Go Kart Update

Electric cars, trucks, ATVs, NEVs - things bigger than a motorcycle.
Upperfoot   10 W

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Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07 2018 3:29pm

Hello guys!

I've been looking to build an Electric Go Kart to compete against Petrol Go Karts in this class https://www.rotax-kart.com/en/Products/ ... AX-DD2-evo

There are a few brands I have been looking at.

http://lynchmotors.co.uk/technical_elec ... otors.html
https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm
http://www.motenergy.com/
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rot ... motor.html (Throwing this in the ring because I'm unsure of it's viability, it's for RC purposes but two in parallel may be close in terms of power).

But I am a bit lost as to what is the best motor for my needs, what is the best in terms of the best bang for my buck, and what could compete with the above?

If you guys have any idea or helpful links to help me along with my journey it would be very much appreciated.

Cheers!

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07 2018 4:13pm

Read this thread for inspiration and data:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3&start=75

His latest set up is with a Zero (e-motorcycle) motor and forced air cooling. It will be difficult to get enough range (battery) for the longer races.

Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07 2018 5:06pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07 2018 4:13pm
Read this thread for inspiration and data:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3&start=75

His latest set up is with a Zero (e-motorcycle) motor and forced air cooling. It will be difficult to get enough range (battery) for the longer races.
Thanks SlowCo, looks interesting! Did he use the 10kw Goldenmotor for his first iteration?

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07 2018 6:22pm

start reading the thread on page one...

Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07 2018 6:25pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07 2018 6:22pm
start reading the thread on page one...
I did, GM could have meant anything.
Last edited by Upperfoot on Aug 26 2018 1:41pm, edited 1 time in total.

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by SlowCo » Jan 07 2018 6:38pm

I wrote that because my link starts at page 4. My mistake that I didn't put in the link starting from the first page. If you did read that page you can see that it is indeed a Golden Motor. And if you read further you'll see that he finally uses a Zero motor to keep up with the fast two strokes. As that is what you want to do just forget about the Golden Motor and go straight to the Zero motor or similar output electric motors.
From the thread I linked to you can see what you need to build to keep up with the Rotax Max motors. If you have the technical ability and budget to build something similar you should be able to compete with the DD2's. Good luck and keep this thread updated with your progress as I love to follow the build and help if I can (no expert myself I'm afraid... :wink: ).

Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 07 2018 7:09pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 07 2018 6:38pm
I wrote that because my link starts at page 4. My mistake that I didn't put in the link starting from the first page. If you did read that page you can see that it is indeed a Golden Motor. And if you read further you'll see that he finally uses a Zero motor to keep up with the fast two strokes. As that is what you want to do just forget about the Golden Motor and go straight to the Zero motor or similar output electric motors.
From the thread I linked to you can see what you need to build to keep up with the Rotax Max motors. If you have the technical ability and budget to build something similar you should be able to compete with the DD2's. Good luck and keep this thread updated with your progress as I love to follow the build and help if I can (no expert myself I'm afraid... :wink: ).
Ah brilliant, thanks for the information! Sorry for the comment.

I found this one (75-7 - 54BHP) -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motor-electr ... Swp7taUSii

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/high-res ... 75-7-motor

Looks good! I'll have to keep my eye on these motors, looks as though they aren't very commonplace, any idea where they might sell them other than second hand?

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 11 2018 1:14pm

Having a bit of trouble sourcing the 75-7 motors in the EU (UK), so I'm looking at alternatives.

The ME1306 looks like a decent motor, apparently it's the successor to the ME0913 which was used in the earlier Zero motorcycles.

Anyone had any experience with this motor before? Or know of any other recommendations.

This is the frame I bought for future reference (Senior class) https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Octane-Wild-Ka ... 2622941037

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 16 2018 4:20pm

Bought the Gen4 Size 6 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEVCON-Gen4- ... 2336823121), Looking through a few resources reveals I need to get an IXXAT USB to CAN v1.5/1.6 (old version), the DVT software (which runs on the old version), and when I choose a motor the DCF file to setup the correct configuration.

Any idea where I can get the DVT software? Unsure whether I need to contact Sevcon for a license or not for the old version of the IXXAT, or if it's only for the v2.

Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 18 2018 5:32am

Bit of an informatory post, contacted Sevcon (which is now BorgWarner), and the Model that I have (Part Number ends in 202) is a Sine/Cosine model with the M8 bolts and Bussmann fuse not included.

They also verified that 201 is a non-sine/non-cosine model and 203 is a Sine/Cosine model with the M8 bolts and Bussmann fuse included, this is indicated by the Part Number, not the Serial number (as a few people are confused about this and there is some misinformation floating about).

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Hillhater » Jan 21 2018 5:44pm

Incase you had not already realised, one of your main issues is going to be battery capacity/power/weight.
Obviously you need a powerful motor to get the pace to hang with the DD2s, but that motor power needs a powerful battery to feed it.
There are plenty of powerful cells, but the more power you use, the more capacity (and weight) you need to carry.
You will have to set yourself a "run time" target (minutes or #laps) in order to estimate how much battery capacity you will need.
It will be a compromise between enough capacity to last the race length, verses the extra weight (and consequent handling /performance handicap), that a heavier battery pack gives.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by Upperfoot » Jan 22 2018 2:52am

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 21 2018 5:44pm
Incase you had not already realised, one of your main issues is going to be battery capacity/power/weight.
Obviously you need a powerful motor to get the pace to hang with the DD2s, but that motor power needs a powerful battery to feed it.
There are plenty of powerful cells, but the more power you use, the more capacity (and weight) you need to carry.
You will have to set yourself a "run time" target (minutes or #laps) in order to estimate how much battery capacity you will need.
It will be a compromise between enough capacity to last the race length, verses the extra weight (and consequent handling /performance handicap), that a heavier battery pack gives.
It has been something I've considered, but I'm tackling one hurdle at a time, Nuxland has been a great resource, using his videos as a frame of reference as well https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxfgRW ... n9u8BtGXow

He mentioned that motor temperature is also a big problem, something which held him back (limited the motor output to 60%)

It's going to be a difficult project, but it will be worth the effort at the end!

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garolittle   1 kW

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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by garolittle » Apr 04 2018 10:41pm

Any updates on this project? Post some pictures when you have time. Thanks.
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Re: Go Kart Motor to compete against DD2 Petrol Motor

Post by themelon » Apr 11 2018 11:31am

It's to bad something like the smaller one. It is the motor out of a first gen GM eAssist mild hybrid platform. It is likely under-powered at 15kW:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/downl ... &id=232134

This one would be awesome but it is way to heavy. Chevy Spark EV trans-axle, 100kW, 400ftlb and somewhere in the range of 120-130lbs. But it is fairly compact.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/downl ... &id=232135

Both are liquid cooled, the eAssist one from the factory runs on a 32S battery and is induction while the Spark on 96S and is perm mag.

Perhaps more than one of the eAssist motors? They are not that much bugger than a regular alternator, perhaps 2x the volume. YOu can get them almost any day, in the US at least, for under $100.
Attachments
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Upperfoot   10 W

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Go Kart Update

Post by Upperfoot » Aug 24 2018 2:04pm

Finally got the beast running!



Setup so far;
  • Motor - Motenergy ME1616
  • Controller - Sevcon Gen4 Size
  • Batteries - 16 Turnigy Graphene 8000mah 6s 15c for 100v at 32AH (going to be purchasing an additional 8 for 48AH)
  • Battery Wiring - 50mm2 cables + XT90 Connectors
  • Kart chassis - Wildkart
  • Motor Bracket - Custom 6mm 304 Stainless
Charging setup;
  • 4 x ISDT T6 600w charger.
  • 2 x 1500w 25v Power Supplies
  • 4 x XT90 Amass V2 Parallel Charging Board
Things left to do/get;
  • Switch forward / reverse
  • Chain tensioner (attached to motor bracket)
  • Radiator + 12v Pump + Reservoir
  • Complete battery box with separators + mount it.
  • Cable management
  • Connect throttle pot to foot throttle
  • Complete charging station
Want to thank Travis for helping me out on this!

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garolittle   1 kW

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by garolittle » Aug 26 2018 7:02pm

:shock: that thing is a monster. Awesome project. More videos please. :D
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garolittle   1 kW

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by garolittle » Aug 26 2018 10:59pm

What size wires (to/from charge controller) are you using? Very cool project.
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Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by Upperfoot » Aug 27 2018 4:53am

About 50mm2 so just under 1/0 (53mm2), from the individual batteries they are 10awg a piece and I have 6 XT90 connectors per series run that are soldered / crimped into the 50mm2 cable, so 6 LiPO batteries are in parallel and 4 of those 6 in series (6 x 8AH = 48AH, 6S 25.2v x 4 = 100.8v)

At the moment Im trying to work out the best way of mounting the battery box that doesnt involve ratchet straps!

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garolittle   1 kW

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by garolittle » Aug 27 2018 9:18am

That is awesome. Keep us posted.
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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by frodus » Aug 27 2018 9:30am

This thing is going to absolutely RIP.
Travis

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garolittle   1 kW

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by garolittle » Aug 27 2018 10:32am

frodus wrote:
Aug 27 2018 9:30am
This thing is going to absolutely RIP.
Agreed. You should probably invest in a really good neck brace. The acceleration is going to be crazy. LOL.
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Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by Upperfoot » Aug 27 2018 11:51am

garolittle wrote:
Aug 27 2018 10:32am
frodus wrote:
Aug 27 2018 9:30am
This thing is going to absolutely RIP.
Agreed. You should probably invest in a really good neck brace. The acceleration is going to be crazy. LOL.
Definitely need a good neck brace and helmet, this is the neck brace I was thinking of

http://www.freestylextreme.com/uk/home/ ... ector.aspx

And the helmet.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-SC765-O ... FrH4U7EXNw

Nuxland was the inspiration for me starting my own project, hopefully I can keep pace with his Kart!


Upperfoot   10 W

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by Upperfoot » Sep 01 2018 11:32am



Something has happened to the motor upon spinning it up again, sounds different as if something inside has fallen off and is bouncing around upon spin up, past a certain rpm the noise stops and sounds normal, any ideas?

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by Upperfoot » Oct 26 2018 3:29pm

A few pictures of my updates, almost finished! Just need to hook up the radiator hoses, bit of cable management, and do a mounting plate for my Forward/Reverse, Ignition, Profile and Regen switches!

https://imgur.com/gallery/cZ6upnc

The problem I had above meant I had to replace it, I believe it was faulty bearings but my supplier hasn't confirmed what the cause was exactly.

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Re: Go Kart Update

Post by Quinc » Oct 30 2018 1:25pm

Awesome build!

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