Simple 330V charging circuit

Electric cars, trucks, ATVs, NEVs - things bigger than a motorcycle.
Post Reply
User avatar
megacycle   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1119
Joined: Oct 09 2011 4:41am
Location: South Australia

Simple 330V charging circuit

Post by megacycle » Apr 27 2019 4:43am

I was thinking about this and if and how it could work to fast charge a large Lifepo4 EV pack that has good BMS protection and where there is an ample supply available of say 150A+, 415V, 3phase.

Example 30kW pack at approx 3C in about 20 mins.

Presently only come across this type of charging for small scale wind turbines wound for 3ph and vehicle battery alternators.
Simple 3 phase rectifier for battery charging
HPM5000BGenerator-1.JPG (14.32 KiB) Viewed 377 times
If you've seen it before, the ripple on the rectified dc waveform out, is quite a lot cleaner than a single phase supply due to six sets of interweaving rectified peaks giving this waveform.
The waveform should be further smothed by the battery acting as a very large capacitor.
Rectified dc waveform out from 3 phase supply
power98.gif (22.33 KiB) Viewed 377 times
A possible improvement came to mind in using a 3 phase thyristor or IGBT bridge and a manual or controller circuit to control the voltage across the battery pack.
Thyristor bridge circuit
CR1.JPG (15 KiB) Viewed 377 times
With resulting reduced RMS waveform
RMS voltage reduction by thyristors
593E6FDF-A150-4539-9876-76EAAC45D17E-215_46B3AE99-0419-71F3-ED6EB1A2FEBEDD45.jpeg (28.87 KiB) Viewed 377 times
The voltage out from rectifier would be approximately 330V dc so I was thinking that a pack made up of 330/3.6 fully charged Lifepo4.
92 cells would give approx 3.58V each.
and 30kW/330V approx 90Ah each.

Any thoughts of how crazy šŸ˜ this might be would be appreciated.
Gokart A123 80V
300A Kelly Controller
PM72301 motor

15S lipo
mongoose frame
mini monster controller
500W funboy
Speedict Mecury

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 26927
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Simple 330V charging circuit

Post by amberwolf » Apr 27 2019 2:10pm

If you look around for "bad boy" (badboy) charging / charger you'll find posts and threads and pages about this type of thing, pros, cons, circuits, etc., both here on ES, on DIYElectricCar forums, and other places. Sometimes called "freddy" charger, "poor man" charger, etc.

Some thoughts off the top of my head:
--since there's no current limiting (other than melting point of the wires and components), how do you deal with the problems this causes in the cells? And how do you prevent the wall breaker from popping?
--what happens when the BMS for the pack tries to cut off charging due to HVC, but the ripple goes above and below that?
--what does the ripply voltage do to the BMS electronics?
--what happens during balancing stage, since the ripple will go above and below the voltage needed for this? (is the BMS dumb, or "smart" and getting confused?)
--does the pack actually have enough capacitance to smooth it sufficiently, as it reaches full state?
--how does the pack's constantly changing internal resistance affect the system during charge?
--when the rectifiers fail (from whatever cause), how does the pack react to the raw AC waveform across it? (what kind of fire prevention or containment do you have?)

Other considerations are in the various stuff about bad boy chargers around the web.
one possible websearch:

One previous thread: ... 14&t=90066

FWIW, car alternators do actually have a regulator, as well; they aren't just raw rectified output (though they may still use the FLA battery as a capacitor to filter it, and if the battery goes bad, the resulting AC noise can be heard in sound systems onboard; don't know if it could damage anything).

Post Reply