Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Electric cars, trucks, ATVs, NEVs - things bigger than a motorcycle.
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Arlo1
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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Nov 10, 2016 2:47 pm

MPaulHolmes wrote:Disclaimer: This go-kart is not done! And my son and I only went like 5 mph, so chill! haha. Anyway, Here's a first very basic test with a Nissan leaf go kart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FUEo_TXSDg
That kart is useless to show off the power of the leaf motor...

Are you planning another chassis?

Did you see my progress? I am just finishing up the 30.5kwh (usable energy) pack for mine but with only 130 kw available from the battery I was destroying tires with 2 decent street tires on the street.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by MPaulHolmes » Nov 11, 2016 11:38 am

I'm not trying to show off the nissan leaf power. I would stick it in a car at 400v if I was doing that. This is to do some field weakening and saliency software tests under load. Everything on that except for the wheels was left in the neighbors yard when they moved away, by the way. I didnt make that chassis. One goal was to keep top speed as low as possible.

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by MPaulHolmes » Nov 12, 2016 9:17 pm

Here's a forward/reverse/brake all in one throttle demo, and an acceleration test at max throttle = 75amp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97xBLvRdcw

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by MPaulHolmes » Dec 09, 2016 9:16 pm

Here's another video. This time, I modified the MPPT charger from the Solar Panels so the go kart can charge at about 5.6kW (in the summer), and probably around 4kW in the winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxp8kX_golA

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 22, 2017 10:33 am

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum. I'm planning on swapping a leaf motor in my 240sx this winter. I'm hoping to run the max power that the leaf motor is capable of using MPaul's control board. What do you think about running two of the 600A Powerex Igbt's in parallel? What other limitations do you think I might run into running over 200kw with your controller design?

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by SlowCo » Sep 22, 2017 11:25 am

mastermechanic5 wrote:Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum. I'm planning on swapping a leaf motor in my 240sx this winter. I'm hoping to run the max power that the leaf motor is capable of using MPaul's control board. What do you think about running two of the 600A Powerex Igbt's in parallel? What other limitations do you think I might run into running over 200kw with your controller design?

Thanks,
Tom
Read through Arlo's thread also for extra info of his Honda CRX with Nissan Leaf drive train and >300hp:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982
He has documented his build very well and a lot of information will be applicable to your project.

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 22, 2017 12:37 pm

SlowCo wrote:
mastermechanic5 wrote:Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum. I'm planning on swapping a leaf motor in my 240sx this winter. I'm hoping to run the max power that the leaf motor is capable of using MPaul's control board. What do you think about running two of the 600A Powerex Igbt's in parallel? What other limitations do you think I might run into running over 200kw with your controller design?

Thanks,
Tom
Read through Arlo's thread also for extra info of his Honda CRX with Nissan Leaf drive train and >300hp:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982
He has documented his build very well and a lot of information will be applicable to your project.
Thanks SlowCo,

Tom you are much MUCH better off to use motor power dense parts rather then 2 in parallel. It keeps circuit inductance lower allowing you to reach your power goals much easier.

I use 800a (at 80 deg C) and 1200v rated parts. You will need 1200v parts if you want to make any big power as they see quite large switching spikes at turn off. Also I am running 112s one of the keys to making power with the leaf motor is feeding the power in at higher rpm this requires a stiff battery with as much voltage as you can safely use.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 22, 2017 1:09 pm

Thanks Arlo and SlowCo,

I have been looking at Arlo's thread and there is a TON of good info there, I haven't gotten a chance to read it all yet. Why does your controller use 6 IGBTs rather than the 3 used in MPauls? I already have one of MPauls driver boards so I was going with his design. I will have to try to find a deal on some 800-1000 amp IGBTs. So far all of the 1000 amp IGBTs I've seen have been around $500 a piece, so I thought it might be more cost effective to parallel smaller ones. Right now I have 50 of these 18650 packs:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-LG-36V-4-4AH ... SwuspY9YNZ

I might buy some more of those, or build a pack with some nano tech lipos since some of them supposedly have a 100c rating. But hobby lipos are very violent when they fail so I'd rather find another option for high discharge cells. Maybe some of the new 2170 cells when there available.

BTW thank you MPaul and Arlo for your controller designs and inspiration!
Last edited by mastermechanic5 on Sep 22, 2017 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 22, 2017 1:54 pm

Be careful with cheep lipo. It will likely burn your house down. You can make race cars with it just be VERY careful.

My 800a IGBTs are 1 switch IE 1 is low side 1 is high side and you have 3 phases which means you need 6 switches or a multiple of 6.
With pauls design he uses IGBTs with 2 switches inside 1 housing. But because they are about the same size as my single switch units they are about 1/2 the power.

If you want to parallel them you will have great problems with getting the layout to work properly to make them switch current evenly.

There is a lot to learn about this. Diving in is fun but you can waste money fast. My design is only to work with and tuned for 2 IGBT part numbers.
1MBI800U4B-120 AND 1MBI600U4B-120

good luck.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 22, 2017 9:47 pm

I am aware of the dangers of lipo batteries, I would need to be very cautious if I went that route.

I see why your using 6 IGBT modules instead of 3 now. Since paralleling isn't a good idea and the double transistor modules are half the power maybe I ought to run 6 single transistor modules like your design. I'd imagine 6 modules would disperse heat better as well.

Thanks Arlo for the info :D

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 22, 2017 10:08 pm

mastermechanic5 wrote:I am aware of the dangers of lipo batteries, I would need to be very cautious if I went that route.

I see why your using 6 IGBT modules instead of 3 now. Since paralleling isn't a good idea and the double transistor modules are half the power maybe I ought to run 6 single transistor modules like your design. I'd imagine 6 modules would disperse heat better as well.

Thanks Arlo for the info :D
I also have a new thread to start soon. I have some 1400amp dual IGBTs to start a new build.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 22, 2017 10:41 pm

Would you be using 3 of double IGBTs? Wouldn't that be less power than your 6 800 amp singles? What about the game changer controller? You had talked about swapping the FETs a for IGBTs in your thread for a HV design. Are you building your next controller with large format IGBTs to get it up and running more quickly?

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 22, 2017 11:45 pm

I had some big modules donated to the cause. Was not the plan but they are bad ass. Remember 1400a and 1200v. If you use 600v parts you are stuck with a much lower voltage limit.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 23, 2017 10:50 am

Arlo1 wrote: My 800a IGBTs are 1 switch IE 1 is low side 1 is high side and you have 3 phases which means you need 6 switches or a multiple of 6.
With pauls design he uses IGBTs with 2 switches inside 1 housing. But because they are about the same size as my single switch units they are about 1/2 the power.
I think might have misunderstood you in this post then. Your saying the IGBTs MPauls using are about half the power because there half the voltage, not because they have two transistors per module? I was interpreting it as that the way the manufactures rate them they add the capacity of the two transistors together for the current rating, rather then that each transistor in the module can each handle the rated current.

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 23, 2017 10:55 am

mastermechanic5 wrote:
Arlo1 wrote: My 800a IGBTs are 1 switch IE 1 is low side 1 is high side and you have 3 phases which means you need 6 switches or a multiple of 6.
With pauls design he uses IGBTs with 2 switches inside 1 housing. But because they are about the same size as my single switch units they are about 1/2 the power.
I think might have misunderstood you in this post then. Your saying the IGBTs MPauls using are about half the power because there half the voltage, not because they have two transistors per module? I was interpreting it as that the way the manufactures rate them they add the capacity of the two transistors together for the current rating, rather then that each transistor in the module can each handle the rated current.
Likely less then 1/2 the power because of current and voltage limits both being lower.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 23, 2017 1:16 pm

I found some Infineon FF1400R12IP4 modules on eBay, would these work?

Here's a datasheet:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... XIFjoiZvXA

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 23, 2017 1:37 pm

mastermechanic5 wrote:I found some Infineon FF1400R12IP4 modules on eBay, would these work?

Here's a datasheet:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... XIFjoiZvXA
I think its time you start your own thread. Lets not mess up Pauls thread anymore.

Sorry Paul.

Also I have been burned MANY MANY times with counterfeit EBAY parts. In fact it ended up being cheaper to get NEW OEM parts then all the money wasted on Ebay fake parts. I would not waste you time with ebay. This is not something that will be cheep. Remember what paul and I have designed is tuned to a specific part and when you try something else with a different rating and or a different layout all the "tuning" goes out the window.

If I had to guess this will take you 1-3 years of buying and wrecking stuff or 1-3 years of reading and understanding to learn how to make your own...
Otherwise you can copy what is already working from someone else.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by mastermechanic5 » Sep 24, 2017 10:27 am

Yeah I should, sorry Paul I didn't mean for this to turn into a lengthy discussion on your thread.

I was looking at surplus parts on ebay, but maybe its best that I avoid ebay. I know that its not going to be cheap or easy. I'll have to keep on doing research and experimenting. Hopefully with enough dedication I can achieve my goals.

Thanks again for you help

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Inducter » Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am

Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm


If you go for 800v I would be SUPER careful that's kill me now kill me later voltage.
With all due respect, the voltage doesn't kill. It's the current that kills, and low frequency. Nikola Tesla demonstrated that back in 19th century.

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Punx0r » Mar 11, 2018 2:39 pm

...and the (lethal in this case) current is the solely determined by the voltage :roll:

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by SlowCo » Mar 11, 2018 3:50 pm

Inducter wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am
Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm


If you go for 800v I would be SUPER careful that's kill me now kill me later voltage.
With all due respect, the voltage doesn't kill. It's the current that kills, and low frequency. Nikola Tesla demonstrated that back in 19th century.
Welcome Inducter.
You might want to read Arlo1's threads before making a fool of yourself. You've only been here for 4 posts and maybe much better skilled than any of the experts here. But starting off so condescending on this forum isn't the best way "in"...
I like Arlo's project with the Nissan Leaf drive train in an old Honda CRX:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982

If you're so knowledgeable you might be able to assist him with your experience :wink:

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Arlo1 » Mar 11, 2018 6:52 pm

SlowCo wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 3:50 pm
Inducter wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am
Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm


If you go for 800v I would be SUPER careful that's kill me now kill me later voltage.
With all due respect, the voltage doesn't kill. It's the current that kills, and low frequency. Nikola Tesla demonstrated that back in 19th century.
Welcome Inducter.
You might want to read Arlo1's threads before making a fool of yourself. You've only been here for 4 posts and maybe much better skilled than any of the experts here. But starting off so condescending on this forum isn't the best way "in"...
I like Arlo's project with the Nissan Leaf drive train in an old Honda CRX:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982

If you're so knowledgeable you might be able to assist him with your experience :wink:
Thanks SlowCo,

Inducter I have felt more voltage that I want to and it was just a brush against it. Maybe you don't understand the VERY BASIC principals of electricity?? Let me start with this. Voltage is the push. So if you need amps to stop your heart you can do 1 of two things use low voltage with low resistance applied close to the heart. OR you can use higher voltage and let it PUSH its way though your skins resistance AT EASE and kill you. 800V is MORE THEN 10x what is needed to kill a human. And with the wrong circumstances like a cut on each finger LESS THAN 80v will be enough to flow though your blood which has iron in it and stop your heart. But if you don't have cuts on your fingers but you do have 800v in each hand I will assure you will not be a conscious being on this big blue marble for long.
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Inducter » Mar 16, 2018 7:30 am

And what gives you the authority to be a condescending and insulting d*&khead? The number of posts????

I stand behind what I said, and since you, and apparently Arlo too, have zero clue about the current and the voltage, including the difference betwen the two and how they work, but have plenty of posts to feel empowered to insult at leisure while criticising others for much less, I'll leave you to glow in your self-engranding stupidity.

You know that the voltage and the current attract the flies, when they produce the light.

But they are not the only thing that attract the flies. You too attract the flies.

As I am sure you are intellectually insufficiently blessed to catch my drift - pun completely accidental - I'll give you a clue. Unlike honey, you are emitting a foul smell.

Now apologise or feel free to never again respond to my comments.

{quote=SlowCo post_id=1364080 time=1520801407 user_id=41422]
Inducter wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am
Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm


If you go for 800v I would be SUPER careful that's kill me now kill me later voltage.
With all due respect, the voltage doesn't kill. It's the current that kills, and low frequency. Nikola Tesla demonstrated that back in 19th century.
Welcome Inducter.
You might want to read Arlo1's threads before making a fool of yourself. You've only been here for 4 posts and maybe much better skilled than any of the experts here. But starting off so condescending on this forum isn't the best way "in"...
I like Arlo's project with the Nissan Leaf drive train in an old Honda CRX:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982

If you're so knowledgeable you might be able to assist him with your experience :wink:
[/quote]

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by SlowCo » Mar 16, 2018 7:43 am

I wasn't trying to insult you Inducter. Just pointing out that the way you attack people in one of your first posts might not be the nicest way to come "on board". Constructive criticism or expert help is always appreciated. But now I see that is not your goal here.
My apologies everyone, I'll stop feeding the troll so that this thread can get on track again... :roll:

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Re: Nissan Leaf Motor test with DIY controller

Post by Inducter » Mar 16, 2018 7:57 am

Thank you for your response Arlo. interesting view on voltage. However, voltage is the difference between the potentials, if you wish to talk about the basics. The current is the "push" as you so colourfully call it.

I find it entertaining to find out that someone who is capable of designing a converter and is profficient in discrete elements, doesn't know the basics. The 800 volts may kill you even at low amperage, but it would take a long time. Just ask the executioners in the usa, performing the inhumane executions.

little bit of analogy, which I fear now may be lost on you but will try anyway. Voltage is like a waterfall. It can be high but you may survive the fall down the flow. You may also die, if the waterfall (the difference between the potentials, the voltage) is high enough, even if the current is ver low. ngels Falls in venezuela. Nearly a kilometre high, a trickle of current.

The current, on the other hand, will kill you even in a perfectly horizontal flow, as long as it is sufficiently strong.

That is why the flow of electrons is called "current".

If you still do not understand the difference, get two rats and electrocute one with 1860V at 7.5A, as used for electric chair executions in the usa, and and the other with 1860A, at 7.5V.

See what happens next and then we can continue debate about your "basics", and who needs to learn them.
Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 6:52 pm
SlowCo wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 3:50 pm
Inducter wrote:
Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am
Arlo1 wrote:
Mar 08, 2016 2:18 pm


If you go for 800v I would be SUPER careful that's kill me now kill me later voltage.
With all due respect, the voltage doesn't kill. It's the current that kills, and low frequency. Nikola Tesla demonstrated that back in 19th century.
Welcome Inducter.
You might want to read Arlo1's threads before making a fool of yourself. You've only been here for 4 posts and maybe much better skilled than any of the experts here. But starting off so condescending on this forum isn't the best way "in"...
I like Arlo's project with the Nissan Leaf drive train in an old Honda CRX:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=63982

If you're so knowledgeable you might be able to assist him with your experience :wink:
Thanks SlowCo,

Inducter I have felt more voltage that I want to and it was just a brush against it. Maybe you don't understand the VERY BASIC principals of electricity?? Let me start with this. Voltage is the push. So if you need amps to stop your heart you can do 1 of two things use low voltage with low resistance applied close to the heart. OR you can use higher voltage and let it PUSH its way though your skins resistance AT EASE and kill you. 800V is MORE THEN 10x what is needed to kill a human. And with the wrong circumstances like a cut on each finger LESS THAN 80v will be enough to flow though your blood which has iron in it and stop your heart. But if you don't have cuts on your fingers but you do have 800v in each hand I will assure you will not be a conscious being on this big blue marble for long.
Last edited by Inducter on Mar 16, 2018 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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