper when the wheel is 100% straight in the swingarm, when i let the bike roll with loose hands the bike must strace straight! i am not assemble my wheel crooked because the pulleys doenst line up correct, this is crazzy thing to do :shock:
If the pulleys line up (100% parallel), then your wheel should be also parallel. If it looks crooked because the tire doesn't stay in middle of the swingarm then probably something is wrong with the wheel itself (rim not laced centered), or something else with the frame or swingarm which would be highly doubtful.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 14 2019 2:02am
by Joachim
Yes everything you write is correct but i give up with this belt conversion

I re-align the wheel/tension 10 times and driven 300+km...yesterday out of nowhere squeak like a crazy hot dry bearing :shock:

I make a video of the real squeaking sound and you wil understand the disappointment :lol:

You cannot set the pulleys deeper are less-deeper.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 14 2019 3:03am
by madin88
Joachim wrote:
Jun 14 2019 2:02am
I re-align the wheel/tension 10 times and driven 300+km
Did you align the pulley by using a straight tube like it was mentioned? and not taking location of the wheel or marks on the swingarm into account?
Did you check the thing with the axle nut and that it could move backwards on the left side during braking if it is not tightened strong enough?

You can easily adjust the angular alignment of the rear using the chain adjusters. You need to use a good straight edge across the rear sprocket that is long enough to reach the front to get a good measurement. Rotate the rear wheel and repeat measurement at several spots.

There is every indication that you have a problem with the angle on basis of the infos you provided:

- belt is touching/rubbing on the outside guide flange on BOTH pulleys
- the clacking noise it makes in your vid at 1:20
- pulley bends to the side under load
- the noise was gone after you did apply grease to the OUTSIDE of the belt

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 14 2019 5:44am
by Joachim
even the big aluminium pulley is not flat and straight :lol: this is the problem 100% sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RK0yullDrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKekWRfNcdY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45SdIdRUgso

I line the belt in the center of the front and rear pulley and the creaming noise is still present.
So this hase nothing to do with the belt that runs against the edge.

Can some one send me a straight pulley :?:

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 14 2019 9:18am
by Joachim
perfect in line :bigthumb: when i have the time a will test how it goes...you can hear in the video the sound is hard and not good.

Image
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Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 15 2019 3:41pm
by Joachim
belt 100% straight in line on the front and rear pulley.

under 100Hz same problem.

130Hz noise it gone but you veel there is something not good and to much tension.

I think this is the rear pulley thats not flat/straight, how can we fix this problem Allex?

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 16 2019 5:35pm
by Allex
Hi, Due to big diameter of the pulley, yours is within tolerances when it comes to beating against the wooden piece. I would not worry at all. What your Video shows is perfectly fine. This could be due to several reasons:
*The China hubs are usually not perfect - you can usually see it when installing BIG 203mm rotors on front and back wheel, the disc is almost never straight after the installation!
*Could be something ridiculous like a layer of old loctite between pulley and hub in some places.
*Just a simple notch in aluminium or mud/sand grains

My pulley has actually even more play after the bike god dropped by a customer, this does not impact on the noise at all.
Regarding your noise, we are investigating and trying with different materials!

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 17 2019 2:28am
by Joachim
perfect i will put my chain back on my sur-ron and bring the belt kit to a machine shop.

i dont care when there is a some play on the pulley are hubs....so long the noise is normal and not like this :wink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKekWRfNcdY

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 17 2019 3:42am
by madin88
On my home-built moped i am using a similar belt drive and the large pulley is raw aluminum (without anodizing).
I never heard such squeeking noise, only the high pitch whine you can hear in the first vid from Allex (bike inside a room with the wheel off the ground).
But almost since the beginning i am using this stuff:

https://www.dryfluids-shop.com/epages/6 ... 011%203%22

Image

I did use it because i wanted to see if the no-load consumption could be reduced when adding lubricant to a belt drive, and not because of the noise.
It was just a few watts less so not worth to mention, but maybe this dry fluid is the reason that i don't have issues with such ugly noise.
As it is dry and not sticky it doesn't collect dust or debries (the liquid will evaporate after you apply it and PTFE particles will remain for lubrication).
The blue color anti friction coating on the gates the belt has gone after a few 100km and the dry fluid makes it look grey now (probably from aluminum particles).

Joachim, would you give it a try before you put back the chain on your SurRon?

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 18 2019 12:28pm
by TheBMallory
I don't own a sur-ron so it may not be relevant but won't the
particules grind down the belt ? I was told to never use grease on plastic because when it dries it leaves debris that grinds anything where there's friction (you have to make sure to use grease that doesn't dry)

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 27 2019 1:14am
by JoeNuxoll
I added my name to the spreadsheet. How do I pay you?

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 27 2019 2:43am
by madin88
TheBMallory wrote:
Jun 18 2019 12:28pm
I was told to never use grease on plastic because when it dries it leaves debris that grinds anything where there's friction (you have to make sure to use grease that doesn't dry)
I think that doesn't apply for this dry fluid stuff.
Basically it is a liquid with microscopically small PTFE particles and the liquid works as transport medium to move the particles to areas where you want to have them (joints with narrow gaps etc). When it dries the PTFE particles remain on the surface and reduce friction.

The blue coating on gates belt or the red one on optibelt is also PTFE so this dry fluid should work well for that purpose.
And the best thing is that it doesn't collect dust particles as grease would do because it isn't sticky.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 27 2019 5:02pm
by Duncan75
My experience with the Belt KIT has been very good so far.

I can't comment on durability yet, but the craftsmanship is top notch :thumb: . Would be great if Sur-Ron's nuts and bolts were of such great quality as these in the kit.

My main reason for purchase was wanting less noise. The motor and controller sounds take over when the chain rattle is gone ,
so it's a little more like riding a spaceship now :)
And it makes it easier hearing everything else on the bike, so you'll hear potential issues sooner.

Not having to lube and tighten the chain is also a cool bonus.

Do take your time when installing it, I managed to strip one bolt when removing the front sprocket because I wasn't very careful.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 28 2019 10:00am
by Allex
JoeNuxoll wrote:
Jun 27 2019 1:14am
I added my name to the spreadsheet. How do I pay you?
Hi!
Right now I am all sold out. Will make more in August. Can PM you when I can send out a kit for ya. Or just follow the thread here.

Duncan, thx for you kind words! A lot of time has been spent on this conversion.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jun 28 2019 4:50pm
by JoeNuxoll
But I want an Oompa Loompa now! :-)

Thanks Allex!

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Jul 31 2019 2:37pm
by srapy
After my first real offroad ride I also had this terrible squeeking.
I put candle wax on the inner side (closer to wheel) on the belt and it disappeared, but only for about 20km then I have to apply candle wax again. It seems like the belt touches the inner side of the front pulley. Then I also saw that the hub is not perfect spinning, this might be china manufacturing tolerance. I will try to align the belt/wheel more away from the touching inner side of the front pulley to stop sqeeking.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 04 2019 5:52pm
by kamdenburke
Did anybody come up with a solution for this? I don't have squeaking but I have an awful whirring noise coming from the pulley on the motor.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 06 2019 5:38am
by AlexisSurRon
Hi Allex,

When can we place an order for your Kit?
🙂
Thanks in advance!

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 06 2019 5:44am
by Allex
Soonish, perhaps in 3 weeks!

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 06 2019 12:15pm
by madin88
kamdenburke wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:52pm
Did anybody come up with a solution for this? I don't have squeaking but I have an awful whirring noise coming from the pulley on the motor.
Did you check tension? Are there signs of greater wear on belt or pulleys? If yes then i would replace them first.

If you want to lubricate it with something which isn't sticky and collecting dirt, then try out the Dry Fluid. It definitely helps.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 06 2019 2:50pm
by kamdenburke
madin88 wrote:
Aug 06 2019 12:15pm
kamdenburke wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:52pm
Did anybody come up with a solution for this? I don't have squeaking but I have an awful whirring noise coming from the pulley on the motor.
Did you check tension? Are there signs of greater wear on belt or pulleys? If yes then i would replace them first.

If you want to lubricate it with something which isn't sticky and collecting dirt, then try out the Dry Fluid. It definitely helps.
Thanks for the response. I checked the tension, alignment, and for wear. When I loosen the motor bolts (so that the belt is a little loose) the whirring goes away, but when I tighten the bolts again or put the bike under load, the whirring comes back. I'm worried that if I keep the primary belt too loose that it will slip / strip.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 07 2019 3:08am
by Allex
I prefer to have the primary belt a bit loose. One klick from the factory setting makes it more silent and more efficient. It never slipped on me. And yes ones you tighten the motor bolts the belt tightens up, so you have to consider it when you adjust the belt with the adjuster "shell".

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 07 2019 8:09am
by fechter
Allex wrote:
Aug 07 2019 3:08am
I prefer to have the primary belt a bit loose. One klick from the factory setting makes it more silent and more efficient. It never slipped on me. And yes ones you tighten the motor bolts the belt tightens up, so you have to consider it when you adjust the belt with the adjuster "shell".
I tried to research what the optimum belt tension is, but measuring it is difficult. I noticed the power consumption with the wheel off the ground was a lot higher than I would expect, so I tried loosening the primary belt tension by one click and it made a measurable improvement (but not huge). I have had no issues with belt skipping. Belt skipping will be more likely during heavy regen, but my controller does not have regen. It seems the factory tension is a bit on the high side.

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 09 2019 11:58am
by Joachim
he rear pulleys are as crooked as a hoop! the belt goes back and forth over the pulley teeth
from left to right, causing strange wear and tear :(

Re: Sur-Ron - Belt upgrade KIT

Posted: Aug 09 2019 2:19pm
by Allex
Did you ever drop your bike or lean it hard on something touching with the rear pulley?
Was the package damaged in any way upon receive?
Try to put the pulley on a glass surface a check if it is really crooked.