My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Electric cars, trucks, ATVs, NEVs - things bigger than a motorcycle.
toukanar   1 mW

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My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Mar 03 2015 4:18pm

Hi there,

just a few words to talk about my project: build a Lancia-Ferrari D50 (1953-1957) replica, all electric, all-wheel drive:
AS10040301 - FLYER.png.png
You may find a few pictures and videos I made along the build here: http://rotodesk.tumblr.com
(I just hope everyone will understand I don't want to reload everything here as it is already available somewhere else, let me know if I'm completely wrong)

I have had quite some fun building it (and I still do):
- the chassis is almost done,
- the suspension works fine,
- the steering is a bit hard but that's suposed to be a formula 1...
- the brakes are functionnal as well,
Time is now to machine the anti-roll bar components.

But mainly I am struggling setting up the sevcon controller, surprising isn't it ?

Eventhough it works, I am pretty sure it is not optimized, and I have been unable to get any help from Sevcon.

I am running a ME4201 motor from motenergy, with full support from John Fiorenza who sent me everything he had for this motor.
The controller is a Gen 4 size 4, 350 amps max, and the pair of them are running at 72 volts.

All I had from Sevcon so far is the certainty the DLD config file I uploaded is outdated, 5 years old, but they never sent any other.
As a result I get plenty of errors when running their DVT software, and I am pretty sure the torque is far from its maximum.

The controller is rated 350 amps, and my preliminary lead-acid batteries are rated 340 amps, but DVT shows the controller never uses more than 40 amps.

Anyone got a clue where I should start ?

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by Hillhater » Mar 03 2015 5:33pm

Have you seen this thread on programming the sevcon ?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 10&t=36146

Also..
Very interesting project with some excellent craftsmanship and design.
Possibly the first time those motors have been hub mounted ?
Disappointing choice of batteries...very heavy !...only temporary I hope ?
Good luck with future completion work. :)
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by Dauntless » Mar 04 2015 12:34am

That's an awesome piece of work, I wish the site was in English so I could read about it better.
Google Translate wrote: The front suspension is over. . . it also changes dramatically driving behavior.
After several weeks of attempts, I passed out . . . .It's not quite right at the start but up in the towers smoothly . . . .
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by The Toecutter » Mar 04 2015 1:21am

I bet your car's grip and maneuverability would be unrivaled in an autocross...
Custom electric velomobile, 1500W: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=110298

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Mar 04 2015 1:46am

@Hillhater:
I've read the thread, and found not much answers, to my specific problem.
I agree about the batteries, which are here for testing purpose only. I don't want to spend 6000€ for them before I'm sure I sorted out all the problems.

@Dauntless:
I hoped most of the pictures spoke for themselves, but let's start learn some french then !
On the other hand I never thought I would need international support ;o)
"front suspension is over, driving behavior is highly improved"
"I had to modify the pull rod fixing position to adapt to the soft spring dampers"
"after a few weeks of trials, I finally asked my friend Cyril to have a look, and in no time he had it running up to very high revs" (he is a very clever electronic engineer)

@Toecutter:
Except the ride height is only 80mm, it will not help...
Last edited by toukanar on Mar 04 2015 2:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by RLT » Mar 04 2015 1:46am

I like it!

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 05 2015 5:41am

That's nice, bravo!
I was actually wondering if the UK kit car industry would drift on the EV side one day or later...

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by Hillhater » Mar 05 2015 5:07pm

UK kit car ????
I thought toukanar is in France .?
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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 06 2015 12:48am

to clarify, I think building the whole car like toukanar does is quite a challenge,
maybe an other option is to eventually adapt a UK kit car, especially in a neighbouring country of UK.
Image

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by Dauntless » Mar 06 2015 1:16am

Hillhater wrote:UK kit car ????
I thought toukanar is in France .?
Ah, but the love of cars transcends borders. As well as English Channels.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by Hillhater » Mar 06 2015 2:00am

made_in_the_alps_legacy wrote:to clarify, I think building the whole car like toukanar does is quite a challenge,
maybe an other option is to eventually adapt a UK kit car, especially in a neighbouring country of UK.
Image
Down here there are a couple of electric Lotus 7 / Clubman kit cars, which is quite an achievement as there is a lot less space in those than a full size sedan or the typical ute(pick up truck) where they can put a bunch of batteries in the back.
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Mar 07 2015 7:26am

Obviously it would have been easier to start from an existing car and just remove the ICE, or from a lotus 7 kit car as shown.
But then where is the challenge ?! I built a car from scratch, designed everything, and that suits my twisted mind ;)

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by The Toecutter » Mar 07 2015 12:58pm

If I were to build from scratch, I'd make my own unique creation, and not a replica of a classic car. The aerodynamic and weight advantages possible with a custom build are just too much to ignore, when the mainstream auto industry already mostly ignores these things as it is in favor of planned obsolescence and selling everything "fully loaded" to maximize their margins.

Imagine what kind of wh/mi efficiency AND acceleration/cornering/top speed performance is possible with a drag coefficient of 0.18 or less, a frontal area of 1.2 sq m or less, use of ground effects where appropriate to provide some downforce without adding much drag(no big wings or spoilers though, as you want as low a drag as possible), a total vehicle weight of 1,000 lbs or less with the driver in it, and half of the weight of the vehicle in cheapo CALB LiFePO4 batteries? With thick, sticky, lossy racing tires(0.015 Crr), you'd only need like 4 horsepower at the wheels to steadily maintain 70 mph, and 50 horsepower at the wheels to maintain 150 mph. You could have a single 25 lb Lynch motor set up as a direct drive for each wheel, and then put more than 100 horsepower electrically into the 4 of them for a nasty power to weight ratio of the laden car of 1 hp per 10 lbs, with the top end geared by wheel size for say, 150 mph(don't want to exceed the continuous rating of the motors at top speed). And you'd have 25 kWh or so of battery on board, quite possibly sunk into the floor of the car shifting the weight below the axle line. Keep another seat for a passenger, if desired(maybe could shift the passenger seat slightly back, ala Bertone Blitz, or VW XL1. It helps reduce frontal area, without having to go to tandem seating).

400+ miles range at 70 mph, and 75+ miles range at 150 mph, each to 80% discharge? That would be pretty sweet...

Cars I look at for inspiration are pieces of work such as the Alfa Romeo BAT7, Opel Eco Speedster, Loremo, Aptera, and Ginetta G50 simply because of their inherent aerodynamic and low weight.



All of that being said, your work is very impressive. I once tried to build a car from scratch, and gave up on that for the time being once I realized how much work, space, money, and time it would take. Being a broke 18 year old at the time without even so much as a work space will do that... but I did eventually get a donor to convert, and it runs and drives now. Your car is scratch built, and that experience has given you a lot of skills that could be applied in the future on even more projects.

I'm wondering what you might have in mind for the vehicles you build after this one.

I still hope to scratch build my own 4-wheel race car one day(4wd, 49F/51R weight distribution, < 1,000 lbs, 100+ hp, CdA < .25 m^2), but I'll consider an electric trike or two a good start towards that end... Were I to pursue that route, what advice do you have? What mistakes did you make that you wish you could change? Anything you wish you did differently?
Custom electric velomobile, 1500W: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=110298

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Mar 09 2015 3:59pm

I fully agree.

But this is only a hobby, with a hobby budget. That's why I went for a formula1: no roof, no windshield, no doors, no air-conditionned, no stereo, no comfort, etc. Even no real performance, only 80hp.

When I decided to go for building it I was working 55km from home, and I only wanted a simple commute car. So I needed a car able to do 110km per charge, almost always on a highway (~constant speed), that's it.
Please note that it took me so long to built it that I had time to find a new job 1.8km from home, and as of now I commute by bike, and my wife keeps telling me a pedal car should be enough.

That said, I am still happy to try to finish it !




All that being said... of course there are plenty of things to improve, different ways to do the same thing. But I leave in France. And over here the automotive industry lobby made it impossible to build your car and drive the open roads. So if I ever go through all french bureaucracy and finally drive it everyday, only then I'll start thinking of a new one ;o)

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Apr 06 2015 12:55pm

Hi there, Easter update:
- brake calipers have been fitted to the 3 other wheels... it definitely brakes properly ! Moreover the front hoses have easily found their way and are not tormented at all while steering.
Image
- new place for the rear controllers: between the rear wheels ! Just have to finish recabling everything.
Image

I also have a second motor waiting to be fitted on the rear left wheel, I hope I'll post a video soon showing much better acceleration...

Yannick
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Apr 28 2015 12:44am

April update: refitted the controllers and did the recabling... everything works ;o) Have to permanently attach the accelerator pedal and then I'll take care of cabling the second controller...

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by riba2233 » Apr 28 2015 4:16am

Wow! This is definitely one of the best projects on ES :D
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » May 02 2015 5:13am

pedal is now attached.

Image

I'll take care of nicely routing the cables only after the chassis has been painted.
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » May 07 2015 3:41pm

Just spent a few hours this week cabling the second SEVCON controller...

Image
That's a tough task !

And now both controllers are linked together via CAN bus as master/slave, and they seem to communicate together !!

Image
I just have to buy another set of gear wheels because right now there's no link between the motor and the wheel on the left side ;o)
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by marcexec » Jun 11 2015 3:39am

C'est un projet impressionnant, mat. :)
How do you think the car will behave in bends - are you simulating a differential between the Sevcons?
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Jun 27 2015 10:08am

Sorry for this late answer, been busy lately having a brand new baby at home, my latest child is born 10 days ago...

Image

I had quite a few discussions with a good friend of mine, expert in vehicules "electrification", he actually developped some bits for the E-Fan prototype (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_E-Fan), so I trust him when it comes to controller management.

He just told me to not worry about differential stuff between the controllers, just to use them in torque mode. I will receive the latest sets of gears next week, so I should be able to confirm his expertise, or not... ;o)

Yannick
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by SlowCo » Jun 27 2015 1:04pm

toukanar wrote:
2015_062209_41_3299%20(Medium).JPG
Congratulations!
Although not so much "effort" is needed in building, it is however a far more involving "project" than your electric car project in the years to come... :wink:

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by dustyearlobe » Jun 28 2015 8:13am

+1 on the congrats for the little one,very interesting build ,lookin forward to hearing how it runs :D

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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by toukanar » Jul 04 2015 3:38pm

Hi guys,

the gear wheels have just been delivered:

Image

and assembled :

YOUTUBE VIDEO HERE

The car runs much better with 2 motors instead of 1... can't wait for the next ones at the front !!

And before anyone asks: yes the anti-roll bars are missing ;o)
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Re: My application: Lancia-Ferrari D50 electric replica

Post by riba2233 » Jul 04 2015 5:21pm

EV grin is present :mrgreen:
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

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