Chevy Bolt first drive

[Hillhater]

I am one of the folk who know that i NEED a car at times, thanks to current urban planning situation, centralised public facilities and crap public transport options .

That's a funny way to describe weakness and lack of commitment.

I am fully committed to a practical, sensible, lifestyle.
Cars, as we currently know them will eventually dissapear and be replaced by something less polluting, dangerous, wasteful, and costly, but the Ebike is not the universal answer and until there is a viable option then you must remain amused by my situation.

[Warren]

Hillhater,

"Oh, and just so we are clear, no, I do not subscribe to the CO2 doomsday scenario !"

OK. I hope I didn't sound as mean, and condescending as Chalo just did. I see us as all in this boat together, doing the best we can. I just think, if we can't discuss our dilemma, we are screwed. We moved to the country decades ago to raise our kids in a healthy rural setting. I told myself that the twice daily bus runs to the city would increase, as more people moved in around us. Of course that didn't happen. Public transit, outside of cities, has been shrinking since I was born. This trend won't stop. I have no hope for electric robot taxis coming to the rescue, in my lifetime. You may be young enough to entertain that fantasy. And you may feel secure enough in your job to imagine you will be one of the luck folks riding them. My 50 year work experience of the liberating effects of technology, are just the opposite. Robot serfs will make most of us useless eaters/takers, in our glorious money meritocracy.

As to climate science, denial is a wonderful coping tool.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03 ... ter675.jpg

[MitchJi]

Still waiting for an electric Corvette.

Tesla Model 3 P80D ((P ='s Ludicrous Mode ).

[liveforphysics]

Another case of style over efficiency.

Or, conversely, a case of making the best use of the car's footprint. Making the​ thing ducktailed for aerodynamics impairs rear headroom and cargo space, or makes the car longer and heavier, or both. The Prius is a slippery car, but I hate being in one. It's terrible for rearward visibility, too.

Folks often mistakenly assume vehicle chassis choices involve some kind of rational decision making process.

In the case of both the Spark and LEAF and Bolt, its unrelated to what makes sense in an EV chassis, and entirely related to what shit gas car chassis they already have stamping tools to make (Bolt is a GM Cruise, LEAF is a Nissan Versa). GM farmed out to LG to take a garbage terrible aero chassis and make it move with electric power.

When/if GM or Nissan decide to make a purpose built EV platform, the highway range will improve by at least +50% .

[Hillhater]

Hillhater,

"Oh, and just so we are clear, no, I do not subscribe to the CO2 doomsday scenario !"

OK. I hope I didn't sound as mean, and condescending as Chalo just did. I see us as all in this boat together, doing the best we can. I just think, if we can't discuss our dilemma, we are screwed. We moved to the country decades ago to raise our kids in a healthy rural setting. I told myself that the twice daily bus runs to the city would increase, as more people moved in around us. Of course that didn't happen. Public transit, outside of cities, has been shrinking since I was born. This trend won't stop. I have no hope for electric robot taxis coming to the rescue, in my lifetime. You may be young enough to entertain that fantasy. And you may feel secure enough in your job to imagine you will be one of the luck folks riding them. My 50 year work experience of the liberating effects of technology, are just the opposite. Robot serfs will make most of us useless eaters/takers, in our glorious money meritocracy.

As to climate science, denial is a wonderful coping tool.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03 ... ter675.jpg

We are certainly in the same boat ..(spaceship Earth)... but unlike some who are convinced we are headed for the rocks, i suspect some of the crew have been smoking something sweet and are on a trip of their own and attempting to convince others.( Jonestown , springs to mind !)
I have actually taken the oposite approach to you, i have moved from a rural acreage property progressively more urban to be closer to work, schools, healthcare, daily life requirements, public transport, etc...specificaly to minimise car use ,fuel pollution , etc. unfortunately, our EV options here are few ( LEAF, BMWi3, Tesla,) , laughably expensive, and are rare , so its a waiting game currently, until something practical is available
PS...you do know the Lemming tale is also a hoax dont you,?
and the lemmings in the film were actually physically forced over the cliff by Walt Dysney !

[Hillhater]

When/if GM or Nissan decide to make a purpose built EV platform, the highway range will improve by at least +50% .

Didnt GM do that back with the EV1 ?
I guess their current designs are based on financial slipperyness rather than aero considerations !

[Warren]

Luke,

"When/if GM or Nissan decide to make a purpose built EV platform, the highway range will improve by at least +50% ."

The Bolt's MPGe is 119, or 280 Wh/mile per the EPA. Are you saying the MPGe of the Model 3 will be 178.5, or 186.5 Wh/mile? I hope you are right. That would be sweet.

[Warren]

Hillhater,

Yes. If there had been any factory jobs near the sleepy college town we lived near, and affordable housing in a decent neighborhood, that would have been our choice too. We both commuted for decades in the smallest, cheapest cars available, getting 34 mpg even after most switched to big gas guzzlers. We live in an earth-bermed passive solar house, we never could have built in the city, with high efficiency appliances, first CF, and now LED lighting. The Bolt is the first EV that makes any sense if you don't live right in town, or along a California "electric highway."

I knew about the lemmings. Still a good joke though. Equating the science of climate change, with a religious cult is really tinfoil hat stuff. Sorry.

[liveforphysics]

Luke,

"When/if GM or Nissan decide to make a purpose built EV platform, the highway range will improve by at least +50% ."

The Bolt's MPGe is 119, or 280 Wh/mile per the EPA. Are you saying the MPGe of the Model 3 will be 178.5, or 186.5 Wh/mile? I hope you are right. That would be sweet.

If they decided to make a whole-assed EV effort, yes.

If GM even used the now 21 years old EV1 chassis with modern EV battery and modern motor controller technology it could be GMs quickest vehicle in the quarter mile with an absurd top speed and >300miles highway range.

The state of EVs is going just fine though, the companies who take EV development seriously will be the companies still in business 5-10years from now, the companies that punt EVs clinging to ICE platform offerings will experience rapid auto-extinction.

[Hillhater]

?.....Equating the science of climate change, with a religious cult is really tinfoil hat stuff. Sorry.

Really ? ..i see so many similarities...
...But lets not get into that whole CC debate on this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=62745&p=1271178#p1271178

How is the hunt for a Bolt going ?
Im looking forward to an independent review.

[Chalo]

The EV1 was the most aerodynamic car of its day, but it was a crowded two seater with negligible cargo space. When the car you want to use is a box (in terms of its function), then you have to wrap the aero envelope around a box, and accept the ramifications.

The solution to aero losses is easy: don't go so fast. That also solves the safety and noise issues with cars.

[Warren]

So I finally got to ride in a Bolt. The wife drove the Leaf back in 2011, the i3 Rex in 2014. She declared the Bolt the winner, after driving it. I found the passenger seat as good for sleeping as any car she has owned. On the way home we saw yet another Model S...still not impressed. Saw my favorite car ever too...a first generation Honda Insight. If the Bolt looked like that I would have driven it too.

[Hillhater]

Media photos do not give a clear indication of size...outside or inside.
How does it compare to other known cars for size and space ..IE, i3, or the Leaf, or even a Corrola/ Focus ?

[liveforphysics]

So I finally got to ride in a Bolt. The wife drove the Leaf back in 2011, the i3 Rex in 2014. She declared the Bolt the winner, after driving it. I found the passenger seat as good for sleeping as any car she has owned. On the way home we saw yet another Model S...still not impressed. Saw my favorite car ever too...a first generation Honda Insight. If the Bolt looked like that I would have driven it too.

Drive the model S. Its far better than watching one go by.

[Warren]

The Model S is a car for lawyers and pimps. I heard that Trump owns one. It is perfect for him. It is yuge!

[Warren]

Hillhater,

I swear I posted this reply hours ago. I don't know where the hell it went?! But I'll try again.

The Bolt was at least as roomy inside as my wife's 2006 Corolla, the Leaf, or BMW i3. It is roomier than my 1993 Sentra E was, or our 1970's Datsun 510's. This is a pretty good site for comparing lots of EV's.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_A5j ... WzLW6AZHGA

I think anything bigger should require a commercial driver's license. My idea of a sensible car is the TREV, from right there in Australia.

http://www.evalbum.com/4713

Good enough to go around the world.

http://www.zero-race.com/

[liveforphysics]

The Model S is a car for lawyers and pimps. I heard that Trump owns one. It is perfect for him. It is yuge!

I gave all my cars away and only ride my DSR motorcycle or ebikes.

Thats said, I will buy a model S when Ive got the capital saved to buy it cash (I dont use loans because I don't support feeding bankers).

No matter your personal bias, or whomever else may drive them, it has no effect on the Model S being in its own league for a radically superior transportation cage. Ive driven Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, R8's and all the rest of the German flagship cars, and they all feel like driving some kind of crude archaic joke compared to a model S.

You can pick up used model S' for sub $45k. Its such a massive improvement over anything else Ive ever driven that anything else, 7-series, S-class, Aston Martin, all feel like driving some cludged together relic from a bygone era.

[Hillhater]

.....I gave all my cars away and only ride my DSR motorcycle or ebikes.

Wow ....you gave away the Sparrow and the DP1 ?
I wish i lived closer to you .

[liveforphysics]

.....I gave all my cars away and only ride my DSR motorcycle or ebikes.

Wow ....you gave away the Sparrow and the DP1 ?
I wish i lived closer to you .

Yep!

[craneplaneguy]

I installed a 26 KW PV grid tie system for a guy with a Tesla S. I got to drive it. Wow. Faster then hell! He and his wife put 59,000 miles on it the first 6 months they owned it.

Meanwhile, with the advent of warmer weather, I'm making the 13 mile drive from my home to my crane yard, totally on battery power, without the ICE coming on, in the plug in Prius. It's really whetted my appetite for a 100% e car. E road motorcycle, not so much, too damn cold here much of the year, plus we have wild life on the roads to deal with. Plus I need to carry lots of stuff, often.

[Warren]

Luke,

"You can pick up used model S' for sub $45k. Its such a massive improvement over anything else Ive ever driven that anything else, 7-series, S-class, Aston Martin, all feel like driving some kludged together relic from a bygone era."

You are young, with a high paying, high demand profession, with no dependents. We are an old, retired couple, with kids with dead-end jobs. The model S has absolutely nothing we need in a car. The idea of spending almost 2.5 times what we have ever spent on a car, for a used status symbol, is total fantasy. I wish I could come back in 35 years to see what you think.

[wineboyrider]

I have 2 kids and a single parent. I could never afford a Model S or Model 3 for that matter. However, I could probably afford a used Chevy Volt for around $10,000.

[Hillhater]

I can see parallels here with the early days of ICE cars.
Initially they were only within reach of the wealthy and extroverts due to costs , complexity, and fuel supply etc.
It took H Ford and his cheap , mass produced, Model T to kick start wider adoption of car ownership.
Whilst the Bolt, Model 3, (or even the Leaf) may fill that roll for some, even those are not as widely available or affordable as could be hoped.

[Chalo]

There are a lot fewer required parts in an electric car. Batteries are comparatively expensive; copper is comparatively expensive. Once you've sprung for those things, the rest of it can be cheap as dirt while still getting the job done. You don't have to protect and insulate the passengers from what the motor is doing, for instance. It's not hot, loud, and shaky-- it can sit right in the footwell with your feet.

I think some intrepid manufacturer is going to have to capitalize on the inherent simplicity of electric vehicles before they have something with more value appeal than ICE cars. Make it light, simple, versatile. Folks will get it. As in they'll understand it, and as in they'll buy it.

However it goes, cars will still be a blight until they're guided by automated systems instead of idiots. But having quiet, efficient, simple cars that are at home going slowly will be a step in the right direction.

[liveforphysics]

Luke,

"You can pick up used model S' for sub $45k. Its such a massive improvement over anything else Ive ever driven that anything else, 7-series, S-class, Aston Martin, all feel like driving some kludged together relic from a bygone era."

You are young, with a high paying, high demand profession, with no dependents. We are an old, retired couple, with kids with dead-end jobs. The model S has absolutely nothing we need in a car. The idea of spending almost 2.5 times what we have ever spent on a car, for a used status symbol, is total fantasy. I wish I could come back in 35 years to see what you think.

I speced put a bolt with heated seat package and fast charge package at $38.8k ($37k is cheapest possible).


https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/6041592374.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/6029788615.html

Thats a couple $40k Teslas. Gets a whole lot nicer cage than a GM cruise EV conversion.

Thats said, having traveled the world and stayed with grandmas who ride 3 grandkids on a tiny ebike scooter in all weather and handles all family shopping and transportion needs. I just came back from Italy and none of the workers I spoke with had cars, but did have families and handed everything with rust bucket 2 stroke scooters.

Nobody needs a cage, and long term the concept means faster species auto-extinction. The bolt is a great cage option of available new cages. Seems insane to pay a price in the same ballpark at a Tesla to get Chevy Cruse chassis vehicle and eat the new car depreciation hit if you're into budgetary investing or holding value or operating experience etc.

When I get a Tesla its a toy, if I need to get somewhere in bay area traffic I take my DSR and lane split because I value my time and bay traffic is absurd these days.