Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Post Reply
zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:26 am

Hello, I have a kick scooter want to convert to e-scooter. I'm very newbie in RC. So I want to ask some questions:

1. Is belt or chain better?
2. I heard some good review about Racerstar-6368-BRD6368-280KV. What best budget 6S ESC can use with this motor and good for e-scooter? I alreay have 7000mah 6s 40C lipo battery.
3. Is the boat ESC support servo tester as manual throttle?

Some parts I selected:
motor: https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-6368 ... 17657.html
80A ESC: https://www.banggood.com/ZTW-Beatles-50 ... 75917.html
Servo tester: https://www.banggood.com/Servo-Tester-T ... 79862.html

Any suggestions are welcome :)

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:29 pm

I would think an ebike controller with a hall throttle would be safer... that way it is more likely to fail in an "off" position.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23807
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by amberwolf » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:46 pm

Any brushless controller is likely to fail "off", in that if the FETs fail the motor won't be commutated anymore.

A throttle failure on ebike controller has about 33% chance of being full-power (WOT) to the motor; most don't protect against loss of ground on the throttle, which can cause WOT.

A throttle failure on servo throttle, I don't know. I suspect much less, but it depends on how the servo tester is made.


Regarding the OP's questions, I would recommend reading thru other such threads on conversions and upgrades, as there's a lot of good info in them I think you can use.

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:03 am

Amberwolf,

I guess I was thinking a potentiometer failing as opposed to a hall effect throttle. You bring up a great point that if the potentiometer were to fail, who knows what the servo testing board woukd do with it.

I don't think a servo test board with a pot is a viable long term solution for running am e-scooter. The lack of spring action to an off position is dangerous and the fine control of throttle is lacking.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23807
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by amberwolf » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:26 am

No need to use an actual pot on the servotester; wire it out to a pot-based throttle like Magura, or the cheap ones on other scooters, etc.

FWIW, there are a number of controllers (like 4QD) that use pot input that actually detect if the pot is in place or broken, etc. Typically they use something really simple that detects a voltage drop across the pot circuit, and if the pot leads break the current doesn't flow so the voltage drop changes, and the controller shuts down.

User avatar
ElectricGod
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by ElectricGod » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:17 pm

If you are using RC components...which I don't suggest at all, then get a Castle Creations ESC that runs at 12S max. They use decent mosfets and will do what you need reliably. Cheap RC stuff is NOT going to hold up at all...just don't waste your money on them. Also, 6S might sound OK for now, but trust me...it won't be long before you'll want more performance. Just plan for being able to use 12S from the get go. Personally, 48 volts isn't enough IMHO. My low voltage EV runs at 66 volts and does 43mph. Everything else runs at 82 volts or higher. Do yourself a favor and plan ahead for more than 6S.

What kick scooter did you have in mind to base your EV on? I've looked at quite a few and some have more potential than others.

Since you are standing up, a thumb throttle is your best choice. Twist throttles require holding onto a twisting grip and standing up. What you want is your hands planted on the handle bars as much as possible. I've built 2 stand up kick scooters. See the links to them in my signature. I originally used a twist throttle and when I discovered thumb throttles, I never looked back. If you are seated, then a twist throttle is fine. For standing up maximizing stability is your best friend.

Motor KV/RPM is going to possibly get you in trouble. A high Kv motor is going to spin really fast and that means high gearing ratios. If you are doing belt or chain, it's still the exact same issue for gearing. Hi Kv motors work great for small diameter wheels like on a skate board since the motor spins fast and the wheels spin fast too. Any adult sized kick scooter is going to have wheels that are 8" in diameter or so and maybe lots larger. They are going to spin much slower than a skate board at the same speed. The bigger the wheel the slower it spins at the same speed. That means a fast motor needs to be geared down a LOT to get it to drive a large wheel at realistic speeds. You would do better to get a much lower Kv motor so that gearing it down for your kick scooter is less of a problem.

Belt vs chain...
Belt is quiet...really quiet. Depending on the chain option, some is noisier than others. You pretty much have 3 options that will work for whatever you are doing. Bike chain, T8F and 219. For inexpensive EV's, T8f is commonly used. It doesn't come in very many sprocket sizes and you pretty much are going to China/ebay to get it. I started on T8f and it worked well enough for me at first. Bike chain and components are almost always designed for use on bike freewheel threads or bike cartridges. I don't know of anyone that makes motor sprockets that fit bike chain. So then 219...it's strong and probably overkill for your needs. However, I use it exclusively and I can tell you it is really good stuff. Sprockets are readily available in lots of sizes and it's not very expensive. Motor sprockets come in lots of sizes.

Motors...I like Alien Power outrunners. They are generally built with EV use in mind and that means beefier bearings and larger motor shafts and optional halls. Most RC motors are not really intended for EV use and they need to be tougher in order to haul you around.

Any servo controller will work with any RC ESC. With a little adaptation, it can be ran with a hall throttle. Honestly though...ignore anything in RC components and get a real EV grade controller and throttle. It's a far better choice, handles over load conditions better and works directly with a hall throttle.

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:07 pm

Alternatively, if you can get a Hover board motor on there, you're looking at a motor with good torque, 36 volt motor with no belt or chain drive.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 35&t=87537

User avatar
ElectricGod
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by ElectricGod » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:54 pm

Telemachus wrote:Alternatively, if you can get a Hover board motor on there, you're looking at a motor with good torque, 36 volt motor with no belt or chain drive.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 35&t=87537
It fits, but how strong is it going to be? I'm guessing, not very.

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:03 pm

About 12 miles per hour. And that is moving 170 pounds.

zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:37 pm

Is this ESC sensored?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electri ... 1cda498e2a

Can I use sensored ESC with sensorless Motor and vice versa?

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23807
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by amberwolf » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:14 am

After you install sensors in the sensorless motor,
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search
you can use a sensored controller with it.

zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:34 pm

Tks for your link, I'm studying to add hall sensor. Btw, Can anyone recommend ESC for small kick scooter? Can this one good?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-64V ... e4a17ddda9

Can it work with rc lipo battery?

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:10 pm

what country are you in? I got a 36V one off Ebay in CA for $16 and it works great.

zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:15 pm

Telemachus wrote:what country are you in? I got a 36V one off Ebay in CA for $16 and it works great.
VietNam. Is it work with lipo? 36V ESC mean it will work with 10s lipo battery?

I'm using 6368 280kv motor. It work well with RC 90A ESC and 6s battery. Now I want attach sensor to my motor and run 12s. What equivalent electric scooter controller which can work with my motor and 12s battery?

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm

Any 48V e-bike controller should work with a 12S lipo, you just might hit the LVC of the controller earlier than you would with a 13S li-ion.

There are sensorless controllers, and there are plusses and minuses to both. As I understand it, main advantage to sensors is low speed stability:

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ma ... controller

zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:23 pm

This e-biker controller wattage is 350W

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/350W-36 ... 6282e176f2

My 6368 brushless motor spec at 36V is 1152W

https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-6368 ... rehouse=CN

Should e-biker 350W is too low for 1152W motor?

Telemachus
10 W
10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by Telemachus » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:26 pm

I can't read Chinese, but it looks like the controller you linked to will supply a max of 16A. If that motor can really take 35A, you are going to need something beefier (and most likely lipos, no li-ion).

zeroonea
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Convert stand-up kick scooter to e-scooter (newbie)

Post by zeroonea » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 am

How calculate motor A? I have a 90A rc esc, it work good with the motor at 6s. Here is the 800W ebiker controller

https://www.banggood.com/48V-to-64V-800 ... rehouse=CN

It say 38A. How 38A of that controller compare with 90A RC ESC. Because 90A rc esc is very small compare with ebiker controller

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest