1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

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teslanv   100 MW

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1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

Post by teslanv » Apr 04 2019 11:54am

Hi All,

Well, it's been almost 5 years since I did the MXUS 3K group buy (with great success), and after running my own custom ebike biz for a few years now, I think it's time to do it again.

I'm going to be ordering a batch of the very popular 1500W (continuous) rated 35mm DD Hub Motors. Some other sellers brand it as "The Edge" motor. I just call it a 35mm DD Hub Motor. But I have it made to specs that most of us here will appreciate.

The Specs Include:
  • "V2" Cast Aluminum Stator
  • 0.35mm Laminations for ~90% efficiency
  • 2.5mm2 (~11AWG) Phase Wires
  • Hall Sensors + 10K NTC Thermistor Temp Sensor (6 Wires, 1 set)
  • N38 Curved Magnets for slightly improved Magnetic Flux vs. the standard straight magnets
  • Fits 135mm Drop-Outs with a 7-Speed Freewheel without much fuss. (3K Motors have a hard time with 7-speed cassettes, and are usually a bit wider)
  • Winding Options: 4T (11 RPM/Volt) or 6T (8.5 RPM/Volt)
I normally sell these on my web site as laced kits, or in complete ebike builds. They have become my "Go To" motor for almost all ebike except for the fat bike builds which require the wider flange design of the 3000W motors. They take the same current (for a given winding) as the MXUS 3K-Turbo but weigh 1.52 Kg less (7.62Kg vs 9.14Kg) than a MXUS 3000W motor. (Of course the torque is slightly less due to the 10mm stator width difference). I typically run these at 3000W peak, with Temp rollback from a CA3 Display. If you really want to push the limits, 5000W is probably feasible on the 4T winding for short sprints as fast as 50+ MPH. For most folks this is adequate speed and power, with an appreciably more nimble ride quality over heavier hub motors.

So Here is how the Group Buy Will Work:
  • I'm only Shipping to the USA & Canada. Sorry EU & AUS guys. Just too much hassle to ship outside of North America, and the double shipping won't really make much financial sense.
  • I'm only selling Bare Hub Motors. No Laced Wheel options. The logistics just get too messy. The point here is to keep things simple and CHEAP.
  • One Motor will be $xxx + Ground Shipping Cost (About $xx for the Continental USA, and About $xx for Canada)
  • Two Motors can ship in one box easily, so I can drop the price to $xxx/Motor for multiples of 2 motors) Cost to ship 2 motors is About $xx for Continental USA & $xx for Canada)
  • Tell me what winding(s) you want. Options are 4T or 6T (see above). Again, just trying to keep things simple with the two most common motor speeds. If ordering multiple motors, you can mix & match windings if you like.
  • Order/Payment deadline is Sunday, April 14, 11:59 p.m.
  • Pre-pay With PayPal or By Personal Check. (PM Me for a PayPal invoice or my mailing address.)
  • It will take about 6-8 Weeks for the motors to arrive, (Ocean Freight). I'll Ship them all out within 1 week of receiving them. That puts the delivery timeline to you somewhere around Early to Mid June.
Post a response in this thread if you want to place and order, and send me a PM for Payment instructions.

Cheers and Happy Building!

~Teslanv (a.k.a. Barent with West Coast Electric Cycles)
35mm DD Hub Motor 2.jpg
35mm-Lams.jpg
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V2-Stator.jpg
V2-Stator.jpg (128.91 KiB) Viewed 1715 times
35mm DD Hub Motor.pdf
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy

Post by teslanv » Apr 05 2019 9:42am

For those who asked...
Here is a simple Excel Spreadsheet to help you determine speed and current limits for your motor-wheel set-up.
35mm Motor Calculator.xlsx
(14.96 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by calfeetwenty » Apr 05 2019 11:41am

This is kind of an out of the way thread. You may want to put a link in the classified section. I would but I don't feel it is my place to do that.
Electra 7D/BBSHD, 24 spd hybrid drive 52 volt....mods coming
Electra 7D Fat/Mxus 3000 Turbo, 72 volt.
Paratrooper Pro/BBS02/Alfine 8, 52 volt...back to regular bike
KMX Trike 1500 Edge 72 volt
Luna Cargo/ possible 2wd...on the back burner again
Vector Typhoon QS 205/50 6T half done
Easy Racer LWB recumbent, Bafang G310 stealth...soon
Hp Velotechnik scorpion fs 26 Mxus 30mm cassette motor...soon

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by calfeetwenty » Apr 05 2019 11:53am

teslanv wrote:
Apr 05 2019 9:42am
For those who asked...
Here is a simple Excel Spreadsheet to help you determine speed and current limits for your motor-wheel set-up.
35mm Motor Calculator.xlsx
Nice pdf. I was wondering what the turn count was.....Thanks
Electra 7D/BBSHD, 24 spd hybrid drive 52 volt....mods coming
Electra 7D Fat/Mxus 3000 Turbo, 72 volt.
Paratrooper Pro/BBS02/Alfine 8, 52 volt...back to regular bike
KMX Trike 1500 Edge 72 volt
Luna Cargo/ possible 2wd...on the back burner again
Vector Typhoon QS 205/50 6T half done
Easy Racer LWB recumbent, Bafang G310 stealth...soon
Hp Velotechnik scorpion fs 26 Mxus 30mm cassette motor...soon

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy

Post by teslanv » Apr 05 2019 5:43pm

calfeetwenty wrote:
Apr 05 2019 11:41am
This is kind of an out of the way thread. You may want to put a link in the classified section. I would but I don't feel it is my place to do that.
It's in the Online Marketplace, Items for Sale - New. Pretty Sure this is the proper place. Or did you mean on the facebook group???
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by Baron » Apr 06 2019 1:20am

This motor is awesome, I have a 4T laced in a 17" moto wheel and it power wheelies my Kona Stinky at 72V 50A. Way more power than I need, and it handled the temperatures pretty well, ferrofluid helps. I think I've found the sweetspot at 64V 50A for mostly offroad riding. I think the 6T you're offering is an interesting choice, it would probably be better than the 4T for offroad, where not as much top end speed is needed and it wouldn't heat up as much as the 4T.

I believe this motor is on the Grin motor simulator (in 5T only) if anyone wants to experiment with different configs.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by davideserin » Apr 06 2019 1:42am

Is there any way to create a sub group of buyers from Europe? I’m happy to set it up and organise it if anyone is interested. I’m in London uk.


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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by calfeetwenty » Apr 06 2019 6:24am

teslanv wrote:
Apr 05 2019 9:42am
For those who asked...
Here is a simple Excel Spreadsheet to help you determine speed and current limits for your motor-wheel set-up.
35mm Motor Calculator.xlsx
I really like this spreadsheet. Do you have one for a 45mm Mxus or a 50mm Qs?
Electra 7D/BBSHD, 24 spd hybrid drive 52 volt....mods coming
Electra 7D Fat/Mxus 3000 Turbo, 72 volt.
Paratrooper Pro/BBS02/Alfine 8, 52 volt...back to regular bike
KMX Trike 1500 Edge 72 volt
Luna Cargo/ possible 2wd...on the back burner again
Vector Typhoon QS 205/50 6T half done
Easy Racer LWB recumbent, Bafang G310 stealth...soon
Hp Velotechnik scorpion fs 26 Mxus 30mm cassette motor...soon

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 07 2019 1:18am

Baron,

So you are using a 16s instead of a 20s battery pack now ?

Going up any steep hills where you live ?

What kind of speeds are you getting up to on flat ground ?
Baron wrote:
Apr 06 2019 1:20am
This motor is awesome, I have a 4T laced in a 17" moto wheel and it power wheelies my Kona Stinky at 72V 50A. Way more power than I need, and it handled the temperatures pretty well, ferrofluid helps. I think I've found the sweetspot at 64V 50A for mostly offroad riding. I think the 6T you're offering is an interesting choice, it would probably be better than the 4T for offroad, where not as much top end speed is needed and it wouldn't heat up as much as the 4T.

Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Apr 07 2019 1:28am, edited 1 time in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 07 2019 1:26am

Barent ,

The hub looks to be a 36 spoke hole motor ?

I would like to see how the wiring looks up against the inside drop out.
( I have hubs that have the wires coming out of the end of the axle, so I like the idea of it coming out on the inside of the drop out )

What controller and cost of it that are you offering for / with this hub ?

I already have a number of hubs, and must sell most of them before getting something else, so I will miss your deadline . However ... this hub looks to be just what I would like in the Future on a Tadpole Full Suspension Trike .
( When F.S. Tadpole trike frames become available , that are wider and longer than the current narrow and short W.B. trikes )

So in other words there is a market for more of those hubs than the few responses that you will get in the very short amount of time before the 14th.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy

Post by teslanv » Apr 08 2019 8:18am

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Apr 07 2019 1:26am
The hub looks to be a 36 spoke hole motor ?
What controller and cost of it that are you offering for / with this hub ?
Yes, 36 Spoke Holes. Specifically, 3.4mm Diameter, for up to 12G spokes.

I have ran this motor with a variety of 6FET and 12FET Sine Wave Xie Chang controllers with good results. However, I am likely going to be moving my controller offerings to the Grin Phaserunner. The Phaserunner is the ideal controller for these motors, with great features, True FOC function and just enough current output to get these motors pretty warm, but not overpower them.
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by teslanv » Apr 08 2019 8:39am

calfeetwenty wrote:
Apr 06 2019 6:24am
I really like this spreadsheet. Do you have one for a 45mm Mxus or a 50mm Qs?
Actually, I did one a while ago...
Here it is.
MXUS 3000W Calculator.xlsx
(14.02 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 08 2019 11:02am

For readers who are fairly new to ES, this is a highly desirable motor that few people stock, and is rarely available. When fitted with a 6-speed/7-speed freewheel, it appears to be a fairly normal hubmotor, but is capable of excellent performance at a reasonable weight.

Most similar motors have a thin stamped steel core, and the cast aluminum core of this model acts as a heat sponge, which allows the builder to dramatically raise the temporary peak amps during acceleration.

0.50mm laminations are common, but the 0.35mm lams on this one reduce eddy current heat, so this model runs cooler in the first place.

a common first step to hot rodding is to increase the phase wire diameter, and this model already has the fat wires.

Temperature probes are cheap, but you must disassemble the motor to install it. This model already has a temp sensor installed, should you decide to hook it up.

I purchased a hub from WCEC a while back, and ordered it laced to a 17-inch moped rim with moped DOT tire (roughly a hair shorter than a 24-inch bicycle rim). It arrived well packed, and performance is outstanding.

I would not hesitate to purchase from WCEC again.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by Baron » Apr 08 2019 10:48pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Apr 07 2019 1:18am
Baron,

So you are using a 16s instead of a 20s battery pack now ?

Going up any steep hills where you live ?

What kind of speeds are you getting up to on flat ground ?
I have a programmable controller so have tested 12s - 24s battery configurations. With the 4t motor in a 23.5" nominal wheel (17" moto rim), I get speeds of about 30mph with 12s, 40mph at 16s, and 50 mph at 20s, which is just ludicrous on a mountain bike and I only tested that once just to see how far I could push it. The throttle was also super touchy at 20s so offroading was kind of sketchy, although the throttle ramping could probably be tuned with a cycle analyst? Overall I prefer 12s and 16s with my config. Hills are not really a problem with ferrofluid and a smaller diameter wheel.

If I had to do it again I would probably opt for a 24" mtb wheel rather than a 17" moto wheel, which is pretty much overkill for the power I'm feeding it. I'm only pushing 64v 50a max which is perfectly doable on a strong mtb rim and would save a lot of weight where it matters. Cheers

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by Neanderthul » Apr 10 2019 1:51pm

Hello, I am in the early design stages of my scratch build but I am temped to go in on this. I was planning on buying the DD45_STD by Grin

https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... 5-std.html

I will probably run with a 52v 16Ah pack, and I am going for 30MPH top speed, but I want to have hard acceleration. My pedal drivetrain will only be single speed.

Should I go DD35 or DD45? I gotta think fast haha.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by mrbill » Apr 10 2019 7:06pm

Thanks, Barent, for offering these motors again at a good price.

Can we assume that the critical dimensions are the same as the last batch you had in stock?

In particular, could you confirm the following dimensions that I used last year for this motor in Grin's spoke length calculator?
Flange diameter (center-to-center spoke holes): 232mm
Flange spacing (center-to-center): 35mm
Dishing offset: -1.5mm
# spokes: 36
spoke hole diameter: 3.4mm

Not all of these are shown in the technical drawing you uploaded.

Thanks.
Bill Bushnell
http://mrbill.homeip.net/
Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by highlysuspect » Apr 10 2019 9:04pm

Hello everyone,
I was routed here from a reddit ebike thread and I’m so interested in this motor that I just had to create an account...
I’m such a noob though and don’t know electric motors AT ALL, but from what I’ve gleaned from multiple sources so far is that I want 1000-1500W rear hub direct drive to install on an older heavy-built downhill 26” hardtail I have...
I guess I trust what you’re all saying - that this a good motor, and I’d like to buy in, but I have a few questions:
I assume my LBS can lace it into a rim - what double-walled rim do you recommend to run 26x2.35 tires and where do they get the right 12g spokes?
I have a single-wheel trailer that mounts by a QR skewer that I want to pull camping gear with - is this compatible or does the wiring get in the way?
Will a 7 speed freewheel spun onto this keep the width at 135mm?
Does this hub provide regenerative braking?
Does Grin carry everything else I need to complete the build? (actually probably get triangle battery from EM3V though...) and if so, which components would you recommend to get the best performance and longevity from this motor?

Thank you all for your help

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy

Post by teslanv » Apr 11 2019 9:38am

highlysuspect wrote:
Apr 10 2019 9:04pm
Hello everyone,
I was routed here from a reddit ebike thread and I’m so interested in this motor that I just had to create an account...
I’m such a noob though and don’t know electric motors AT ALL, but from what I’ve gleaned from multiple sources so far is that I want 1000-1500W rear hub direct drive to install on an older heavy-built downhill 26” hardtail I have...
I guess I trust what you’re all saying - that this a good motor, and I’d like to buy in, but I have a few questions:
I assume my LBS can lace it into a rim - what double-walled rim do you recommend to run 26x2.35 tires and where do they get the right 12g spokes?
I have a single-wheel trailer that mounts by a QR skewer that I want to pull camping gear with - is this compatible or does the wiring get in the way?
Will a 7 speed freewheel spun onto this keep the width at 135mm?
Does this hub provide regenerative braking?
Does Grin carry everything else I need to complete the build? (actually probably get triangle battery from EM3V though...) and if so, which components would you recommend to get the best performance and longevity from this motor?

Thank you all for your help
Double Wall Rim: I like the SunRingle MTX39 Rims. Nice and Strong, and easy to lace.
Spokes: Sapim Strong 2.3/2.0 Single Butted is what I use. The Wheel builder will need to calculate the length.
You will likely need to rig up some kind of custom bracket to use a trailer. Normal QR Skewer mounted trailers don't play well with hub motor axles.
You should be able to use a 7-speed freewheel on this motor without having to open up your drop-out much. An axle Spacer may be needed to get clearance for the smallest sprocket.
The Hub is capable of regen braking, if your controller supports this feature.
Grin carries everything you would need, as do I. (I am a reseller for Grin.) The Phaserunner is my recommended controller for this motor. Pair that with a CA3 and a battery that can output ~60A continuous and you should be good to go.
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by mrbill » Apr 11 2019 10:18am

teslanv wrote:
Apr 11 2019 9:38am
highlysuspect wrote:
Apr 10 2019 9:04pm
Will a 7 speed freewheel spun onto this keep the width at 135mm?
You should be able to use a 7-speed freewheel on this motor without having to open up your drop-out much. An axle Spacer may be needed to get clearance for the smallest sprocket.
I use a 7-speed freewheel with this motor in dropouts that are nominally 135mm OLD. I find that I need to spread the dropouts to about 142-144mm to accommodate the freewheel. This may be difficult to do with a stiff frame.

I need about 5-6mm of spacers on the freewheel side. The DNP freewheels have a higher stack height than the Shimano by about 2mm as they sit further outboard. The Shimano freewheels sit far enough inboard that I had to replace the hex socket bolts securing the motor cover on the freewheel side with bolts featuring low-profile heads to avoid conflict with the derailleur cage when the chain is on the large sprocket.

I also use a 2-3mm spacer on the non-drive side to increase space for the cable, improve disc brake alignment, and to provide a larger clamping surface against the inside face of the left-side dropout. I wish hub motors came with flared and serrated nuts to press against the inside face of the dropout, similar to what one finds on a standard rear wheel. The tiny surface flat at the end of the milled hub motor axle is too small for an aluminum dropout (for example).

On one of my bikes that has a stiff titanium rear triangle, spreading the dropouts to accommodate the wheel requires the proverbial "two men and a team of horses". I'm considering having these dropouts cold-set to 145 or 150mm to ease wheel installation.
Bill Bushnell
http://mrbill.homeip.net/
Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 11 2019 10:28am

As a side note, with this amount of power, you don't need as many gears, so I recommend a 6-speed megarange, and simply adjust the stops on your 7-speed derailleur.

If you give a modest motor a tough job, it will struggle to get up to top speed, and that means it will spend a lot of time at full amps.

If you give this motor 3,000W, it will accelerate fast enough that it will only draw the full 60A for a couple seconds, and then it will cruise at top speed at around 20A or so. The aluminum core will absorb the acceleration amps and then shed them over time.

Buying a more affordable 28mm wide stator with a thin steel core (and heat-producing fatter laminations) doesn't sound like it's a big difference, but it makes all the difference.

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy by Teslanv $200 + Shipping

Post by mrbill » Apr 11 2019 12:07pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Apr 11 2019 10:28am
As a side note, with this amount of power, you don't need as many gears, so I recommend a 6-speed megarange, and simply adjust the stops on your 7-speed derailleur.
It's true that you don't need as many gears, but it's still nice to have a wide range. Most 6-speed freewheels are limited to 14-28. A few older stock freewheels come with a 13. DNP makes 7-speed freewheels with 11-28 or 11-32 being common.
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

Post by teslanv » Apr 14 2019 8:37pm

Thanks for those who pre-ordered.

I'll continue to provide shipping updates on this thread.

Cheers.

Barent a.k.a. Teslanv
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

Post by teslanv » Apr 26 2019 9:27am

Order Update:
The Manufacturer has informed me that the motor manufacturing will be completed and packaged by April 29th, and will be sent to the freight forwarder then. I should have the BOL info sometime next week.

Thanks all,

Barent
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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

Post by rowbiker » Apr 26 2019 9:55am

I realize this "buy" is closed, but do you have these motors for sale out of your store's stock by any chance? I'd sent you an email at your website a week ago but haven't had a reply. Thanks!

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Re: 1500W (35mm) V2 DD Hub Motor Group Buy *CLOSED*

Post by teslanv » Jun 05 2019 8:52am

Update: Motors will be arriving at my shop on Friday (6/7/19). I'll be getting them shipped out by the following Monday, so most of you should be seeing them next week sometime.

Cheers!

Teslanv
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