300hp single seat off road buggy project

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Ecobogan   100 W

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300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 15 2018 5:29am

Hello everyone,
After a wee hiatus I'm very glad to be back in the never stagnant surrounds of ES... with a new project. I'm very interested in your thoughts on a netgain warp9 alternative. Have been looking into AM racing's 250-90, Plettenberg's nova 150 ,even dual tp100's etc etc. The output specs of these motors is very varied but gives an idea.
The buggy, bought as an unfinished build, currently runs a Kawasaki ZRX 1200 with 125hp/100nm and will weigh in at about 450kg. The reasons for leaning towards the warp9 are primarily reliability and cost, a friend has a 750kg 12 second street car running a single warp 9 and is a very reliable and potent vehicle. So in a nutshell the inline 4 will be sold and the elec motor will be directly coupled to an IRS diff and custom axles. I understand fully that 300hp and bags of torque is massive overkill in a 450kg vehicle but that is the point...budget of around 20k and appreciate any input. Thanks again Rich

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 15 2018 5:33am

Screenshot_20180715-203154.png
Screenshot_20180715-203154.png (226.38 KiB) Viewed 2844 times
While this isn't the machine, it's very similar

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 15 2018 6:11am

I wrote this in a bit of a hurry and need to add that the app 20k budget will include a 2k zilla, battery pack and of course motor. Thank you

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Hillhater » Jul 15 2018 6:57am

What sort of run time are you planning for ?
Unless you are just doing sand drag racing , 300 hp for racing any length of time, will require a lot of battery .
Total Weight may be an issue ?
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 15 2018 9:46am

Yes run time can be down to a few minutes...at least in the beginning. This is just for recreation really. Basically interested in developing a vehicle that'd be more 'fun' than a turboed Hayabusa engined equivalent. More so it'd be quiet and the wildlife around my place would appreciate it. A run time of 15 minutes at a nasty pace would be sufficient. Would a warp9, a 2k zilla and 2 or 3kwr of nanotech lipoly be a start?

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by amberwolf » Jul 15 2018 3:10pm

Have you seen Oatnet's project?
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=50717
Might give you some ideas. :)

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Hillhater » Jul 15 2018 6:13pm

Ecobogan wrote:
Jul 15 2018 9:46am
A run time of 15 minutes at a nasty pace would be sufficient. Would a warp9, a 2k zilla and 2 or 3kwr of nanotech lipoly be a start?
300 hp/200kw for 15min is a lot even in bursts.
At 50% duty ratio that would need 25 kWh of 8-10 C capable battery. ( 2 x Volt packs ?)
With more restraint ( fewer bursts of nasty ) you could say 10 kWh, but then it needs to be 20C capable ( good lipo ?)
But 3 kWh of even 65C Nanotech, isnt going to last more than 5 mins !.... :? :(
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 16 2018 8:02am

Thanks for all the replies guys, great stuff.Yes I had a squizz through oatnets build thread quite a parallel there hardware wise... couldn't find a tyre shredding or 0-100 time vid though. Is there one about? Very cool and über detailed build I must say. The whole battery caper is one I'm prepared for, easily the most expensive component. About 10 kwr is probably on the money
Do you guys know if jonescg or ripperton are still making batteries?

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Hillhater » Jul 16 2018 5:12pm

Drop them a PM and ask.
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by litespeed » Jul 16 2018 5:33pm

Yes Jones is making batteries. I’m thinking 10kw of LiPo might run over your budget.

We have another here wanting to electrify a Honda Pilot FL400R....which would also be super cool. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=95222

My old Drakart back in the day ate motor bike powered single seat cars for breakfast running a rotax 600 twin 110 hp CVT with 16” of wheel travel. Most fun a man can have with out a woman.....for some even with! :D

Tom
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 18 2018 7:20am

Thanks again for your replies. I'm fairly set on using a lipoly battery pack for size, weight and high discharge reasons but am certainly open to suggestions.
So 10 kwr 25c + is the aim at this point. I don't have the buggy in front of me at the moment but the battery compartment area is tight. They can be split into packs of varying proportions and set up in different positions around the vehicle of course. Being 'surrounded' by potentially volatile lipoly is something I'd like to get right....I've had a lipo explosion before and it was memorable. So will be going for the highest C rating I can afford...for that reason alone ;)
Tell me what you think of this-- 7x6s gives 155.4 nominal voltage, 13 of those packs at 5ah each gives 65ah which is 10.1kwr. This is 91 individual 5ah 25c/35c burst 6s packs at $86 ea would be $7826 off the shelf from hobby king. If this gave me 15 minutes of hellishing nasty run time I'd be more than happy. Naturally there are a myriad of (better) alternatives.
A warp 9 will produce 400hp for a few seconds and 300hp for about 20 seconds,this is what I'm trying to achieve. A warp 7 or similar would be more suitable as 400hp in a 450kg vehiclele is pushing the ridiculous. However ridiculous is what gets attention in the world of hi performance and here in Australia it's petrol petrol petrol very few understand that an electric powered buggy could give Hayabusa powered counterpart a royal flogging.
I'm not being an idiot here just merely wanting to demonstrate an alternative.
Hillhater, litespeed, amberwolf thanks for your help thus far not to mention everyone else on my previous build. I'll contact jonescg and ripperton as well.
I'm dead ass keen to get this project up and going, I know it'll work

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Jul 18 2018 6:18pm

Meant to add too that finding any info on a warp7 is proving challenging and jonescg is doing 30/60c lipo for app $1150/kWh....still have yet to touch base with him. Cheers

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by stephan7 » Oct 22 2018 2:16pm

Ecobogan wrote:
Jul 18 2018 7:20am
Thanks again for your replies. I'm fairly set on using a lipoly battery pack for size, weight and high discharge reasons but am certainly open to suggestions.
So 10 kwr 25c + is the aim at this point. I don't have the buggy in front of me at the moment but the battery compartment area is tight. They can be split into packs of varying proportions and set up in different positions around the vehicle of course. Being 'surrounded' by potentially volatile lipoly is something I'd like to get right....I've had a lipo explosion before and it was memorable. So will be going for the highest C rating I can afford...for that reason alone ;)
Tell me what you think of this-- 7x6s gives 155.4 nominal voltage, 13 of those packs at 5ah each gives 65ah which is 10.1kwr. This is 91 individual 5ah 25c/35c burst 6s packs at $86 ea would be $7826 off the shelf from hobby king. If this gave me 15 minutes of hellishing nasty run time I'd be more than happy. Naturally there are a myriad of (better) alternatives.
A warp 9 will produce 400hp for a few seconds and 300hp for about 20 seconds,this is what I'm trying to achieve. A warp 7 or similar would be more suitable as 400hp in a 450kg vehiclele is pushing the ridiculous. However ridiculous is what gets attention in the world of hi performance and here in Australia it's petrol petrol petrol very few understand that an electric powered buggy could give Hayabusa powered counterpart a royal flogging.
I'm not being an idiot here just merely wanting to demonstrate an alternative.
Hillhater, litespeed, amberwolf thanks for your help thus far not to mention everyone else on my previous build. I'll contact jonescg and ripperton as well.
I'm dead ass keen to get this project up and going, I know it'll work
Hi Ecobogan,
I love the idea of the lightweight buggy. I’m thinking about something similar for a kit car.

To test your numbers, 91 5Ah 25C/35C batteries give 10kWh indeed and the way you plan to stack them, 65Ah @155.4V too. Weight is nice too - about 60kg.

But, 400hp motor, or 300kW @155.4V would be taking 1930 amps. So even assuming 100% efficiency of the motor and inverter, sounds more like 2 minutes of full power action.

What other alternatives have you considered for batteries? I’m researching the subject at the moment. A lot of batteries people mention have been around for 4-5 years. I wonder, any new technology that appeared in the last 1-2 years?

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Hillhater » Oct 22 2018 4:01pm

stephan7 wrote:
Oct 22 2018 2:16pm

What other alternatives have you considered for batteries? I’m researching the subject at the moment. A lot of batteries people mention have been around for 4-5 years. I wonder, any new technology that appeared in the last 1-2 years?
You wont find significantly higher Energy density, or power capacity than RCLipo.
But remember you rarely use max power continuously, its more like a 10-20% thing ,...... unless you are racing or bogged in sand/mud. :shock:
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by jonescg » Oct 22 2018 8:48pm

Ecobogan. My kind of guy!

Yeah I'm still building LiPo packs. They haven't got any cheaper but they certainly have the grunt. If short run times and high power are what you're chasing, Lipo is the best tool for the job.

Should point out - LiPo is 9050135 pouch cells with a lithium cobalt oxide cathode and carbon anode. NMC versions of the same cell format is out there, and possibly a bit cheaper but they will be at least half the power.

I put blocks of 12s10p together, but no reason it couldn't be 12s12p. Then 4 of these in series gives you the 10 kWh you're chasing.

It will take up a fair bit of space, and weigh in at about 77 kg.

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Farfle » Oct 23 2018 4:03am

If you need a Zilla I have one for cheap. Shoot me a message.
Test Review Revise Repeat

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Oct 27 2018 4:54am

Thanks for the replies guys and am in the process of flogging the funds out of some cheeky nearby institution. The build is still very much at the academic stage and I'm going to be pretty cautious on how the 20k gets spread out.
At this point it's looking like a Jonescg battery build consisting of 2 5kwr packs one mounted each side of the central chassis, a 2j Zilla and a dirty old warp9.
The buggy currently runs Holden Commodore stub axles and I'm considering running a Commodore diff, drive shafts and Porsche 930 cv's. The 930 cv's allow the 380 mm travel and are commonly seen on vehicles of this type. This should be a relatively cheap and reliable rear end.
The warp9 could perhaps be mounted directly to the diff yoke as one unit.
Any ideas on a 2 or 3 speed box would be well listened to though weight and space will start to become a drama.
A wye/delta wound motor of this type would be ideal.
Game on.

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Oct 27 2018 6:12am

Screenshot_20181027-220021.png
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Oct 27 2018 8:03am

Some pics
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by litespeed » Oct 27 2018 9:24am

I think I’ll vote to go single reduction to drive. 930 or the smaller Audi 5000 CV’s work well with a lot of deflection, that’s what the Drakarts used with 16” of travel. Although if using these (read either!) in the sand the boots get eaten up quickly.....it’s how I got Indy car pitting fast at changing CV boots. “0 to back in the sand” cleaned, new grease and cv boot in 15 mins! 😬 looks like an excellent time!

Tom
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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by SlowCo » Oct 27 2018 9:45am

Or use a Nissan Leaf drive train in the rear. Paul and Arlo are building and selling components to control the electric motor.

Arlo already reached >300HP in his Honda CRX:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982



Paul is here: viewtopic.php?t=75863
His shop:https://pandspowerelectronics.ecwid.com ... ort=normal

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Oct 27 2018 5:14pm

The buggy looks a little sparse currently with some surface rust etc but after a hearty sandblast and respray will come up fine.
I couldn't upload the photos in any form other than screenshots even though most were under the 512kb limit for some bent reason.
The engine bay is quite roomy actually at just over a metre in length from the seat to the rear of the chassis.
The wheel/tyre combo is just to move it around and will be kitted out most likely with 15" mud tyres and Fox air shocks

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by galderdi » Jan 14 2019 1:54am

Hi Eco,

Great to see another Aussie on a similar path. My project may interest you as some of the figures are comparable.

Mine is a 500KG buggy with 7KWh of batteries and generally around 90Kw of power. It usually lasts for around 6 or 7 x 60-80 second blasts at full acceleration. Otherwise I need to charge between runs to keep it going beyond that.

Performance is great from 0-100kmph but extra power would be handy to get better acceleration from 80 onwards.

You can see all the photos and videos by searching Full Charge Motorsport.

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by galderdi » Jan 14 2019 2:02am

Also some more food for thought. I run a full 5 speed gearbox. I find it is great for my setup but I wouldn't necessary recommend it for all cases. If you are planning on running a Dunnydore diff then a full gearbox would be bulky and heavy. But maybe a trasfer case would be a good compromise? You may not be able to change on the fly but at least you can select ratios to suit the conditions. But then again it sounds like you'll end up with 300horses in a 500kg vehicle.....you won't need gears.

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Re: 300hp single seat off road buggy project

Post by Ecobogan » Mar 02 2019 12:20am

Thanks for replying mate, very cool car too. Especially like the single seater which I believe was the 2nd incarnation.
As you'd expect I have some questions and you don't have to answer all of them!

- What kind torque figures are you getting at 90kw and at a guess what would the 0-100 time be? Your car looks quick but hard to get a bead on how quick.

- How heavy, physical size, weight, cost and C rating is the battery pack?

I was/am planning on a warp9 but would you suggest anything else in that same rough price range?
The need to get over 100kph isn't a huge one due to it being a dirt machine.
However the build premise is one of it being somewhat overpowered so a 2000amp controller and highish C rated batteries are certainly desirable.

Thanks again and look forward to hearing your thoughts on all this

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