jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by grindz145 » Jul 29 2012 8:04am

You've got me searching craigslist for CRXs :)

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Hillhater » Aug 02 2012 7:37pm

After about an hour of driving there was a break in the weather and we got to watch the sun rise... In front of us. That's not right...
I had failed to take the Port Wakefield road, and had been driving north-east along the Sturt Highway
:lol: :lol: Ha ! ..Hi jonsecg, ..im surprised we didnt bump into you last week..
..I was tooling about off road , lost, in the SA dessert last week also.
Trying to make our way back north from SA cross country to Ularu without a decent map !
Hell of a time had with hours of 120kph driving on dirt tracks ( if you think the CRX is reliable, you should try to break a Toyota V8 Diesel Troopy !). After a few days of sucking dust we eventually found somewhere with cold beer.
F'n amazing country out there ( but freeking cold at night sleeping in the open ).
Every one should get out and see the real Australia at some time in their life. :wink:
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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 02 2012 11:20pm

I think the South Australian outback is some of the most amazing countryside I've ever seen. I love riding/driving the Nullarbor; it's just such an awesome experience to be on a dead flat desert landscape, delineated only by sheer cliffs which plunge into a deep blue ocean, nothing on the horizon but maybe Antarctica some 3000 km away.

Sturt is at the doctors today getting it's medical examination. I have requested it be inspected for all the most likely problems a transport inspector will pick on, as well as a general ICE service. Hopefully the last one this engine will ever see :)

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by AussieJester » Aug 02 2012 11:41pm

jonescg wrote: as well as a general ICE service. Hopefully the last one this engine will ever see :)
Now now CHRiS :mrgreen: i bet the sound and smell of that lil 4 banga is growing on you teehehe :-P

Co

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 07 2012 2:23am

Just got the CRX back from the mechanic and rather than service it, they just went through and pointed out stuff that needed work. And charged me $264 for the privilege :x

Nothing is compromising safety, at least. Lots of stuff that's been replaced with non-genuine parts (duh, who would pay Honda premium?) but a few annoying things like the suspension having been lowered, the air filter moved to a high flow unit down near the wheel well, along with the odd leaking oil gasket. The ignition is a bit rough, so I will have to check the plugs too.

So all up, a bit bloody annoying. I wish I had the funds to drop a 'lecky donk in there and do away with all the oily crap that goes wrong.

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 17 2012 10:37am

So for the electrification of the CRX, I plan on using the EiG Li(NiMnCo)O2 20 Ah cells.

Turns out they really only want to sell me the cells, not the packaging which is weird because I would have thought that's what they want. Anyway, I have devised my own termination system.

I now know why their termination system uses diagonal bits of copper with all of the cells lined up in parallel. The tabs are so far off-set to one side, they practically touch the table they are lying on. So if you were to alternate the polarity (that is, flip the next cell to make a series connection) the positive and negative tabs of the two cells would be damn near touching.

So a diagonal termination system it is then. In a way this actually makes it much easier, as I don't need to work with odd-numbered rows of cells to make the next row line up.

So how does this look?

Image

Image

Image

This is a 12s, 3p arrangement. This gives a 60 Ah cell, and I will need 172 of them in series. Enough to run the PM150 DZ inverter and Evo motor. 37 kWh on board 8) I should have more range than a Nissan Leaf!

The holes are drawn as 4 mm holes, but obviously the brass blocks would be drilled at 3.5 mm and tapped to M4.

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by grindz145 » Aug 18 2012 7:58am

Nice! Where are you getting the cells from? Connections through racing? Did you use solidworks to draw this up? Sorry for the mundane questions....Inquiring minds want to know :)

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 18 2012 8:08am

Hehe, nah, SolidWorks sounds expensive. This is Google Sketchup. Pretty good for getting my ideas on a screen in a hurry, but you can't export the files in any meaningful format.

The cells are (eventually) going to come from EiG direct. The won't sell me their terminations and packaging modules :? Not sure why, but maybe it was lost in the Korenglish. The >1000 cell price break is pretty good, but it still amounts to a ~$77,000 order. Good thing there are a few Aussies keen to get in on the order. As I won't be in a position to order cells for at least another year it's all just ideas at this stage.

You found that Craigslist CRX yet? :mrgreen:

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by bigmoose » Aug 18 2012 8:31am

Since I have no knowledge of importing, hope you don't mind a ? since it looks like you are setting up for a whopper of a group buy ...

I always wondered how the risk was handled on shipping a single shipment of this kind of value? Do you own it when the vendor says they transferred it to the shipping agent? What if your container is dumped overboard on it way from Korea to Australia? How do you recover the value?
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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by TylerDurden » Aug 18 2012 8:37am

Have a Nice Day,

TD

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 18 2012 8:48am

jonescg wrote:Hehe, nah, SolidWorks sounds expensive. This is Google Sketchup. Pretty good for getting my ideas on a screen in a hurry, but you can't export the files in any meaningful format.

The cells are (eventually) going to come from EiG direct. The won't sell me their terminations and packaging modules :? Not sure why, but maybe it was lost in the Korenglish. The >1000 cell price break is pretty good, but it still amounts to a ~$77,000 order. Good thing there are a few Aussies keen to get in on the order. As I won't be in a position to order cells for at least another year it's all just ideas at this stage.

You found that Craigslist CRX yet? :mrgreen:
Yeh if there is going ot be a goup by let me know. I have so many things that need "POWER" lol and turnigy hard case pacs will only last so long.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 18 2012 9:06am

BigMoose, I will be doing it through a couple of the EV shops here in Perth, so the shipping insurance and brokers are already in place to make it happen. This won't be an ES groupbuy kind of groupbuy, more of a business-centred stock supply, but with the added benefit of having several customers (including myself) stump up some big dollars to make it happen faster. The business side of things will make it go far more smoothly and they have the buffer to absorb any flakey purchase requests. The businesses won't be profiting from the purchase, but any extra cells which have to be absorbed will be sold with a margin.

Arlo, I reckon I could send cells across the Pacific quite cost effectivley, just depends on the numbers. If its many hundreds, you're probably better off doing a group purchase through North American channels.

I was quoted a pretty good price, which by the time you add GST, customs and brokers fees and shipping, would probably be about $77 each, but hopefully less.

Amazingly, it will all fit on one pissy little pallet :lol:

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 18 2012 9:38am

Yeh I might be interested in a North amerian goup buy. Or I can get randy at Canadian EV in on this too. Is there a link for more info on the cells? Maybe I can order a small quanity for a cbr 250 im about to buy to convert and test them in that?
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by grindz145 » Aug 18 2012 10:15am

I was wondering if it was sketchup. I have to play with that more. It seems overly simplistic but some people like you are really turning it into a power-tool.

I was wondering because I would love to get my hands on some cells as well, still mulling over what I want to do for cells for the puch magnum electric.

There's no reason for me to get a crx (I have to keep telling myself this). I have a big pickup for doing things that you cant do with a bike, but I'm literally 95%+ bike transportation, so I can't justify investing. If I ever decide I don't need to lug around my sailboat, I'll definitely look for a little CRX or first gen insight.

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 18 2012 10:34pm

No worries, Arlo, Troy. Cell info can be found at www.eigbattery.com

As I said, I won't be doing any ordering for a long time. The new race bike is going to take all of my money and then some, so the CRX ideas are way ahead of their time. That said, before Christmas I will be helping a friend do a 110S scooter conversion where we take the boat anchor lead out and drop lithium in. These cells would be a perfect way to test the water and see how they stack up (both metaphorically and physically). If the boards work out to be a winning formula then I will get a shitload of them made up and can be sold with the cells when we eventually make the big order.

Troy, I can't really justify the CRX either. Katherine and I have got by on two wheels for the last 4 years, and myself for the last 11 years. It was really just that I wanted another project...

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 18 2012 11:15pm

jonescg wrote:No worries, Arlo, Troy. Cell info can be found at http://www.eigbattery.com

As I said, I won't be doing any ordering for a long time. The new race bike is going to take all of my money and then some, so the CRX ideas are way ahead of their time. That said, before Christmas I will be helping a friend do a 110S scooter conversion where we take the boat anchor lead out and drop lithium in. These cells would be a perfect way to test the water and see how they stack up (both metaphorically and physically). If the boards work out to be a winning formula then I will get a shitload of them made up and can be sold with the cells when we eventually make the big order.

Troy, I can't really justify the CRX either. Katherine and I have got by on two wheels for the last 4 years, and myself for the last 11 years. It was really just that I wanted another project...
I wont be converting my/our crx's for a while either. We have a wedding to save for and I have a YSR and a CBR to get done as well. But something like the CBR would need 3-5kw for my daily commuting and more is obviously better. So maybe a small group buy?
As for justifying the CRX's well.... Chantal was driving a pathfinder 33km a day and burning 50$ of fuel every two weeks with little extra use as possible. Now she goes a month a tank for 525 km and 45$ to fill. She wont even let me drive it because she tells me she is working on her miles lol. Its funny when we first started dating she said electric bikes are stupid and I just give her time then when she saw me blow her doors off on my bmx and it cost me $.06 for 15-30km of fun she realized there might be something there. Now she cant shut up about getting a Leaf or something so the electrifying of the crx's will be a breeze!
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 19 2012 2:07am

I just pulled the broken throttle position sensor off the PGM-FI. It must have been working somewhat before because now it runs like a turd - practically burning raw fuel and no power whatsoever. I have ordered the replacement off ebay, so I won't be driving anywhere till that gets in. I'll be doing well if my fuel economy gets better than 10 litres /100 km :shock:

ICE motors man, they are a bucket of oily trouble...

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 19 2012 9:19am

LOL Chantal has been doing all city driving to get her 525km on a tank and gas is $1.29 a litre here so she used 34.88 litres (7.683 cdn gal)(9.179 US gal) which is 6.64 litres/100km or 42.37MPG cdn or 35.46MPG US
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 21 2012 1:33am

OK so for small orders, EiG won't offer any decent prices. $73 each before taxes, customs, shipping or dangerous goods. So the scooter won't be getting a Korean battery just yet.

Given the volume available in the e-max 110s scooter, I thought I would work out what was possible should money never be an issue. We could pull out 90 kg of lead and replace it with 62 kg of EiGs, leaving you with a 12 kWh battery :lol: You could travel at least 240 km on a single charge :shock: Given my arse was sore after about 15 km, I don't think this would make sense :)

However, for the CRX, assuming the ideal landed price of ~$75 each, my 37 kWh pack would cost $40,000 including terminations and BMS. And since the motor and inverter are going from the race bike to the car, that's not a bad price for a conversion. All up, costs the same as a Nissan Leaf and goes further, and looks better ;)

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 21 2012 8:58am

jonescg wrote:OK so for small orders, EiG won't offer any decent prices. $73 each before taxes, customs, shipping or dangerous goods. So the scooter won't be getting a Korean battery just yet.

Given the volume available in the e-max 110s scooter, I thought I would work out what was possible should money never be an issue. We could pull out 90 kg of lead and replace it with 62 kg of EiGs, leaving you with a 12 kWh battery :lol: You could travel at least 240 km on a single charge :shock: Given my arse was sore after about 15 km, I don't think this would make sense :)

However, for the CRX, assuming the ideal landed price of ~$75 each, my 37 kWh pack would cost $40,000 including terminations and BMS. And since the motor and inverter are going from the race bike to the car, that's not a bad price for a conversion. All up, costs the same as a Nissan Leaf and goes further, and looks better ;)
DUDE! Thats way to much!
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 21 2012 9:03am

It's bizzare. The cost to produce a Li(NiMnCo)O2 cell is identical to that of any other chemistry. Their premium is to cover the legal costs I guess.

I was quoted US$58 a cell if you order 1000 or more. Which by the time you add all the extra costs, will be more like about $77k

Insane eh? I was hoping to try a small pack of cells for my termination system, but not at those prices :(

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 21 2012 9:05am

Thing is I plan for the crx in a year or two as well. SO by then more batteries will surface. Just wait till the next big realease is out and these ones will drop in price dramitacly!
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Hillhater » Aug 21 2012 6:08pm

...my 37 kWh pack would cost $40,000 .....
..... that's not a bad price for a conversion.
Jeez jonescg,...WTF are you smoking !! :shock:
$40 k for a freeking battery !
sure, if money were no object, you may just swallow that, but then you might just spend the extra 5-10k$ and buy a NEW Tesla S !
I would be tempted to reply to EIG and tell them to shove EIG exec, with $1k being the actual cost of the product.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 21 2012 9:28pm

Don't worry, that has been said in the politest way possible ;)

I hope you guys don't get the impression I am happy to spend this much money - cause I'm not. However in 1-2 years time when I am ready to buy the battery, I will be haggling for a <$40 cell.

Oh, and the Tesla won't be that cheap in Australia - its a foregone conclusion we are going to be gouged on it, so expect to pay $80k for one.

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Re: jonescg's eCRX pre-build thread!

Post by Kurt » Sep 03 2012 4:35am

If you like playing with bike parts and want to make the D series engine go like a cut snake. . I built one up with Yamaha R1 quad CV bike carbys years ago . The good thing is it dose way with all the vacuum lines and tidy's up the engine bay. The car idled smoother and ran better than it ever did with EFI. Ye it still give me 5lt - 100km driving on the highway.

I have the carbs and hand made SS manifold in the shed collecting dust.

video Of the old girl . I miss my old Honda
http://www.streetfire.net/video/1984-ho ... _78674.htm

+1 on the reliability of the older Honda's. I dove my old 84 civic from Brisbane to Adelaide many times to visit the family . 5000km round trip each time never had any issues :D

Looking forward to following the progress of this build .

Kurt

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