Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Merlin » Apr 26 2019 4:21pm

yup...i like it riding my bike ...and after parking carry 2 phones in my pockets because leaving it on the bike you ride home without display :D

anyway....if i would build, develop something i would offer both ;)

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 26 2019 5:28pm

This is exactly the point. If you worry about crashing your phone, there are at least two solutions:
1. Don't crash. Frankly, when I crash hard, the phone is my least worry.
2. If you like to crash, get a $25 phone (and a good helmet). Mount it permanently, or carry it in your pocket (another security feature - think of it like a face panel on a stereo, especially, now that the new BT modules support keyless start via phone).

The big value in having a phone-based dash is it's updateability and connectivity. The UI can be refreshed new features added with ease just via software update. Integration with navigation, cloud. The sky is limit. Try to do that with a dumb display.
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Apr 26 2019 4:07pm
Merlin wrote:
Apr 24 2019 8:47pm
when you crash and your 600/800$ phone cracks too we can talk about fancy wireless displays.
Last time I looked, iPhone 4s were selling for $25 on eBay. $50 for a 5s. Frankly the complaint is unwarranted given the tremendous ecosystem of used iPhones and iPods out there. And we haven't even talked about the huge inventory of used (i.e. cheap) Android phones. If you are worried about $800 then you are worrying about the wrong thing.

M

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Merlin » Apr 26 2019 6:12pm

so your controller has including a usb port to charge the phone....thats great.
or do i have to build dc/dc and usb to charge the phone by myself?

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icherouveim   1 kW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by icherouveim » Apr 27 2019 12:57am

Hello again,
I think the decision is made, even if we give 100 advices for a better product we cannot change their plans.
The future will show if it will be a good or a bad controller.
I don't know how the new system will work but if it will be like the old controller then it won't be very innovating. For example with the old controller just to change OVS setting you have to reflash eeprome thru the phone every time you change it and then to restart the controller!!
It doesn't work in real time like with nucular and adaptto controllers.


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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by John in CR » Apr 29 2019 5:06pm

What motors has this been tested on? Any low inductance high Kv hubbies?


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TorgueRPM   10 mW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by TorgueRPM » May 24 2019 4:41pm

It's awesome to see VESC software in an Ebike controller

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 03 2019 5:31pm

This controller will be pretty impressive.

It will use the PV app...which has seen tons of development. IMHO, it's the best EV app there is and there's new development coming all the time!

If you don't know about the app...
1. Dashboard that shows all the important stuff like speed, watts, amps, voltage, miles, temps, etc.
2. GPS app...enter where you want to go and follow the screen prompts.
3. Controller programming for the entire PV product line.
4. BMS read support for a variety of smart BT capable BMS's.

An LCD running canbus or whatever is lame by comparison. The app does way more than any dedicated LCD and does it at the resolution of your phone. I have other controllers and dashboard options and they are not as good.

One of the limitations of the older PV controllers is the relatively low eRPM...50,000. This will be running at whatever VESC can do or maybe a little less.

Since this is VESC based, probably the mobile VESC app will program the controller? I wonder if the PV app will?
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by madin88 » Jun 06 2019 12:13pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:31pm
An LCD running canbus or whatever is lame by comparison. The app does way more than any dedicated LCD and does it at the resolution of your phone. I have other controllers and dashboard options and they are not as good.
I always would prefer a dedicated, solid display with a solid mounting hardware to the steerer or head tube and then having throttle, e-brake and other things directly connected there on front with only one single wire going to the controller.
and btw: visability on smartphone displays in direct sunlight is ofter quite poor and waterproofing could be also an issue.

How often do you need GPS navigation if you go for a ride?
In my case less than 5% and then i use my own phone because i would not want to buy a second SIM card or mobile phone contract just for this..

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 07 2019 11:29am

madin88 wrote:
Jun 06 2019 12:13pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jun 03 2019 5:31pm
An LCD running canbus or whatever is lame by comparison. The app does way more than any dedicated LCD and does it at the resolution of your phone. I have other controllers and dashboard options and they are not as good.
I always would prefer a dedicated, solid display with a solid mounting hardware to the steerer or head tube and then having throttle, e-brake and other things directly connected there on front with only one single wire going to the controller.
and btw: visability on smartphone displays in direct sunlight is ofter quite poor and waterproofing could be also an issue.

How often do you need GPS navigation if you go for a ride?
In my case less than 5% and then i use my own phone because i would not want to buy a second SIM card or mobile phone contract just for this..
Sounds like the Nucular controller is the right option for you. It has all of those things. Of course its proprietary to a single controller product line too!

The PV app and monitoring module is usable on any EV, not just PV controllers.

I doubt you will see the effort put into the PV phone app and module get thrown away to do what you want. A low end LCD option is just not as good as this is. I'll live with maybe a little less visibility for the level of functionality I get in the PV solution. Water penetration is easily dealt with. Just about any phone out there has cases made for them to keep out water. Handle bar mounting for phone has been done a thousand times. As a super quick solution, wrap the phone in some kapton to keep out water.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Jun 07 2019 11:34am

Most phones, even very old ones, can be used as dashboards. Android or iOS, doesn't matter. As it was pointed out here earlier, those phone can be had for next to nothing, so they can be used as permanent dashboards. With that said, a specially made dashboard can be added later if enough people want it. It's just not the focus right now.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by andrebandre » Jun 09 2019 9:55pm

danielrlee wrote:
Apr 24 2019 1:22am
Powervelocity.com wrote:No on display. That’s too old school.
That's a shame. A deal breaker even. I much prefer dedicated purpose built hardware as a UI than messing around with smartphones and apps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Is there any chance you'd ever reconsider this decision in the future?
+1

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 10 2019 11:13am

andrebandre wrote:
Jun 09 2019 9:55pm
danielrlee wrote:
Apr 24 2019 1:22am
Powervelocity.com wrote:No on display. That’s too old school.
That's a shame. A deal breaker even. I much prefer dedicated purpose built hardware as a UI than messing around with smartphones and apps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Is there any chance you'd ever reconsider this decision in the future?
+1
There's a new module coming out soon. I think focus will be on the phone based app since there is so much functionality here that an LCD based option would limit significantly. The new module will bring new features that have been in demand for a while. Honestly, you guys that want an LCD are going to miss out on most of the functionality the phone app has in it. I've been a steady user of the app and modules since nearly day one and I have yet to find it to be bothersome or difficult and certainly NOT a deal breaker in any way.

This is the current module that communicates with the EV and your phone. There's capability in the telemetry module for future growth in differing directions. In the lower left area are 4 through holes for connectivity to things that can use I2C. It's not yet implemented for anything, but that's just programming and firmware. It's not impossible to implement an LCD based dash board that connects here. Of course, the question that comes to mind for me is, why would you want to? The phone app is excellent!

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Jun 10 2019 11:19am

ElectricGod wrote:
Jun 10 2019 11:13am
... Of course, the question that comes to mind for me is, why would you want to? The phone app is excellent!
+1
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by coolbobjoe » Jun 10 2019 11:42am

One more thing to charge, turn on, and have connectivity issues with. Also almost always harder to see under bright sunlight also. Hardwired has peace of mind. That some bluetooth glitch isnt going to leave you stranded or the likes. Had quite a few dropped bluetooth handshakes with a new Samsung S9. Not saying it doesn't or cannot work. But sometimes dedicated hardware is nice. Personally I already have too many screens on the bike. Bms, cav3, bluetooth from bms, and now bluetooth from controller. If the app could be run simultaneously in multi window mode along with my bms app which is highly more accurate on wattage display I would be more keen to using both or even switching. But resolution is the key there. Multiple decimal points please... otherwise calibration will rarely be accurate

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by coolbobjoe » Jun 10 2019 11:42am

Also it's nice to be able to read motor temp. Not just controller temp!

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 10 2019 12:27pm

coolbobjoe wrote:
Jun 10 2019 11:42am
One more thing to charge, turn on, and have connectivity issues with. Also almost always harder to see under bright sunlight also. Hardwired has peace of mind. That some bluetooth glitch isnt going to leave you stranded or the likes. Had quite a few dropped bluetooth handshakes with a new Samsung S9. Not saying it doesn't or cannot work. But sometimes dedicated hardware is nice. Personally I already have too many screens on the bike. Bms, cav3, bluetooth from bms, and now bluetooth from controller. If the app could be run simultaneously in multi window mode along with my bms app which is highly more accurate on wattage display I would be more keen to using both or even switching. But resolution is the key there. Multiple decimal points please... otherwise calibration will rarely be accurate
Motor and controller temps have been in the app for something like 6-10 months. The app and module get regular updates so there's new functionality coming out pretty regularly. This is old functionality! Some things need new hardware (module) if you want the latest functions and others are just new stuff in the phone app. If something is hardware based, there's a chance you could need a new module to take advantage of some new feature, but then the app is always backwards compatible with which ever version of the module you have too.

The app and module have pretty good connectivity and lots of redundancy around BT connectivity. If you do disconnect, it will probably go unnoticed as reconnecting gets retried with very good results. Early on in development BT connectivity issues were a priority to make sure it was solid and reconnected rapidly. That has NOT been an issue in a very long time. Comparing what you get in a Chinese implementation with a super cheap BT module and what's in the module and app is not a fair comparison.

I can't speak for your phone specifically. I personally own 6 phones that I use for testing. I don't know how many Vadym has, but it's safe to say connectivity over BT is pretty good. I rarely notice BT connectivity issues and they never leave me stranded...NOT EVER. The controller will work with or without connectivity working.

Smart BMS access is supported in the app. You currently can't program them, but you can view status. So that's one less app you need to run. The PV app has done this for something like 6 months. You can completely eliminate that CA. The module and app do everything a CA does and in a much nicer format.

The module and app have various calibration functions and you can manually set your shunt value if it doesn't display the actual current. This all functionality that has been in place for something like a year.

It sounds like I eliminated your BMS app and the CA and put 100% of that functionality into the PV app before you even knew you wanted us to!
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 10 2019 12:29pm

coolbobjoe wrote:
Jun 10 2019 11:42am
Also it's nice to be able to read motor temp. Not just controller temp!
Done! Read my other comment. It has been implemented for a long time now.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Jun 10 2019 12:53pm

coolbobjoe wrote:
Jun 10 2019 11:42am
Also almost always harder to see under bright sunlight also.
Just went out for a spin on my bike in bright sunlight. No issues reading the iPhone display running the PowerVelocity app -- even through dark sunglasses and a tinted visor. And prominently shown below the speedo was both controller and motor temps side-by-side.

Note: I don't know about Android, but the iPhone works splendidly outdoors.

Michael
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 10 2019 1:13pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jun 10 2019 12:53pm
coolbobjoe wrote:
Jun 10 2019 11:42am
Also almost always harder to see under bright sunlight also.
Just went out for a spin on my bike in bright sunlight. No issues reading the iPhone display running the PowerVelocity app -- even through dark sunglasses and a tinted visor. And prominently shown below the speedo was both controller and motor temps side-by-side.

Note: I don't know about Android, but the iPhone works splendidly outdoors.

Michael
I test on both platforms. IF there is an issue with visibility, it's just becasue some phones don't do as well in the sun as others. That's not the fault of the app in any way. My oldest phone is a Samsung S3 and IMHO, it's just fine in the sun.

I was thinking about charging. All my EV's have onboard USB charging. This is super easy to implement.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by ElectricGod » Jun 10 2019 3:43pm

The current PowerVelocity app:

I can't show active data since I'm away from any EV's ATM (At work). I can't show the BMS page for the same reason. I'd like to see any dedicated LCD solution do all of this!

Dashboard: (Notice the dual temps)

Image

GPS app:

Image

Slide out menu:

Image

Setting screen:

Image
Image

BT scanning/selection: (Found in the settings screen - CONNECT button)

Image

Performance statistics:

Image

Controller settings: (Notice how in settings the app is looking for my controller.)

Image
Image
Image
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by coolbobjoe » Jun 10 2019 11:06pm

How do you read motor temp when the seller didnt have any point on BT module for input nor would advise on it? Coming from experience of returned controller due to heavy flaws like the onboard temp sensor being DOA. No temps displayed was even more fun

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by madin88 » Jun 11 2019 4:18am

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Jun 07 2019 11:34am
Most phones, even very old ones, can be used as dashboards. Android or iOS, doesn't matter. As it was pointed out here earlier, those phone can be had for next to nothing, so they can be used as permanent dashboards.
I would like to have used such older phones with not that great resultion, but then i noticed that single screens like speed, rpm watt or so did overlap and one was above the other which did look messy. Hopefully this has been fixed now!

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