My electric Triumph GT6

The Toecutter

100 kW
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
1,312
Attached are pictures of my electric Triumph GT6. They are out of date by 1 year. It runs and drives, but is not finished or road legal, and it has had very limited testing. It has no problem peeling out, but hasn't yet been driven over 30 mph. I estimate from simulation that it should do 0-60 mph in around 5.5 seconds and top out at over 140 mph, and range should exceed 150 miles at 55 mph(we're talking not much over 100 Wh/mile).

Here's a list of the major components:

-Prestolite MTC4001 series DC motor, modified for high voltage operation. It was used in Kawashocki before sold to me by Bruce Meland
-EVNetics Soliton 1 controller
-Brusa NLG battery charger
-x60 CALB CA100FI LiFePO4 batteries for 19.2 kWh

By the time the car is finished, the batteries will be limited to 600A draw, the controller will limit the motor voltage to 165V, motor current will be limited to 680A, and applied power to the motor will be limited to 100 kW.

In the future, I intend to delete the transmission and go with dual Netgain 7" motors and set them up to shift them between series/parallel, add more batteries to complete the pack at 300.8V, and run the 1/4 mile in the 12 second range while having in excess of 200 miles range.
 

Attachments

  • Pic 2.JPG
    Pic 2.JPG
    79 KB · Views: 11,618
  • Pic 3.JPG
    Pic 3.JPG
    81.3 KB · Views: 11,618
  • Pic 4.JPG
    Pic 4.JPG
    40.5 KB · Views: 11,618
Awesome! I love conversions of classic cars. Should be a real sleeper when you get it finished.
 
It's a shame I only get about 2 weeks a year to work on it. I designed it when I was 17-18... it was originally supposed to use 25 Exide Orbital XCD30 AGMs and get 70+ miles range, but by the time I was ready to put batteries in it, LiFePO4 was widely available and similar in cost per kWh, while also making it possible to keep my car under GVWR. Loading 1025 lbs of AGM batteries into that chassis would have put it over GVWR by around 300 lbs, but at the time I designed it, I saw this as necessary to get my desired range. Fortunately, it will be well under GVWR when it is done with these lithiums, and may even weigh less than it did as a gas guzzler by a few pounds.
 
My Dad and Uncle both drove Triumphs in high school and always talk about them.....this might be the perfect car to show them to get them re-excited and maybe even do an EV conversion together, best of luck hope you find yourself some extra time to work on this. With the soliton you should be able to do some good burnouts..... and the 0-60 will make a gaser GT6 look like a VW bug off the line :D
 
Fantastic looking project, I really like the contrast of old classic styling and the newly innovated powertrain. You mention limiting current draw to 600A, what is the max discharge you've subjected them to thus far? I'm utilizing the same cells in my own project and I've read or have been told they will handle 2C, 3C and 4C peak discharge.
 
electron bom said:
Fantastic looking project, I really like the contrast of old classic styling and the newly innovated powertrain. You mention limiting current draw to 600A, what is the max discharge you've subjected them to thus far? I'm utilizing the same cells in my own project and I've read or have been told they will handle 2C, 3C and 4C peak discharge.

The batteries haven't seen more than 150-200A, yet, even though the controller is set to allow more. The car peeled out without much effort. The CALB CA100FI cells are rated at 3C continuous according to the manufacturer, and 10C peak for 10 seconds. The manufacturer in this case is overly conservative and under-speced their batteries in their brochure. Jack Rickard of EVTV has personally tested these and determined 3C continuous and 10C peak for 30 seconds will not harm them.

I think 6C peak is a good compromise. At a constant 6C, they will be run dead before they can overheat, and it will take only 4C for me to maintain 140 mph once I reach it after about 30 seconds of acceleration!
 
Interesting, thank you for the feedback. I had my doubts that the CA cells were less capable than the FIs they replaced. I've seen so many 'conservative' discharge rates, I just took it to be strange reality. Jack Rickard seems to be a valuable resource to the community and I'm inclined to believe his conclusion. Do you happen to have a link to the review/test you're citing?

As to your vehicle, why do you plan to remove the transmission? I understand running twin motors will render a gearbox less useful, but won't your top speed and acceleration decrease without the advantage of multiple ratios? Is the intended purpose of the vehicle shifting elsewhere? Oh yeah... post more pics! :D
 
I'll have to do some digging to find Jack Rickard's testing videos. It's been years since I've seen it.

I'm going to work on this car again in 2 days. I'll be sure to get some pics.
 
Nice setup--deserves better cells!
 
kiwiev said:
wb9k said:
Nice setup--deserves better cells!


What cells do you think would be better for similar $$$$?

Cheers Kiwi

I didn't say they would cost the same.... :wink:
 
If I could afford better cells, I'd likely have custom built a car from scratch at that point. $500/kWh is the maximum I can currently afford. Given that I want a decent 150+ miles range, the pack I currently have will meet my requirements for the cost. A GT6 makes for a lightweight, aerodynamically-efficient donor.
 
I don't think it was meant as criticism, just pointing out that you have the potential for an easy upgrade at some point in the future :)

Great project by the way, doing something well is hard, but doing it well and on a tight budget is doubly so.
 
Punx0r said:
I don't think it was meant as criticism, just pointing out that you have the potential for an easy upgrade at some point in the future :)

Great project by the way, doing something well is hard, but doing it well and on a tight budget is doubly so.


Absolutely, not meant as a knock on anyone. This is a great looking project which, IMO, is worthy of better cells. I understand your point about cost, however. Plus, you've already effected a major upgrade from the lead you started with, so that's a big step in the right direction already. Looking forward to seeing this move toward completion!
 
wb9k said:
Absolutely, not meant as a knock on anyone. This is a great looking project which, IMO, is worthy of better cells. I understand your point about cost, however. Plus, you've already effected a major upgrade from the lead you started with, so that's a big step in the right direction already. Looking forward to seeing this move toward completion!

I planned to use lead acid batteries in it originally, but I never bought that pack of Exides. The only lead acid batteries that were ever used in it were a tired old pack of used 6V golf cart batteries ready for the recycling center, and the car still peeled out with them, and reached more than 30 mph with the pack sagging to 20V at a 150A draw. The efficiency of this car is exceptional, but my testing has thus far been extremely limited. I'd like to do a lot more.

I'm looking forward to one day being able to drive it on a regular basis. Not having a license makes that difficult, but being placed into a global facial recognition database where the federal government, INTERPOL, private corporations, foreign governments, and other entities will have the capability to track my every move in violation of the 4th amendment without my knowledge or permission, is not on my list of things to do... hence I don't currently have one. In my home state of Missouri, enrolling license and ID card holders into this database is illegal, but the Missouri Department of Revenue started doing it anyway in 2013 in effort to comply with the unconstitutional REAL ID Act, and mine has since expired, and will not be renewed unless this is halted. I currently live in Texas anyhow now, and TX has been participating in this scheme since at least 2008, and at one point, TX was also taking all 10 fingerprints. To make matters worse, in TX, this data is all sold to 3rd parties for them to use as they see fit, and the Driver Privacy Protection Act can not stop this the way it is currently written. I never got a TX one as a result.

It's basically the equivalent of tattooing your name, date of birth, social security number, and all related records(credit report, criminal history, medical records, ect) to your face, forever, with no way to opt out or delete it, and I'm not fond of that idea... All a police officer has to do is snap your picture, and run it, and everything about you can be pulled up, even if you don't tell the cop your name or show ID. The same applies to any private establishment that decides it wants to identify you as soon as you walk through their door, regardless of whther you give permission or not.

I'll be getting one in New Hampshire at some point in the future, the last U.S. state where I can get a license or ID and still stay out of that database, but for now, I need to hold onto my job as an engineer for as long as I can. Unfortunately, it requires a valid license...
 
Mate its a fact of life due to lesser people putting the majority at risk.

Recognition software is like GOD on steroids :mrgreen:

BTW I thought A-123 cells would be cheaper for you in the USA?

Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
Mate its a fact of life due to lesser people putting the majority at risk.

Recognition software is like GOD on steroids :mrgreen:

Those "lesser people" aren't the terrorists, but the ones forcing these measures on everyone, the vast majority of which are innocent people.

Watch this video if you want a glimpse of what can go wrong, even when you've done nothing wrong to anyone:

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/03...ogy-the-government-will-use-to-frame-you.html

Also, there's nothing stopping commercial entities from profiting from literally every aspect of your existence after this is implemented, including to your own expense, with no compensation to you or any means to halt it.

That is no fact of life that anyone should be willing to accept. IMO, revolt is necessary.

BTW I thought A-123 cells would be cheaper for you in the USA?

When I was purchasing batteries, they were more expensive than the CALBs by far on a per kWh basis. I do not know if that is the case today.
 
I will be going back to work on it next month. It needs a paint job, and a few odds and ends. It is not legal.

I'm thinking of three possibilities for the paint:

1) metallic copper all over the car with black lining the 6" at the bottom left and right sides, with "COPPERHEAD" spelled out(in a manner similar to "MUSTANG" outlined in black on the side of some Ford Mustangs), which will be the car's name if I paint it this color

2) or possibly dark british racing green with a yellow nose that fades into the green. In this case, it will be named "Green Mamba"

3) dark black with deep tinted windows with a big, obnoxious sloppily spraypainted red anarchy sign on the hood(in a manner similar to the shirts in the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" Nirvana video)

It is currently yellow and ugly-ish.

Once I get it set up and legal, I do intend to start saving up for the upgrade from the single Prestolite, but that is likely to be 1-2 years away, and who knows what will be available then... I think burning the Prestolite up wouldn't be a difficult task, but it will serve the car well when driven gently, even though abusing it will be very, very tempting. 250A will burn it up in under an hour. I need to keep it at like 150A for cruising. If I get the aero right, safe cruising speed on the level could be north of 85 mph with this tiny low power motor not overheating, but ultimately, overheating this motor will be a sufficient risk during abusive driving that this car will be unsuitable for more than a few minutes of hooning at a time, lest the motor melt itself.

I really need a liquid-cooled motor solution, but that will cost significantly more money. A "good enough" solution does exist though. Twin WarP 7s with a transmission delete would still cost many thousands less than upgrading to a comparable AC system, let alone an AC system meant for more power.
 
The Toecutter said:
2) or possibly dark british racing green with a yellow nose that fades into the green. In this case, it will be named "Green Mamba"

Why not paint it yellow and green stripped and call it "Garter"? When you get your Warps you can re-paint to copperhead.

My family car had a 4001, it weighed over 4,000lbs with everyone in and lasted for years. Only 144V * Curtis 1231 500A controller though. One day the cooling blower hose plopped off, I just replaced the brushes (wires burnt), put a new zip tie on the blower hose and it was good to go again.

How long you can burn rubber is as much a function of how skinny and crappy your tires are as it is of your motor power. Get the skinniest junk yard rubber you can find, pump them up to 60PSI and smoke away.
 
My choice of tire is more for reduced rolling resistance, than performance, so the "bite" isn't going to be all that much into the pavement. Maybe "Garter" would be more appropriate a name, but I don't want to do two paint jobs, either. The single Prestolite hooked to a transmission with a 680A limit will exceed the traction of the tires at all speeds below 30 mph. Somewhere around 120 horsepower and 120 lb-ft of electric torque is still plenty in a 2,000 lb setup.

The car will be somewhere around 2,000-2,200 lbs set up with twin 7s though depending on what mechanical upgrades are made. 400 lb-ft peak torque, 120 peak horsepower, and around 75 continuous horsepower would be quite formidable in something so low in mass with its continuous power enough to cruise at double the speed limit. It would possibly give the new Miatas a really good run in a straight line, and with careful attention to weight distribution(49F/51R), potentially matching or beating them in the corners(with good, sticky tires, not the LRR ones). The Rotoflex suspension is a maintenance whore though and at some point before the car is seriously abused, I will be swapping it out for something more durable and reliable.

A to B driving at flow of traffic speeds is a more important criteria of concern in this than racing, and the Prestolite exceeds the necessary specs for this A to B driving application in non-mountainous regions. It just won't yet have the fun factor that it potentially could have with a bit more iron and copper in it with some thicker rubber to ride on. 75 continuous horsepower can do a hell of a lot more than 30 continuous horsepower... even if 30 horsepower is still more than adequate for the mundane.
 
For a simple improvement, swap the rotoflex for a very late GT6 or Spitfire 1500 swing spring set-up with the longer driveshafts. Make sure you fit the larger anti-roll bar from the GT6 or add an after market anti-roll bar to the rear. One esteemed british car magazine, either Autocar or Motor, compared the handling of the swing spring Spitfire to a 1960s Lotus Elan. Having had both I can testify to the fact that a well sorted Spitfire can be on par with a standard Elan.
 
Back
Top