Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

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omadawn   10 W

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Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Jul 21 2019 5:56pm

Hi
24 V, 10.4 Ah, lithium, brushless 500W motor, weight 20 kg (with me on 92 kg), after 5 complete charges battery only lasts for 15 km ? can it be possible?

Can it be a badly adjusted brakes from origin? speed never reached maximum (25 km/h) either, only 20...

thanks

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by flat tire » Jul 21 2019 6:51pm

If brakes are badly adjusted you will feel it moving the bike by hand or foot.

More likely you are riding faster than on the first ride and getting less range cuz of that. Batteries also lose capacity with charge cycles and age. If you have counterfeit batteries this problem is exacerbated.

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by e-beach » Jul 21 2019 7:57pm

omadawn wrote:
Jul 21 2019 5:56pm
Hi 24 V, 10.4 Ah, lithium, brushless 500W motor, weight 20 kg (with me on 92 kg), after 5 complete charges battery only lasts for 15 km ? can it be possible? Can it be a badly adjusted brakes from origin? speed never reached maximum (25 km/h) either, only 20...thanks
Lets see....24v X 10.4 Ah = (about) 249.6 Watt hours. 246.6 / 25 watt hours per mile ( 25 watt hours per mile is sort of a standard around ES) = 9.9 miles or about 15.93 Kilometers.

So the answer to your question is yes. 15 km for your battery sounds normal to me. It also depends on how much you and your bike weigh, how fast you ride, air temperature, wind conditions, hills, how much you pedal, and any other thing that adds to the overall drain of your battery.

If you ride slower and pedal more, you can go farther. If you don't already have a way to meter how many watt hours you are using, get a Cycle Analyst from ebikes.ca or an RC Watt meter from ebay (if your budget demands a less costly meter.) So you know how many watts you are using.

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quote: "This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." --- Chris Erskine

Current build: Liahona w/ cheap front suspension and suspension seat post. Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front hub motor. 15ah Headway triangle mounted pack. Tronsung 30 amp,

Previous Build:1992 Trek Antelope 800 - Bone Crusher (no suspension) - Yescomusa 800 watt 36 volt front wheel kit. Don't do it! Get suspension!!!

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omadawn   10 W

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Jul 22 2019 9:52am

ets see....24v X 10.4 Ah = (about) 249.6 Watt hours. 246.6 / 25 watt hours per mile ( 25 watt hours per mile is sort of a standard around ES) = 9.9 miles or about 15.93 Kilometers
Full charged are 29.2 V, so Isn't that 29.2x10.4 ?
Anyway it's only 20 km very far from what the manual says (35 to 40)

Keeps being strange for a new battery, at the maximum speed they are correct, I reached 23 km/h
If brakes are badly adjusted you will feel it moving the bike by hand or foot.
Placed the Scooter upwards, rolled the wheel with my hand. It rolls free for half a second and stops (probably has to do with the inertia of the motor?). Also rolling free the wheels are giving the 23 km/h speed

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by e-beach » Jul 22 2019 11:51am

omadawn wrote:
Jul 22 2019 9:52am
Full charged are 29.2 V, so Isn't that 29.2x10.4 ?
Well, yes and no. The full charge of the cell uses the top of it charge very swiftly and this the "nominal" voltage the cell is designed to be. As an example, each cell might be 4.2v fully charged but 3.6 nominal. So one really has to go with the nominal voltage when calculating watt hours for your batter pack and know that it might go a little farther.
Anyway it's only 20 km very far from what the manual says (35 to 40)
Manufactures are always overstating what they have. If the manufacture says 35 to 40, then they are calculating a slow speed under perfect conditions with the rider pedaling. You can go 30 to 40 kilometers on your bike. If under optimal conditions, you allow the motor to push at about 8 to 10 km/h and the ad any more speed with your pedaling.

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quote: "This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." --- Chris Erskine

Current build: Liahona w/ cheap front suspension and suspension seat post. Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front hub motor. 15ah Headway triangle mounted pack. Tronsung 30 amp,

Previous Build:1992 Trek Antelope 800 - Bone Crusher (no suspension) - Yescomusa 800 watt 36 volt front wheel kit. Don't do it! Get suspension!!!

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by e-beach » Jul 22 2019 11:55am

Ok, one more thing. Do you know your battery pack is charged and balanced? When you charge it do you leave it on the charger over night?

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quote: "This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." --- Chris Erskine

Current build: Liahona w/ cheap front suspension and suspension seat post. Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front hub motor. 15ah Headway triangle mounted pack. Tronsung 30 amp,

Previous Build:1992 Trek Antelope 800 - Bone Crusher (no suspension) - Yescomusa 800 watt 36 volt front wheel kit. Don't do it! Get suspension!!!

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omadawn   10 W

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Jul 22 2019 12:07pm

Ok, one more thing. Do you know your battery pack is charged and balanced? When you charge it do you leave it on the charger over night?
Yes it is full charged always (LCD shows 29.7 v).
Another strange thing is that the total distance meter on the LCD differs a lot from the partial one, better meaning:

Made a tour that shown 1,4 + 1,6 km, then the total counter shown 67 from the previous 65.
Repeated the tour again, same results. Google maps shows that I made 2 km on each tour, not 3...

Your statement leads to another complicated issue of the high voltage reached by the battery, being discussed in the last posts here viewtopic.php?f=35&t=100375 , if you´d like to take a look... :wink:

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omadawn   10 W

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Sep 09 2019 6:27am

<r><QUOTE><s>
</s>Manufactures are always overstating what they have. If the manufacture says 35 to 40, then they are calculating a slow speed under perfect conditions with the rider pedaling. You can go 30 to 40 kilometers on your bike. If under optimal conditions, you allow the motor to push at about 8 to 10 km/h and the ad any more speed with your pedaling.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Spinning the motor on max power, stand up from the ground, wheel running free, I got only 22 km/h instead of the 25.<br/>
<br/>
Tried to made a fast spin on the wheel using my hand, and it stops on less than a second, perhaps to much inertia?... Also by rotating it very slow I sense some intermittent friction...<br/>
<br/>
Can it be an out of tune break? I do not know how to tune it perfectly, but I start to thing the problem might be here.</r>
scoot.jpg
scoot.jpg (36.73 KiB) Viewed 170 times

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   1 kW

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Sep 09 2019 10:08pm

omadawn wrote:
Sep 09 2019 6:27am

Can it be an out of tune break? I do not know how to tune it perfectly, but I start to thing the problem might be here.</r>
scoot.jpg
Of course it can be that, it's one of the most common reasons people see their range decreasing. A deflated tire is also an other very common cause, or even a bad bearing (less likely but it happens too).

It's very easy to know if your brake is the cause, just give the cable lots of slack, or, even better, completely remove the brake and see if you get any difference in range. Of course, drive somewhere you're not likely to need the brake, for obvious safety reasons.
:bolt: :bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W 72V40Ah A123 cells : :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=90032

:bolt: :bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=75912

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omadawn   10 W

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Sep 10 2019 6:50am

just give the cable lots of slack
Rotated a few turns the withe nut and...voila!

We were right, now running freely with the wheel up the ground, it gives me 26 km/h. The marker never passed above 22 before!

Still don't know how to adjust/tune it right.
This is not like in a bike, and also it's all covered by the motor...

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   1 kW

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Sep 10 2019 8:50pm

omadawn wrote:
Sep 10 2019 6:50am
just give the cable lots of slack
Rotated a few turns the withe nut and...voila!

We were right, now running freely with the wheel up the ground, it gives me 26 km/h. The marker never passed above 22 before!

Still don't know how to adjust/tune it right.
This is not like in a bike, and also it's all covered by the motor...
Great news, Yay!

Those drum brakes systems are shitty... I don't think you can replace it easily with a disk.
Do you at least have a front brake?
Meanwhile, try to find the sweet spot. Turn the nut until you can feel the wheel very, very slightly rubbing on the brake... and hope that your brake lever won't have miles of dead travel.
:bolt: :bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W 72V40Ah A123 cells : :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=90032

:bolt: :bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=75912

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omadawn   10 W

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Re: Max range 40 km, after 5 charges only 15 ???

Post by omadawn » Sep 11 2019 3:07am

Nope, no front brake.
and hope that your brake lever won't have miles of dead travel.
What do you mean? (65 km were made that way, but the break lever worked fine)

Also, do you know what's the other nut for? (The gold one). Probably just for mounting/dismounting...

Thanks

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