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Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 16 2020 11:35am
by Powervelocity.com
In theory, it should work. Over CAN, the motors are synced with understanding that they are on different axles with ability to control traction. I think it would be best, however, to implement the exact logic that would be needed to keep two pairs of phases in a single motor in sync.
TorgueRPM wrote:
Oct 15 2020 5:20pm
You mention being able to connect controllers via CAN, do you think there would be any issues running a dual 3-phase/6-phase motor like a hubmonster using two controllers connected by CAN?

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
by Powervelocity.com
The hardware is capable of running AC induction motors and it's already capable of running them in the open loop mode. Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update. I think there is a change that such support will be added in the near future.

However, considering the target application for this controller which is all sorts of EVs, AC motors will generally be less desirable compared to PM motors because the latter win in size, weight, and efficiency. Tesla, despite its name, has been moving away from AC motors for a good reason. IPM motors just make more sense.

Encoders are already supported.
parabellum wrote:
Oct 15 2020 10:34pm
Are there plans for this controller running ACIM algorithms and taking sine cosine resolver or encoder input?

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 16 2020 9:43pm
by parabellum
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 17 2020 12:23pm
by Powervelocity.com
We have had good results testing IPM motors so far. As an example, a QS middrive motor tested well. Some can take 25kw bursts. They seem to be mostly IPM now, but I would make sure before buying. There is no reason why other more expensive IPM motors wouldn't work.

There is at least a couple of implementations leveraging field reluctance for VESC fw. One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.


parabellum wrote:
Oct 16 2020 9:43pm
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 17 2020 4:15pm
by Hertzelz
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 17 2020 12:23pm
We have had good results testing IPM motors so far. As an example, a QS middrive motor tested well. Some can take 25kw bursts. They seem to be mostly IPM now, but I would make sure before buying. There is no reason why other more expensive IPM motors wouldn't work.

There is at least a couple of implementations leveraging field reluctance for VESC fw. One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.


parabellum wrote:
Oct 16 2020 9:43pm
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 7:28pm
IPM motors just make more sense.


Can you recommend some IPM motor that can take 25KW and works well with your controller? (I suppose it works with backwards "field weakening" logic of IPM)
Running AC motors in FOC would be a matter of software update.
Thanks, in my understanding, when/if vesk gets full closed loop support to ACIM, you can include it in a update. Right?
When you think I could order? and when it should be shipped?

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 17 2020 5:51pm
by parabellum
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 17 2020 12:23pm
One is Maximum Torque Per Amp (MTPA) that seems most interesting. Here is more on it: https://hackaday.io/project/164932-axio ... -into-vesc

I am planning on adding this feature in the next firmware update.
Cool, I didn't know Axiom is working on VESC and MTPA seems to be next evolution step, for IPM at least. Thanks!
I have 2 spare ACIM motors on the shelf right now, but will look around for IPM to.

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 18 2020 8:23pm
by TorgueRPM
Powervelocity.com wrote:
Oct 16 2020 11:35am
In theory, it should work. Over CAN, the motors are synced with understanding that they are on different axles with ability to control traction. I think it would be best, however, to implement the exact logic that would be needed to keep two pairs of phases in a single motor in sync.
TorgueRPM wrote:
Oct 15 2020 5:20pm
You mention being able to connect controllers via CAN, do you think there would be any issues running a dual 3-phase/6-phase motor like a hubmonster using two controllers connected by CAN?

The other option is to split the throttle signal, powering the throttle with one of the controllers and running just the signal wire to the other controller.

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 21 2020 4:29am
by dkassem10
I ordered a 20kw controller 12 days ago and still no tracking number. I have tried very hard to make contact with Power velocity with no response. This should be normal to say you have stock of a controller and not be able to ship it for 2 weeks and no update to customer to let him know your not stealing his money. Very sketchy business.

Re: PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Posted: Oct 21 2020 12:21pm
by Powervelocity.com
I know this has been done before but never tested. Sinusoidal controllers use hall signal all the time to detect the rotor position.
FOC favors BEMF for the motor phase detection. Not sure how well that will work with two sets of copper coils sitting on a single stator.
TorgueRPM wrote:
Oct 18 2020 8:23pm


The other option is to split the throttle signal, powering the throttle with one of the controllers and running just the signal wire to the other controller.