Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

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Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: Updated: PV NextGen FOC 130v 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Feb 06 2020 3:07pm

The issue with the password reset is resolved on the website, you should be able to request a reset link and get the new password right away.

The torque control is superb with three sensor/phase setups. The throttle response feels very smooth and natural.

The controller temp is monitored all the time by the firmware and safety power rollbacks are autoMagic.
Technically, it should be impossible to overheat it. You can also monitor temperatures through the phone/watch apps.

Mosfets in controllers blow up under load/acceleration not so much due to the heat though, but rather due to voltage spikes because of a sub par hardware design. That's one big reason why there are not so many reliable controllers in >90v range because higher voltage requires much more careful approach in the design that pushes up the cost of development.

A six phase motor can be treated as a two motor setup. You can use a throttle input on one controller and command torque to the second controller via the CAN connection. The current/torque will be balanced. Of course, both controllers need to be programmed identically and the firmware handles that nicely out of the box pushing configuration to slave controllers from the master. There is also a traction control option for multi controller setups.

Regen is variable and works very well but one thing to remember is that it's not the controller but your battery that imposes hard limits on how much current you can feed back into it. Most li-ion chemistries can't take more than 0.5C of the charge current. Some allow supercharging at 1C or more but then you have to actively manage the quick temperature rise on the cells.
John in CR wrote:
Feb 05 2020 1:57am

I need 2 to drive my 6phase HubMonster powered MadAss that has a 31s pack with which I run a fresh off the charger max voltage of 128V. As long as torque throttle control is great, then I'd run each controller at 150A battery side 250-300A phase current. The motor is well ventilated, so it can handle at least that current. Some guys have run theirs much higher against my recommendations without nearly the cooling I have. I just haven't had controllers capable of more than that current. I'd push it higher temporarily if you want as long as I can see controller temp, because I'd rather run conservative than risk having to change out controllers more than the initial time, as it's pretty involved on this bike.

BTW, I tried to recover my password but have yet to get the email to reset, and the site won't let me proceed with the preorder of 2 controllers without logging in since it recognized my email address JohnCF*****@yahoo.com . You should be able to look me up with that portion of my email since I'm a long-time customer.

If you want me to truly limit test one, I do have a very low inductance v1 speed wind 50mm wide QS273 that's vented and I've pushed it at over 400 battery side amps. I couldn't run it continuously with a 31s pack due to high iron losses, but I could do some short speed bursts. I've never blown a controller at speed anyway, so the real test would be high current and high voltage at partial throttle attacking a mountain road, and I've got a kilometers long 20% continuous grade road that leads to a wind farm on top of the mountain perfect for limit testing anything by accelerating hard out of the switchbacks. The regen better not go out on me, because the scary part is coming back down with mechanical brakes.

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by John in CR » Feb 06 2020 4:48pm

Even with the automatic current limiting based on temps (whether adjustable by the user or not), it's good to display controller temps. Real time temps of motor and controller helps the user learn the limits of his system and how riding style and conditions affect temps. Once you gain that feel monitoring temps becomes unnecessary and you look at temps only occasionally to confirm your "feel" of your system is well calibrated, as well as to see the effects of changes in controller settings. There's already a temp sensor, so add it to reported stats.

Whats the wait time or do you now carry stock?

Also note that I'm sending a PM on a separate topic.

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Feb 06 2020 6:30pm

Yes, you can monitor the temperatures real time via a mobile device. There is a chance we'll be adding a small display for things like these down the road. And will have logging eventually as well, so you can analyze trip data at any later time.

The wait time is currently approx 1 month which means if you place an order now, you'll get receive it sometime in early March.

John in CR wrote:
Feb 06 2020 4:48pm
Even with the automatic current limiting based on temps (whether adjustable by the user or not), it's good to display controller temps. Real time temps of motor and controller helps the user learn the limits of his system and how riding style and conditions affect temps. Once you gain that feel monitoring temps becomes unnecessary and you look at temps only occasionally to confirm your "feel" of your system is well calibrated, as well as to see the effects of changes in controller settings. There's already a temp sensor, so add it to reported stats.

Whats the wait time or do you now carry stock?

Also note that I'm sending a PM on a separate topic.

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Mywpn » Feb 14 2020 6:54am

So too some degree, this controller is torque limiting when accelerating from a standing start? And is this adjustable? I’m not interested in smooth transition into power. But instant maximum capacity from 0 rpm.

Is this controller capable on being programmed for 400 battery amps and 600 phase amps with the current software?

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Bartosh » Feb 14 2020 3:12pm

+1, good question, I'm also interested.

Some more questions if I may. Is PID tuning possible? As you mentioned it's based on VESC, is it possible to use vesc tool? Recent firmware / features supported (like improved sensorless)? I mean how far is it vesc compatible?

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Feb 14 2020 3:41pm

The default throttle control is current/torque which is what you want to have on most surface vehicles like cars, bikes, skateboards, etc. The full torque is available at 0 rpm with this control. The limit is applied up to the programmed values and/or hardware limits. That’s regardless of the control type you use.

Duty cycle control would be more appropriate for aircraft.

Throttle curves are adjustable. The controller runs the latest VESC firmware plus more custom features like charging mode that allows to use any DC source with voltage below the battery target voltage. So, it has all features of the VESC firmware plus more.

High frequency injection is there as well. I haven’t tested it enough to recommend it. For now, halls are likely the most reliable way to go. It runs regular sensorless pretty well too. Just sometimes needs a slight push. HFI will improve over time and will be reliable as well.




Bartosh wrote:
Feb 14 2020 3:12pm
+1, good question, I'm also interested.

Some more questions if I may. Is PID tuning possible? As you mentioned it's based on VESC, is it possible to use vesc tool? Recent firmware / features supported (like improved sensorless)? I mean how far is it vesc compatible?

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bee   100 W

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by bee » Feb 19 2020 11:35pm

do you ship these to Canada?
Chalo wrote:Hydraulic [suspension] is just vanity and moto-fetishism at anything in the range of attainable bicycle speeds.
2002 Devinci Magma - 117v GNG


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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by maSch » Mar 01 2020 4:48am

hey, I am following this thread since long, very nice controller indeed!
I am about to buy BMW i3 Gen2 Modules, each 48V. Originally planned a 96V set-up with a QS273/8Kw/Gen4, donor bike is GSX-R 600. Good for HiSpeed, lots of space for batteries.
Now I consider to throw in three of these modules, which would make 144V, max 150V
Q @ PV: Do you think thats a good idea with your controller?
I also tried to place an order at your shop and via PM, no reply so far, are you busy developing? (shipping to LA)
keep on rockin!
Markus

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Mar 03 2020 4:27pm

The controller is designed primarily for performance ebikes using stealth bomber style frames and alike with the total gross weight of up to 150lbs. 20kw+ on such bikes make them rockets.

For motorcycles that tend to be way heavier, you would need at least 50kw for it to ride like a motorcycle. I would also question the motor selection. Even though hubs work, middrives with some reduction would be more efficient and torqier from 0rpm due to reduction. Not to mention much better weight distribution.

This is not to say it will not work. It all depends on the priorities (desired acceleration, speed, efficiency, noise level, etc.)
maSch wrote:
Mar 01 2020 4:48am
hey, I am following this thread since long, very nice controller indeed!
I am about to buy BMW i3 Gen2 Modules, each 48V. Originally planned a 96V set-up with a QS273/8Kw/Gen4, donor bike is GSX-R 600. Good for HiSpeed, lots of space for batteries.
Now I consider to throw in three of these modules, which would make 144V, max 150V
Q @ PV: Do you think thats a good idea with your controller?
I also tried to place an order at your shop and via PM, no reply so far, are you busy developing? (shipping to LA)
keep on rockin!
Markus

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by maSch » Mar 03 2020 4:58pm

thx for your insights.
though it will bring some more pounds, I think my build will be way under 300lbs.
I prefer torque over speed, its gonne be a city cafe racer.
I hope this will work a bit with that motor, I am learning here, else I may go with a mid-motor later.
But I understand your nextGen could handle 600Amps peak, that would be way enough even for 50Kw, or am I missing something ?
So how far are you away from beeing able to ship the new controllers?
Would be great to get an idea if/when I can put my hands on your nextGen FOC.
thx

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Mar 03 2020 7:19pm

A few controllers have been shipped now and are currently being tested. Pre-orders will reopen later this months.
600A is the peak phase current. The total peak power of a controller is max voltage X max battery current.
maSch wrote:
Mar 03 2020 4:58pm
thx for your insights.
though it will bring some more pounds, I think my build will be way under 300lbs.
I prefer torque over speed, its gonne be a city cafe racer.
I hope this will work a bit with that motor, I am learning here, else I may go with a mid-motor later.
But I understand your nextGen could handle 600Amps peak, that would be way enough even for 50Kw, or am I missing something ?
So how far are you away from beeing able to ship the new controllers?
Would be great to get an idea if/when I can put my hands on your nextGen FOC.
thx

ChuckEbikeNorris   1 µW

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by ChuckEbikeNorris » Mar 04 2020 5:41pm

What are the dimensions of this new gen controller?


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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by maSch » Mar 06 2020 5:53am

Like you said in OP
I believe that you will eventually scale up this FOC (unlock more Voltage and Amps), so I assume it will grow with my needs.
Please count me in, and note that I 've sent two PMs.
I did not acquire another controller, as I am waiting for this one!
ride on

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by ChuckEbikeNorris » Mar 09 2020 5:29pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Mar 04 2020 5:46pm
225 x 48 x 94 mm
ChuckEbikeNorris wrote:
Mar 04 2020 5:41pm
What are the dimensions of this new gen controller?
Thanks for replying even tho you had the info posted in other places i ended up finding later. This is exactly what i've been waiting for. I can't believe that you are able to provide such insane power in such a small package. I'll be ordering one of these for sure!!

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by john61ct » Mar 09 2020 7:28pm

How well would this controller do for a "no fun just utility" heavy tandem / cargo bike?

Steep terrain, long climbs with 400+lbs, also rough roads so slow speeds, maybe 25-30mph top speed on the flats?

Might even go with multiple motors, FOC good for keeping them in synch right?

Can't go too small on wheel diameter since often unpaved surfaces, gravel / desert, forestry land, maybe 26" outside?

Motor recommendations? Looking at Lightning Rods, QS, maybe MXUS, Crystalyte. . .

Also, I was looking at Phaserunner, does your controller do "true FOC" and all other features it offers? Just not enough amps output I think for this use case. . .

CAv3 compatibility?

Vassili got mad at me for even asking that, "We don't need no stinkin' CA!" 8-)

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Mar 10 2020 12:12am

400lbs+ should be no problem, especially, if if you run all wheel drive. You can connect them over CAN as many as as you like and traction control will keep them in sync. 30mph should be easy even on a single motor.

FOC implementation in VESC is likely the best in its class. It is in fact FOC done the right way.

For off-road, I'd recommend a mid drive. LR would be a good choice.

CA can be made to work but it was made for non-isolated systems. This controller has the control circuit isolated from the high voltage power stage. Connecting a CA to it would defeat the isolation. This is not to mention that all data is already streamed from the controller, so adding a CA does not make a lot of sense. The data can be sent to a phone, any simple display, Internet/cloud, etc over a variety of protocols. I have been using a small OLED display for testing and will likely offer it as an option.

john61ct wrote:
Mar 09 2020 7:28pm
How well would this controller do for a "no fun just utility" heavy tandem / cargo bike?

Steep terrain, long climbs with 400+lbs, also rough roads so slow speeds, maybe 25-30mph top speed on the flats?

Might even go with multiple motors, FOC good for keeping them in synch right?

Can't go too small on wheel diameter since often unpaved surfaces, gravel / desert, forestry land, maybe 26" outside?

Motor recommendations? Looking at Lightning Rods, QS, maybe MXUS, Crystalyte. . .

Also, I was looking at Phaserunner, does your controller do "true FOC" and all other features it offers? Just not enough amps output I think for this use case. . .

CAv3 compatibility?

Vassili got mad at me for even asking that, "We don't need no stinkin' CA!" 8-)

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by john61ct » Mar 10 2020 7:38am

OK thanks a lot

Other motor recommendations? just to have choices

Thinking if two motors, a front QS for drag braking and redundancy, running on the flats

leaving the rear hub free for a Rohloff for the mid drive, assuming 125 N.m is enough

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by maSch » Mar 10 2020 8:13am

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Mar 10 2020 12:12am
I have been using a small OLED display for testing and will likely offer it as an option.
That's nice news! For me personally, it is not an option to use my fon as a dashboard-screen, because I already destroyed two times the camera (mounted on my bicycle). Maybe the cam in my fon-model (shift 6m) is weak at that point, but I love it for its modular construction. I just bought a new camera for 30€ and fixed it myself.

So I would use my phone only for adjustments (and keep in my pocket) and thus need some display for the dashboard-infos. Now, as I am placing orders for other stuff on alibaba, could you be so kind and recommend an OLED-display I could use? How would that be connected to the 24F ?
thx

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Wildnecromant » Mar 12 2020 12:57am

What about order YQEAAQOQX? Why seller not answer for my emails? I want to know shipping date

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Chin0 » Mar 25 2020 7:43am

When preorders will open again???


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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by Wildnecromant » Apr 03 2020 8:24am

Why you ignore my messages? I paid for controller! :evil:

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Re: Preorder. PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $499

Post by tylerwatts » Apr 13 2020 6:10pm

Hi powervelocity.
Do you have any experience running big RC motors with your controllers? Such as Turnigy CA120 outrunner with low inductance values? What pwm frequency can/do your controllers run at?
Please share any working examples or owner threads of such combinations.
Thank you

Cheers
Tyler

Edited typo spelling autocorrect...



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